OOB information questions (Full Version)

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Stimpak -> OOB information questions (9/19/2015 7:10:06 PM)

Which information sources the equipment of the units in Flashpoint? For example, how would you know whether an East-German unit had T-55s or T-72s, or a MRD was equipped with BMP-2s or BMP-1s, etc...
Also, are the unit positions in the (very handy) Google Earth file garrisons, defensive positions, or something else?
(A much larger post was lost because I still cannot post links for a week)



CapnDarwin -> RE: OOB information questions (9/20/2015 2:46:10 PM)

For ORBAT source there are a number of places. There are a number of books, internet sites, etc., that can talk to locations, dates and equipment used. We have a number of those. For the OOBs used in game, I mainly use the MicroMark OOB charts to get the formation info and then we clean things up from folks with first hand info.

As for placing units or where the fights happen, that is up to the scenario designer as are the forces used. There are some maps with Cold War force locations out there and you can use those to place "accurate" force names and structures (like 11th ACR, or 3rd Shock army, etc.).



Stimpak -> RE: OOB information questions (9/20/2015 3:35:42 PM)

Thank you. Ahh, the Micromark charts cost cash that I don't have. That's alright, I suppose I can always guess. I assume East Germany would follow the same pattern as the USSR? (Ie. T-72B/T-55 in MRD/MSD, T-72M/T-80 in TD/PD)



CapnDarwin -> RE: OOB information questions (9/20/2015 5:26:42 PM)

Yes, Both East Germany and Poland followed the Soviet structures but with the older equipment. Tanks Would be T-72 and T-55s, No T-64s or T-80s, those were Soviet only. More towed arty than self propelled, older SPAA and SPSAM units. A few BMP units and more BTRs. Things like that. There are some Warsaw Pact OOBs out there if you search the net.



Stimpak -> RE: OOB information questions (9/20/2015 5:40:14 PM)

I have gone over some that appear on the net, but I had ran into trouble with inaccuracies (T-80s in MRDs, lack of info on variants and other assets like the Mi-24), and the numbers were off for 1989 as well since many of these OOBs report WarPac numbers at the time of the CFE treaty holdings. So as usual, I was simply looking for more accurate ORBAT information.



Stimpak -> RE: OOB information questions (10/4/2015 10:36:32 PM)

Another question, this time with smaller units.

Wasn't it the Soviet standard in MRRs to attach the tank companies to MRBs instead of having them in independent tank battalions? If so, wasn't it a 4-tank platoon per MRC rather than 13-tank company per battalion?



CapnDarwin -> RE: OOB information questions (10/5/2015 10:09:04 AM)

Stimpak, check out this pdf of the Army Field Manual. http://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm100-2-3.pdf

That should give you the breakdown of the various formations by group. Soviet tank companies and battalions are generally of three sizes.



Stimpak -> RE: OOB information questions (10/5/2015 5:59:45 PM)

I have that PDF bookmarked, actually. I'm well aware of why battalions/companies are sized the way they are, I was simply curious about how a Soviet MRB's tank company was distributed. There are 13 tanks in the company, so are they kept as an independent company, or are they distributed as 4 tanks per MRC?



battlerbritain -> RE: OOB information questions (10/5/2015 6:11:33 PM)

I think it was usually a 4 tank platoon allocated to each MRC.



Stimpak -> RE: OOB information questions (10/5/2015 7:05:22 PM)

I decided to mess around with my database (Don't worry, I have backups)

[image]http://puu.sh/kzE2S/9d1288fc8a.jpg[/image]

The only issues are that 38 is probably too big for a unit, and the infantry don't mount their BMPs and stay dismounted.



CapnDarwin -> RE: OOB information questions (10/5/2015 7:11:35 PM)

Tanks could also be farmed out to FSE and CRP formations.



CapnDarwin -> RE: OOB information questions (10/5/2015 7:18:29 PM)

I would make the company structure in 3 parts. Motor Rifle element, SAM element, and tank platoon element. That would keep the unit size down and provide more flexibility in footprint for the unit.



Stimpak -> RE: OOB information questions (10/5/2015 7:24:55 PM)

Understandable, I only wanted to merge the units because of their combat spacing in doctrine, ie. Infantry tried to stay within 200m of the tanks, AA platoon was apart of the MRC...

Well, I guess that's what hex stacking is for.



