is it more balanced with the expansion? (Full Version)

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jnpoint -> is it more balanced with the expansion? (10/17/2015 3:40:34 PM)

For me this game is very difficult, nomatter what I play. But I like to play Axis and it seems to be a certain failure, just because the Allies won the 'real war'. Is it at all possible to win as the Axis, I don't know.

But is it easier to play Axis in the expansion or is it just the same?



whoofe -> RE: is it more balanced with the expansion? (10/17/2015 3:45:44 PM)

you can adjust the difficulty settings



Chuske -> RE: is it more balanced with the expansion? (10/17/2015 4:07:37 PM)

Others may correct if I'm wrong but my understanding is that the Axis can win and Pelton I gather has won all but 1 campaign game as the Axis vs human opponents. I've only played Allied but I hope one of the Axis experts will post their opinion



zakblood -> RE: is it more balanced with the expansion? (10/17/2015 4:09:12 PM)

i can win any battle on any map from either side as a beginner, on easy, with next to know knowledge of the game or it's mechanics either and the AI doing the Air for me, so yes it's much better now, i just leave FOW off and on easy have fun, ramp it up if you wish for more of a challenge and just change some settings and it will give you more of a challenge, run in anything above normal and FOW on, and you will be challenged or hammered depending on map / battle fought and your skill level and knowledge.

learning curve is very good regarding settings imo[&o]




robinsa -> RE: is it more balanced with the expansion? (10/18/2015 10:21:16 AM)

I think hes looking to win the war, not the scenario. This is not possible if your opponent is remotely competent. Having enough victory points in the end to achieve victory is however very possible.



Chuske -> RE: is it more balanced with the expansion? (10/18/2015 11:41:47 AM)

There is also the new "4th supreme command" which is the 1943-45 campaign with a beefed up Axis, I doubt even with that you can "win" the war but should be easier to get a points win



HMSWarspite -> RE: is it more balanced with the expansion? (10/18/2015 12:06:44 PM)

The issue with wanting to 'win the war' (as opposed to the game) is that this is a game based on history. There is no way Germany could have won the war given a historical position as existed in mid 1943 - even with nuclear weapons, a coherent aircraft development programme, accelerated Jets etc the loss is just slowed and made more expensive. Thus to 'win' it in a game means the game must be significantly different to history. I think this would be a fundamentally odd game: great effort is put in to the weapons, aircraft, units etc, but then the overall game is changed somehow to make it possible for Germany to win. It would be like a detailed model of the laws of physics, which allows perpetual motion. If a 'balanced' game where either side can win is required, don't start from here.

It is just the same with the Pacific. Anyone who thinks a game should be possible where Japan can win has absolutely no idea of the relative industrial and economic strengths of the combatants.



jnpoint -> RE: is it more balanced with the expansion? (10/18/2015 1:26:27 PM)

Thanks for the answers. I was mostly thinking of winning on points, because winning the entire war is impossible, I know.

It's just - I really do a lot of mistakes, and the detail is very extreme. In some way it appeals to me, but on the other hand, it's just too much.

For example, when a certain faktory produce a certain gun - does it mean that if that factory is bombed and destroyed - will my units then have to change to another gun - is it that detailed? If it is, then I'm really impressed, but I also think it's just to much for me to handle :)

Oh, what I mean is, is it more easy to win on points for a player like me with the new expansion?



zakblood -> RE: is it more balanced with the expansion? (10/18/2015 1:34:43 PM)

if the challenge is too much, turn the difficulty down until you win, play it a few times to learn how it plays then turn it back up, i've never had a issue with any sort of bombing target and loss of anything, then again i only test, but results have always been good on easy, on normal it's gets more of a challenge, then again i may not be ready for that level of use as yet as my skill level isn't quite there as yet, but will be one day, it's fun all the same.

and yes point winning is easy if you pick the right skill level to match your ability, FOW off makes it's harder also, so play as the level your happy and comfortable to be at first, then and only then change it, that's how i do it anyway, and it works, good luck[;)]


[image]local://upfiles/43185/1273BE2D61104A4686CE367DF95835A6.jpg[/image]

the whole game is either in depth or not depending on what level of difficulty you wish to play at, imo it can be a simple hex based game or a epic encounter if you wish[&o]



jnpoint -> RE: is it more balanced with the expansion? (10/18/2015 2:59:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

if the challenge is too much, turn the difficulty down until you win, play it a few times to learn how it plays then turn it back up, i've never had a issue with any sort of bombing target and loss of anything, then again i only test, but results have always been good on easy, on normal it's gets more of a challenge, then again i may not be ready for that level of use as yet as my skill level isn't quite there as yet, but will be one day, it's fun all the same.

