Trying Out Japan (Full Version)

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ChadS -> Trying Out Japan (10/10/2015 4:38:02 PM)

Hello,

I'm starting a game vs. the PC where I play as Japan. I'm wondering if anyone knows of a thread that helps with a starting strategy for playing Japan?

I'm not talking about a walk-through that tells me what ships and troops to move to where, but rather a higher level, "you need to move supplies from X to Y. You need to invade Z by March." Etc.

Game-specific comments would be welcome, as well, such as best use of air units (that is, the proper use), etc. I've been going through the videos that are out there (thanks!) but I do generally see a gap, with what I've found, on how to make a good start as Japan.

Thanks in advance!



BBfanboy -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/10/2015 5:35:04 PM)

You've asked a very hard question because everything is so interdependent in the game that you have virtually asked the forum to play your game for you!

First of all you need to say what Scenario you have chosen and what difficulty level you are setting for the AI.

Then you need to decide your Grand Strategy. The game will take on very different flavours depending on whether you intend to expand to India, Australia, the North Pacific region or Hawaii. If you try to go for them all you will soon discover you are weak everywhere.

The name of the game is secure resources in the DEI and Burma - mostly oil/fuel. Everything else is creating a buffer around the conquered resources and your home islands. You should have Singapore by end of January 42, all of Philippines by end or March and DEI by mid May. Beyond that the choice of how far and where to expand your buffer depends largely on how much of the Allied navies you have sunk and how much you have lost.

Expanding into India is best delayed until Chungking has been conquered and mucho divisions made available to march on India.

To your question about supply - Japan starts with large amounts of supply in several places but where it should go depends on your strategic direction of expansion. Figure it out. You can see where the supply is using the Industry button at the top of the screen and sorting on the supply heading. There is no getting around forming hundreds of TFs to start getting things where you want them.

Best way to get help is to start an AAR and ask specific questions in that forum. It is much easier to give advice when we can see a map and know what you want to do.

Good luck!



rustysi -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/10/2015 8:18:00 PM)

Yeah, what he said.[:D] For an AAR for a stock scen1 I'd suggest Mike Solli's current one and one that terminated a while back done by Cribtop. Don't post questions there though as they're well beyond where you are now. Ask questions here, but I'd suggest trying to find the answers in the forum first. Not the easiest thing, but most questions can be found eventually. I usually write my questions down and search for/stumble upon them eventually. I'd also suggest you read Numdydars' Japanese Primer, its where I started. When I'm done here I'll go find the link and post it for you.

In addition you'll have to experiment as there's honestly no other solution. Do not expect to ever master all or many parts of this game. Even when you plan the 'perfect op' you'll fine that all too often things will blow up in your face. I took the game in 'chunks', doing only certain things in each game, but that's me. I'm not trying to scare you but two and a half years latter I'm still at it. TBH I don't spend enormous amounts of time on the game, just huge amounts.[:D] Fact is I thoroughly enjoy both the game and the forum. Good luck and happy gaming.[:)]

Rusty



rustysi -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/10/2015 8:21:32 PM)

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3329605

Ok, try this.



nashvillen -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/10/2015 8:23:42 PM)

Just remember, you are producing a finite amount of supply per month and that is your limiting factor. Budget well for now and the future based on that. Also, don't forget the resources that are out there now for you to start moving to the HI.




leehunt27@bloomberg.net -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/10/2015 10:56:27 PM)

Don't be shy about building up defenses on December 8th at places like Saipan, Guam, Taiwan etc



ChadS -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/12/2015 7:07:14 PM)

Thanks to all. I realize my question was very open-ended, and that there's countless ways to start/proceed.

Believe it or not, though, I think some of my questions were answered with your responses.

I intend to start an AAR, and I will be sure to put questions in there as they arise.

For difficulty--I'm using variable reinforcement (+/- 15), and I am not doing the historical first turn. Difficulty is set to historical, otherwise.

I'm playing the Full Campaign. I have played about 6 months of the US in a previous game.

One question--If I recall, there's a way to skip through the text messages that pop up on screen. I can't find that command, though (I think it was something like Ctrl-F). I looked through the manual, but didn't see it. I'll take another crack at it, but if anyone has a list of quick shortcuts like this, I'd appreciate it!



ChadS -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/12/2015 7:18:37 PM)

I found the larger manual (I was working with an eBook one, I think), and found the list of key commands.

