Japan to Quit Pacifism? (Full Version)

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Footslogger -> Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/17/2015 1:44:42 PM)

Interesting Article and a cool video about a Japanese Pilot during WWII.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/16/asia/japan-military-constitution/index.html

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Yaab -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/17/2015 3:21:42 PM)

"In war there are no humans rights. Everybody is just a weapon".

Now, that sent chills down my spine.



dr.hal -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/17/2015 10:11:33 PM)

And folks wonder why there is such opposition to Abe's move... it sends chills up the spine of most of Southeast Asia.......



desicat -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/17/2015 10:15:57 PM)

Not without a fight!



CaptBeefheart -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/18/2015 7:48:32 AM)

Southeast Asia sees Japan as a bulwark against China and they don't necessarily trust Uncle Sugar to be around all the time. And that headline is clickbait: All Abe is talking about is helping Allies with support and shooting down missiles aimed at the U.S. This is not a return to the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.

Cheers,
CC



Sheytan -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/18/2015 9:26:32 AM)

Hard to objectively comment on this.



Yaab -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/18/2015 11:59:15 AM)

But this time no 25mm AA guns, please. No CV-BB Godzillas. No torpedo cruisers. No 12cm AA rockets. No tankettes. No Nates. No,no,no!



Chickenboy -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/18/2015 9:10:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

Southeast Asia sees Japan as a bulwark against China and they don't necessarily trust Uncle Sugar to be around all the time. And that headline is clickbait: All Abe is talking about is helping Allies with support and shooting down missiles aimed at the U.S. This is not a return to the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.

Cheers,
CC


Hear hear. It's not the Japanese that are building up islands in disputed non-territorial waters, bouncing patrol ships off of other navies, drilling for oil in disputed waters and defiantly breaching territorial home waters of superpowers halfway around the world.



SigUp -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/18/2015 9:55:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Hear hear. It's not the Japanese that are building up islands in disputed non-territorial waters, bouncing patrol ships off of other navies, drilling for oil in disputed waters and defiantly breaching territorial home waters of superpowers halfway around the world.


The Chinese may be the most prominent/aggressive in doing that, but they are by far not the only ones who are sending patrol vessels around, building up islands and drilling for oil in that disputed region. Something that conveniently gets left out most of the times when talking about this issue.



Chickenboy -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/18/2015 10:01:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SigUp
The Chinese may be the most prominent/aggressive in doing that


Which is why I insinuated, but did not name them, as you did.



AW1Steve -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/18/2015 11:02:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: SigUp
The Chinese may be the most prominent/aggressive in doing that


Which is why I insinuated, but did not name them, as you did.


At this time, they are the only country that goes out of it's way to Threaten USN ships and aircraft. Of course Iran sort of does , but that's like being nibbled by ducks, it make you laugh rather that tee you off. The PRC has the attitude , we own the world. [:@]



Halsey -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/20/2015 4:22:07 PM)

Hmmm...
Welcome to the 21st century.[;)][:D]

Japan and Poland are our only two Allies that now realize that "they are on their own".

Every country that has lived under our military umbrella for the last 70 years better wake up.
We can't afford to do it anymore.
Sorry, but it's time for them to "pony up" to defend themselves.

Just a fact, this is not a political statement.



Yaab -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/20/2015 5:01:06 PM)

Fortunately, we have Polish MGEN Koniu commanding the Japanese forces. He has already quit Pacifism and adopted Home Islandism with a touch of elastic Mainsteinism in the naval department.



Alpha77 -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/20/2015 6:52:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SigUp
Something that conveniently gets left out most of the times when talking about this issue.




Not just *this* issue but most. The mainstream media, governments, intel services etc. do not lie normally. They just don´t tell the whole truth or use wordings that can be interpreted in several ways. So they always can say, we did not say that, actually we meant...xxxxx..... [;)]

I watch funny videos at youtube about eg. CNN,Fox etc. propaganda, interestingly enough they will use the term "a source" lot. But never name that "source" [8|] Or they say "an official told....." who and when ? But you really need to be poked with the nose on such tricks otherwise you wouldnt even notice it. I do not watch TV at all, but youtube so I learned about severall issues with media "reporting" I am now so far that I do not believe much at all what is reported. Would even say some so called "news" are pre fabricated to serve certain groups of people or certain goals of propaganda goals. There is also the book "Das Medienmonopol" (in English I do not know)... among severall about the methods of "press" or "media" (my reply is a bit OT to the Japan topic, but I have no opinion on this specific topic, so I wrote some media critics. LOL)

Now if you wanna see/read the worst "press" outputs try "Bildzeitung" or the English version "Daily Mail" (I believe...).



Alpha77 -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/20/2015 7:05:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

But this time no 25mm AA guns, please. No CV-BB Godzillas. No torpedo cruisers. No 12cm AA rockets. No tankettes. No Nates. No,no,no!



...and no Spencer Tracies [:D]



Big B -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/20/2015 8:00:45 PM)

quote:



Tokyo has faced growing international pressure to expand the role of its military to defend the interests of its key allies, including the United States. America is bound by treaty to defend Japan, an agreement that has been in place since 1960.

"Japan is like the 42-year-old kid still living in the basement of the United States," said longtime Asia strategist Keith Henry.

Henry's Tokyo-based consulting firm, Asia Strategy, provides governmental policy analysis. Henry likens the defense bills to Japan finally "growing up" and moving beyond vague concepts of peace and democracy that are no longer practical given today's rapidly changing geopolitical landscape.