and yes point winning is easy if you pick the right skill level to match your ability, FOW off makes it's harder also, so play as the level your happy and comfortable to be at first, then and only then change it, that's how i do it anyway, and it works, good luck[;)]


[image]local://upfiles/43185/1273BE2D61104A4686CE367DF95835A6.jpg[/image]

the whole game is either in depth or not depending on what level of difficulty you wish to play at, imo it can be a simple hex based game or a epic encounter if you wish[&o]


Thanks - yes I like hex-based games, simple or not, as long as they are fun. I'll try with easy and FOW turned off.

I did not complain over the air war. Maybe I'm not clear, but I was wondering if the game uses a lot of details, just for the sake of details or if it is used for real in the game. For example if a factory producing a certain gun is bombed and destroyed - will any unit using that gun then have to change or lack those guns? Because if that is the case, then it is very impressive! No complaint, more a question :)



zakblood -> RE: is it more balanced with the expansion? (10/18/2015 3:15:17 PM)

for me the game is aimed at groghead level of players, and has been designed with them in mind, that was from WITE days, with WITW, some more thought has been put in to make it more user friendly for the newer none groghead level of player like myself, the depth is still all there, but you don't need to either know it, or think about it if you wish not to, as for me i careless about a plane that fires 2 types of ammo and more about can i support the airborne unit that's just been blown way of course and landed in the middle of nowhere approach :)

plus for me it has to be fun first, detail and eye candy next, with a good AI thrown into the mix, while the game does teach you the basics, you still need to watch a few vids and have a odd read of a guide now and then when you make silly mistakes like i make all the time, wanted to drop airborne supplies and ended up dropping the men instead, ah well guess that where they will have to start off fighting from, or not lol.

and as for you're question, no, not that i've seen, bombed factorys can slow down stuff, but not to that extent as you don't have one of any of them, you have loads, so to lets say run out of petrol / fuel etc, you'd have to spend a hell of a lot of time bombing them over and over again turn after turn, so unless your in the longest campaigns etc, you just won't notice it that much... then again i could be wrong, i run on 50%, so sometimes right sometimes wrong...[:D][;)]



KWG -> RE: is it more balanced with the expansion? (10/18/2015 4:35:40 PM)

jnpoint
"For example if a factory producing a certain gun is bombed and destroyed - will any unit using that gun then have to change or lack those guns? Because if that is the case, then it is very impressive! No complaint, more a question :) "

Yes. Unit TOE will change, Plus the resources to make the gun and the freight of the gun actually uses the rail system to go from place to place.

Like in real WW2 you pick a industry type and bomb it for a week(s) or month. Trying to bomb every type of industry results in a little less of everything. Bombing one type of industry, heavily ,results in a big less of one thing, which will have more of a impact on the enemies war machine.

Bombing the railyards/rails affects all industries.




LiquidSky -> RE: is it more balanced with the expansion? (10/18/2015 11:29:59 PM)



Oh..I would say you could bomb everything. This is from the middle of 1944.

[image]local://upfiles/29532/CE46650BF01B43639C4AA0D78C793680.jpg[/image]



prinzeugen -> RE: is it more balanced with the expansion? (10/19/2015 7:52:30 AM)

I don't really understand this post. Are we talking of winning against the AI? Because at "normal difficulty" it is impossible to loss playing the Axis! Playing against the AI in this game is like watching a broken droid--like on that British show "Humans".... I watch as the AI air drops supplies on random hexes in the middle of England for no reason. As it withdraws from hexes, retreating for no reason... As it routinely attacks at places were it has the worst odds, while bypassing weak points.
I'm saying this as someone who is not really very good at this game--I've barely read the manual, and I haven't even mastered the air war part of this game.
I'm not buying the Expansion, because the developers clearly don't care if the AI for this game works. Secondly, would it have killed the developers to put the entire N. African campaign in the Expansion? Granted it might be a little boring at the scale of this game....
Lastly, why is the "FireBombing" of old men, women, and children called "reducing manpower points in cities" ? or something like that...