One thing I did think about--what do people thing about Player Defined Upgrades? Especially in the context of playing as Japan (if I recall, I'm in for a lesson on engine/airframe production, etc) for the first time. For now, I'm leaving it off.



GetAssista -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/12/2015 7:43:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChadS
One thing I did think about--what do people thing about Player Defined Upgrades?

PDU OFF just adds yet another dimension of complexity cause your reseach and production goals will no longer be streamlined by solely airframe quality.



mind_messing -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/12/2015 10:07:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad]

I'm not talking about a walk-through that tells me what ships and troops to move to where, but rather a higher level, "you need to move supplies from X to Y. You need to invade Z by March." Etc.



You're going to lose. The game is to make it as hard as possible for your opponent to win.



PaxMondo -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/13/2015 3:37:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChadS


For difficulty--I'm using variable reinforcement (+/- 15), and I am not doing the historical first turn. Difficulty is set to historical, otherwise.


In a stock scenario, on normal difficulty, the AI won't last more than about 6 months tops. Per the dev who wrote the AI, you need to be on at least Hard for the AI to sustain itself.
You can play at normal or lower, but you just need to realize that the AI will crash due to lack of supply fairly quickly.

The dev created several scenarios; "Ironman" which are setup to run against the AI fairly balanced at normal difficulty. They are fantasy scenarios though.
The AI gets a fair amount of help. It does, however, make a good game.



ChadS -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/18/2015 4:00:55 AM)

I've started my game, and have been taking notes for the AAR. Once I have enough to post, I'll add an AAR.

Question, though. What is the difference in a Support Mission and a Replenishment Mission? When would I want one vs. the other?


Thanks!



BBfanboy -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/18/2015 6:52:58 PM)

Replenishment missions only allow AE/AKE and AO types, plus escort vessels.
Support missions can have AG/AS/AR/AV and variations of these, and still have AE/AKE/AO types (plus escorts, of course).
I think there is a chart in the manual showing which types of mission each ship type can be assigned to.



ChadS -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/19/2015 12:04:04 AM)

Thanks BB. Functionally, though, they work the same, it sounds (with exception to what they can perform, based on ship type).

I'm having to start my game over. :( I have made a few mistakes that, at this point, has cost me seriously by way of prep and material. Suffice it to say, I need to remember the Remain on Station command. Also, I'd missed the file that rustysi had replied with, and after reading that, I realize that only a month in, I haven't done anything dreadful, but I should probably start fresh with a better understanding of things.

With that said, is there a way to speed up R&D repair? That doc helped explain that tremendously, but I feel like I must've missed something, as I didn't see a way to improve the R&D speed.

Thanks!



rustysi -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/19/2015 11:00:38 PM)

quote:

With that said, is there a way to speed up R&D repair? That doc helped explain that tremendously, but I feel like I must've missed something, as I didn't see a way to improve the R&D speed.


No repair of an R&D factory is done 'under the hood'. It repairs quicker the closer it gets to the actual production date. What I have read is that it will fully repair in about 63% of the time from when the factory size is set to the actual production date. Don't know exactly if this is true, but form what I can see in my game it seems close. Its best to set R&D factory sizes to 30 as this is optimal for game purposes, and will give you a 1% increase in production advancement per day once the factory is fully repaired. Once you hit 100% there is a chance that production will advance buy one month. I say chance because nothing in this game seems to be certain. From what I have observed it usually happens right away but, I think I recall it being delayed once or twice by a day. In addition if you have over 500 engines of the type for that A/C another 1% will be added to the advancement. There are a number of threads here that discuss this in more detail, but sorry to say I don't have time to search for them right now.



ChadS -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/20/2015 3:27:53 AM)

Thanks Rusty. I did read that doc you offered up. It talked about some of this. I didn't know about the optimal size stuff, though.



ChadS -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/25/2015 2:55:08 AM)

Is there a benefit to keeping a division, for instance, together? I'm looking at the 42nd INF Regiment, and seeing that it's in the same org as the 5th Division, along with the 11th Inf and 21st Inf, as well as the 5th FA and 5th Armor.

Thanks!



GetAssista -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/25/2015 9:48:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChadS
Is there a benefit to keeping a division, for instance, together?