CapnDarwin -> RE: OOB information questions (10/5/2015 9:27:01 PM)

If you go into the datafile in the National tab, there is a setting near the bottom for Subunit Stacking Limit. Right now it is at 35. You could raise that value and see if your larger unit functions properly.



Mad Russian -> RE: OOB information questions (10/5/2015 9:40:23 PM)

Maybe this site will be of some help.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Forces_of_the_National_People's_Army

Good Hunting.

MR



Stimpak -> RE: OOB information questions (10/5/2015 10:33:32 PM)

For the NVA OOB, I actually found this page very helpful.
http://www.fireandfury.com/orbats/modcweastgerman.pdf

As far as equipment goes, I know:

Only one Panzer Division was fully equiped with T-72s, the other had an independent Battalion.
BMP-2s were reserved for Panzer Divisions



Stimpak -> RE: OOB information questions (10/6/2015 3:28:45 AM)

Unrelated topic, but say I was an absolute madman who wanted megaton-scale nuclear weapons. Is the 10-15kt yield of the AA60/Lance locked in the engine?



CapnDarwin -> RE: OOB information questions (10/6/2015 12:41:30 PM)

Sorry. Th the animation and effects of the nuke blast is hard coded right now.



Stimpak -> RE: OOB information questions (10/6/2015 2:40:56 PM)

That's fine...

I've also noticed something else. Engineer units, capable of laying mines, improving positions and performing other regular engineering duties, do exist in the code, and can be added. But the game engine doesn't like engineers for some reason, infact, they automatically turn from "Eng unit" into whatever the dominant subunit's type is.

[image]http://puu.sh/kAzQy/bf77625346.png[/image]



CapnDarwin -> RE: OOB information questions (10/6/2015 4:25:06 PM)

My guess is a miss coded piece of data. If you PM me your file I can see what is going on for you.



Stimpak -> RE: OOB information questions (10/6/2015 4:33:36 PM)

Which one? The Database, or the map file?



CapnDarwin -> RE: OOB information questions (10/6/2015 4:44:30 PM)

Database.



Stimpak -> RE: OOB information questions (10/6/2015 7:03:55 PM)

Done so.

Maybe I'm missing a code. I've tried "Engineer", "Eng", "Pioneer", etc...

In the meantime, another question.
There seems to be a lack of self-propelled mortars in Soviet formations. Where would these usually be found? Tank battalions?



Mad Russian -> RE: OOB information questions (10/6/2015 11:35:44 PM)

If you get Combat Engineers to do all those tasks you'll be the only person on the planet that I know that has.

Good Hunting.

MR



Stimpak -> RE: OOB information questions (10/6/2015 11:41:51 PM)

Well, there's a code remnant somewhere that allows you to place those 12 Bravos, but not use them. Darwin's investigating at the moment.



CapnDarwin -> RE: OOB information questions (10/6/2015 11:48:05 PM)

They won't work right now either. The code is initially pulling that "Eng" from some typecast code, but when the game loads or reloads they are getting recast into a game useable type of infantry. The fix for all of that is called Southern Storm and the 2.1 game engine with the expanded engineering capabilities. Sorry.



Stimpak -> RE: OOB information questions (10/6/2015 11:58:07 PM)

Darn. Well, there's always abstraction.



Mad Russian -> RE: OOB information questions (10/7/2015 4:42:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stimpak

Darn. Well, there's always abstraction.


Now the rest of us do have that in our games! [sm=00000436.gif]

Good Hunting.

MR



Stimpak -> RE: OOB information questions (10/7/2015 5:36:20 PM)

What I'm finding jarring about the East Germans is how small their Kompanies were compared to Soviet, American, Wgerman, etc... formations.

For example, a Panzer Kompanie in a Panzer Division is only 3 tanks.

I've had trouble with the infantry as well. I wonder how the East Germans were going to cram the CHQ, MANPADS team, and 9 infantry squads within only 4 transporters? I Guess it makes sense with the SPW-50 (BTR-50), given it's large capacity.



CapnDarwin -> RE: OOB information questions (10/7/2015 6:42:28 PM)

Stimpak, if you are using the Fire and Fury OOBs, the numbers used refer to stands of a unit. That can be 2 to 5 squads or vehicles. That tank company is 3 stands and a HQ or 9 + 1 tanks. For example in a tank division.



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