To me, this is absolutely inevitable. Japans' Pacifism is based on an event that ended a lifetime ago. It's an unnatural state of affairs for a nation to NOT defend and pursue whatever it sees as it's national interests.

Japan forever holding on to the principals... that were the result of a military defeat by the Allied Powers rapidly approaching a century ago - is as unrealistic as expecting a policy enacted by Rome to deal with the threat of a militant Carthage - to remain unchanged for 2000 years.

In essence, once the original generation that faced an historical event passes, no one can expect future generations to continue old policies in a world that has changed.

....If not this year - someday down the road definitely.



geofflambert -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/20/2015 8:38:08 PM)

The only way pacifism works is if you have a worldwide empire or belong to one.



warspite1 -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/20/2015 8:42:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Now if you wanna see/read the worst "press" outputs try "Bildzeitung" or the English version "Daily Mail" (I believe...).
warspite1

No, you are thinking of The Sun.



mind_messing -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/21/2015 1:24:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Now if you wanna see/read the worst "press" outputs try "Bildzeitung" or the English version "Daily Mail" (I believe...).
warspite1

No, you are thinking of The Sun.



Both are pretty bad, but you have to admit that the Daily Mail takes the prize for sensationalist headlines.

As a complete OT aside, the media frenzy over Corbyn is just hilarious to read.



geofflambert -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/21/2015 2:25:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Now if you wanna see/read the worst "press" outputs try "Bildzeitung" or the English version "Daily Mail" (I believe...).
warspite1

No, you are thinking of The Sun.



Both are pretty bad, but you have to admit that the Daily Mail takes the prize for sensationalist headlines.

As a complete OT aside, the media frenzy over Corbyn is just hilarious to read.



I'm being told he's an ISIL Manchurian candidate. Can he sing as well as Sinatra?



warspite1 -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/21/2015 5:48:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Now if you wanna see/read the worst "press" outputs try "Bildzeitung" or the English version "Daily Mail" (I believe...).
warspite1

No, you are thinking of The Sun.



Both are pretty bad, but you have to admit that the Daily Mail takes the prize for sensationalist headlines.

As a complete OT aside, the media frenzy over Corbyn is just hilarious to read.

warspite1

The Daily Mail is not even in the same ball-park. Remember some of these non-Daily Mail headlines?

Gotcha! Up Your Delors, Zip Me Up Before You Go-Go and my favourite - If Kinnock Wins Today, Will The Last Person To Leave Britain Please Turn The Lights Out.
"We're awwwwwwrrriiigggghhhhttt!" [:D]

As you brought it up, yes the media frenzy over JC is hilarious - but not half as funny as watching the Labour Party tearing itself to pieces [:)]

Anyway, apologies for that brief de-tour, now back to our original program Japan to quit Pacifism.....



Yaab -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/21/2015 6:46:44 AM)

I see a six-hand Godzilla from SNLF Fukushima, manning a sextuple 25mm AA mount, shouting " Kill without fail!" and self-directing the AA fire with its black-and-white tail, with the mount firmly protected by an impenetrable barrier of manga pulp.



Chris21wen -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/21/2015 7:34:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Hmmm...
Welcome to the 21st century.[;)][:D]

Japan and Poland are our only two Allies that now realize that "they are on their own".

Every country that has lived under our military umbrella for the last 70 years better wake up.
We can't afford to do it anymore.
Sorry, but it's time for them to "pony up" to defend themselves.

Just a fact, this is not a political statement.


Things might be a bit different if there was some world agency whose aim it was to keep the peace. Sorry I've just remembered there is, the toothless wonder called the United Nations. Pity they don't have the balls to do anything.



Jim D Burns -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/21/2015 7:59:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey
Welcome to the 21st century.[;)][:D]


With the US retreating on all fronts, aggressive leaders see opportunity all across the globe to increase their power. Even if the US elects a conservative leader in the next election do you really think the US will force Russia to close its new military bases in Syria and risk a shooting war with the megalomaniac Putin? Russia’s most recent move guarantees they will be one of the most dominate if not the most dominate western geopolitical power in the Middle East for the next hundred years or more. I suspect Putin isn’t finished with just these moves either I expect to see even more expansion moves into the Middle East on his part.

China’s unchallenged expansion into the South China Sea will lead to many small regional conflicts over the next century that will probably reshape national borders and see a new string of colonialism style expansion moves into the East Indies by China.

A new Middle East nuclear arms race is about to commence and with the level of religious zealotry that exists in the leaders in that region of the world I have no doubt nuclear weapons will be released in this century leading to some possible devastating results.

Imagine if you will suddenly 50% of the world’s oil supply becomes unreachable due to nuclear fallout levels rendering vast regions uninhabitable for 50,000+ years. Russia would immediately become one of the wealthiest nations on earth due to skyrocketing oil prices, and that would probably lead to war in Europe as he tried to retake Eastern Europe.

Having the sole superpower left in the world step away from being the world’s police suddenly without any forewarning has created large and small power vacuums all across the globe. And the countries moving to fill the vacuum are not the good guy countries.

After the disasters of WWI and WWII the US realized being an isolationist nation was not in its best interest. Here we are less than 100 years from the end of WWII and we’ve gone back to an isolationist stance. How soon the lessons of history are forgotten.

Jim




wdolson -> RE: Japan to Quit Pacifism? (9/21/2015 12:11:36 PM)

I was not able to read the forum much of the weekend and this went way too political for Matrix's policies.

Sorry, it needs to be shut down.



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