Yes, whole IDs fight slightly better and withstand damage considerably better than parts.
There are PP costs associated with combining sometimes



BBfanboy -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/25/2015 7:33:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChadS
Is there a benefit to keeping a division, for instance, together?

Yes, whole IDs fight slightly better and withstand damage considerably better than parts.
There are PP costs associated with combining sometimes

Further to this - the units to be combined must belong to the same HQ, be in the same location, and have the same devices in their TOE. That last point means that if one unit upgrades their AA devices while the others have not yet done so, you will have to wait until they all get the (scarce) new AA devices. Turn off upgrades for the units soonest to prevent one from upgrading, then work on getting them together and assigned to the same HQ (if you have to spend PP, choose an unrestricted HQ, even if most of the units currently belong to the same restricted [R] HQ) .

The down side to combining the units ASAP is that it will take longer for them to fill out the TOE. Basically, as devices are available in the pools they are allotted to each unit needing them (unless you set the pool to stockpile the device). So if your division is split into five component units, each of them can gain devices (like mobile support: i.e. trucks) rather than just one-fifth of the amount going to the combined division.

The deciding factor is what the unit will be doing. If it is going to be fighting immediately, combine the sub-units ASAP. If you have some time before deploying it, do not combine and manage their TOE devices by stockpiling in the pools and turning off all other units replacements/upgrades. When you have enough devices of one type in the pools to fill all the sub-units TOEs, remove the stockpile order and let the device flow to those units. Once the entire TOE is complete, or if you need to send the unit to battle, combine it. When you do, check the TOE again and you will find it is still short of devices, because a Division gets some additional artillery and AA beyond what the component units can have.



ChadS -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/26/2015 3:50:24 AM)

So, I'm quickly realizing, I'm getting bogged down in China. I lost a major city due to stupidity on my part, but I'm finding I'm trying to clean up everything at once, and nothing is getting cleaned up. The chinese appear to be able to put together huge forces very quickly. A couple of questions about this--

If I choose to leave cities ungarrisoned, will that produce enemy units?

I've been chasing units down after defeating them (when they retreat), and that doesn't seem to be fruitful. Will these units lose effectiveness if I just keep them from supply sources? I'm guessing no, but figured I should ask.



BBfanboy -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/26/2015 4:09:31 AM)

The enemy will get Victory Points when partisans damage your ungarrisoned or under-garrisoned bases. The enemy must breed and equip his own troops. He will be able to take the bases without a fight and if there is industry there he will get it intact, whereas there is usually damage to industry and base facilities if you fight for it.

The Chinese have numbers but lack supply and firepower. Note the lack of organic artillery and anti-tank weapons in their TOE. They can fight reasonably well once they get experience, supply, good leaders, and favourable terrain. The terrain should be clear and forts very low level (0-2) if the Chinese are attacking, or heavy urban/mountain/wooded rough if the Chinese are defending. My own rule of thumb is that the Chinese on attack need a 10-1 advantage in raw AV (before adjustments for forts, terrain, morale, leaders, etc.) if they are to have a chance to be successful.

Most Allied players start the game with most of the Chinese units in clear hexes heading for good terrain, abandoning non essential bases except the Changsha area. Against a human opponent you cannot hope to defeat the Japanese in China. The best you can do is block them from trying to get at Chungking, the source of Chinese replacements. Against the AI, if you can stymie their initial plans the AI will begin to do ad hoc attacks without any coherent plan and you may be able to mass a large enough force to trap a few units. You CAN reduce Japanese effectiveness by cutting off supply, but beware of them surrounding you - they can move faster.



ChadS -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/26/2015 4:23:55 AM)

Thanks BBfanboy.

As I'm playing as Japan against the AI, I trust the same rules tend to hold true? I generally have a small numbers advantage from what I can tell, but I'm seeing them pop up behind me with massive numbers, or, they do a Shock attack and overrun me. Until a couple of turns ago, I seemed to be holding a decent supply line, but a few key links to that have started to break.



GetAssista -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/26/2015 5:47:23 PM)

AI in China (and in land battles in general) is overly aggressive when in strategic defense. It goes all out to hit your weak units or grab unnecessary bases and does not care if it abandons great defensive positions in so doing. You goal in China is to pound him in open terrain, surround his offences with your mobile armor, give him whetever bases he desires as long as they are not generating supply (no HI/LI), and concentrate on one strategical offensive operation at a time. E.g. if you push for Sian, leave Changsha in a stalemate for the timebeing. All this while buying out (if you have this kind of self imposed rule) armor and artillery from Manchukuo. Oh, and bomb his supply generation too
China is a game of patience even against AI, no lightning fast strikes here but slow and inevitable grind on favourable terms.