RedLancer -> RE: is it more balanced with the expansion? (10/19/2015 8:03:58 AM)

It's a pity that you didn't raise these issues when you were Beta Testing the expansion.



jnpoint -> RE: is it more balanced with the expansion? (10/19/2015 11:37:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: prinzeugen

I don't really understand this post. Are we talking of winning against the AI? Because at "normal difficulty" it is impossible to loss playing the Axis! Playing against the AI in this game is like watching a broken droid--like on that British show "Humans".... I watch as the AI air drops supplies on random hexes in the middle of England for no reason. As it withdraws from hexes, retreating for no reason... As it routinely attacks at places were it has the worst odds, while bypassing weak points.
I'm saying this as someone who is not really very good at this game--I've barely read the manual, and I haven't even mastered the air war part of this game.
I'm not buying the Expansion, because the developers clearly don't care if the AI for this game works. Secondly, would it have killed the developers to put the entire N. African campaign in the Expansion? Granted it might be a little boring at the scale of this game....
Lastly, why is the "FireBombing" of old men, women, and children called "reducing manpower points in cities" ? or something like that...



So in your opinion I should buy the expansion if I think it's hard to win as the Axis before the expansion?



Rongor -> RE: is it more balanced with the expansion? (10/19/2015 12:09:56 PM)

I think it is legit to have the Axis player face a harder game.



KWG -> RE: is it more balanced with the expansion? (10/19/2015 4:31:17 PM)

LiquidSky

"Oh..I would say you could bomb everything. This is from the middle of 1944."


That is not in the context of my statement. Yes you can bomb everything but are you doing large amounts of damage to everything? What is the data of that pic? What industries are you bombing? How much damage to each are you causing? How fast are they repairing? what are your fatigue levels. It looks like you should be causing lots of losses/fatigue to the Luftwaffe.

I could be confusing Real with the game as i tend to do, yet even the manual states:

"The Allied player will need to develop a strategic bombing doctrine. hitting everything all the time will deplete the air force and limit damage to the Axis war machine."

"The consistent targeting of specific industries such as fuel, aircraft or tank production can produce notable results. hitting all industries equally will not produce the desired result as there are simply too many targets for that strategy to work."

Bomb everything ? Bomb specific industries with everything.


The Belle of the Ball - Railyard/rails



KWG -> RE: is it more balanced with the expansion? (10/21/2015 4:45:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: prinzeugen

I don't really understand this post. Are we talking of winning against the AI? Because at "normal difficulty" it is impossible to loss playing the Axis! Playing against the AI in this game is like watching a broken droid--like on that British show "Humans".... I watch as the AI air drops supplies on random hexes in the middle of England for no reason. As it withdraws from hexes, retreating for no reason... As it routinely attacks at places were it has the worst odds, while bypassing weak points.
I'm saying this as someone who is not really very good at this game--I've barely read the manual, and I haven't even mastered the air war part of this game.
I'm not buying the Expansion, because the developers clearly don't care if the AI for this game works. Secondly, would it have killed the developers to put the entire N. African campaign in the Expansion? Granted it might be a little boring at the scale of this game....
Lastly, why is the "FireBombing" of old men, women, and children called "reducing manpower points in cities" ? or something like that...




Interesting points. You should have provided more details.
Do you win as Axis in points or the land war or both?
Sounds like you would have a made a good beta tester and this crew will listen to you. They do not just put somethin out the door and say thats it, deal with it. WitE is still being perfected.



" I watch as the AI air drops supplies on random hexes in the middle of England for no reason."

I brought that up a few weeks ago, was told it will be addressed. Iam even worse, as Allies I will drop Airborne divisions all over England. Lets me know how much I can drop in a turn as I prepare for the main invasion.

"As it withdraws from hexes, retreating for no reason..."
I did some posts about how I do that to the AI to get it to advance into a area that Iam prepared to attack them.


" As it routinely attacks at places were it has the worst odds, while bypassing weak points. "

I made several posts in WitE about how, as Axis, in the winter I would weaken a spefic sector of my front to get the Russians to attack me there. I would have strong reserves in the rear of the weaken front. Sometimes you have to attack the strongest sector because that is the goal or is in the direction of the goal.

Do you want a AI that does the same each time? Or one that is daring one game, conservative next game and who knows what the next game.


I thought the smaller scale scenarios would be less exciting, but after watching the AARs the smaller makes every decision more critical.


Lastly, William Tecumseh Sherman answered that age-old question.






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