BBfanboy -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/26/2015 7:18:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

AI in China (and in land battles in general) is overly aggressive when in strategic defense. It goes all out to hit your weak units or grab unnecessary bases and does not care if it abandons great defensive positions in so doing. You goal in China is to pound him in open terrain, surround his offences with your mobile armor, give him whetever bases he desires as long as they are not generating supply (no HI/LI), and concentrate on one strategical offensive operation at a time. E.g. if you push for Sian, leave Changsha in a stalemate for the timebeing. All this while buying out (if you have this kind of self imposed rule) armor and artillery from Manchukuo. Oh, and bomb his supply generation too
China is a game of patience even against AI, no lightning fast strikes here but slow and inevitable grind on favourable terms.

What GetAssista said! You can pull in lots of armour and artillery from Manchukuo, as long as you leave 8000 AV to prevent activation of the Russians on a die roll. I recommend you use PP to buy any restricted Manchukuo units rather than just moving them across as paying for them will give you an idea of the value of PP in this game. Once you have armour and heavy artillery, the Chinese have no answer for that.

They also have no answer for your bombing them in open terrain unless the AVG makes an appearance. Lack of supply will limit the appearance of Allied fighters for more than a few turns. Put your crap bombers (Lillys, Sonias, etc) in China.



rustysi -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/26/2015 10:31:52 PM)

quote:

as long as you leave 8000 AV to prevent activation of the Russians


I'd recommend you leave a bit over 8k as someone in a recent post had Russia activate while at that level. Apparently something occurred in his game (unit upgrade or something) that brought his AV under 8k for a turn or so. The result was Russian activation. If you walk the line you may get unwanted results.



ChadS -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/27/2015 3:28:39 AM)

Appreciate the pointers. February has struck, and I don't hold Singapore yet, though I'm close. Knocking on the door in Manila, and have 4 bases on Borneo and 4 on New Guinea, as well as Manado, Ternate, Kavieng, and Shortlands.



ChadS -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/27/2015 3:56:28 AM)

So, BBfan touched on something I'd been avoiding--spending PPs. In looking for available armor, I stumbled across a couple of units in China, with a Future Objective of Lingayen. Obviously, as part of the 4th Army[R] they're never getting to the Philippines. I'd essentially taken the approach that moving units around was frowned upon. I really don't know why I thought that. I'm sitting on over 3300 PP right now. Looks like I should spend some of that.

Lower end bombers--Sonias, Lillys, Idas, I assume? Are there others?


Heavy Artillery--so, I'm assuming that's typically Field Artillery as opposed to Mortar Batallions?

Also, how long do you typically bombard for before Deliberate attacks? I might be a touch too impatient. I try to break them before reinforcements arrive.



Yaab -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/27/2015 5:36:14 AM)

As for land units and PPs, check this thread

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3418333



BBfanboy -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/27/2015 6:57:59 AM)

Low end bombers - all the single engine level bombers plus the Lilys. You can use some of the obsolete torpedo bombers like the Jean as well.
The long range bombers like Nells and Betties are precious - don't send them to max range unless they have a really juicy target (op losses get high when you send aircraft over about 75% of their max range).

Heavy artillery = 152 mm and up to 350 mm. This stuff is designed for counterbattery work and getting troops hiding in forts or good defensive terrain. You can bombard all week with 75mm field guns and achieve little, but roll in some heavy arty and you are bound to cause hurt. Field guns are OK for troops in the open - clear terrain or they have left their cover to attack your troops.

Your indicators for your DA are the raw AV at the start of your bombardments and the number of casualties/devices damaged you inflict. When the numbers start to go up sharply the enemy's high disruption and fatigue are starting to cause disablements and destroyed devices.
Be careful that the enemy is not getting reinforcements just as you are ordering your DA. If possible, recon the hexes around your battle site to see what is approaching. Recon squadrons can be broken into multiple detachments to recon multi hexes each turn.



ChadS -> RE: Trying Out Japan (10/27/2015 3:38:06 PM)

Does Ground Attack (bombing) have a similar affect to bombarding?



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