War in the East 2 Wishlist (Full Version)

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AnonK2 -> War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/5/2015 12:14:13 PM)

Hey folks and wargaming addicts,

X-mas is coming and its time for wishes. Even if WitE 2 is far away, what features would you like to see?

My personal direction would be improving immersion and choice.

- player can decide about what factories produce (War in Russia)
- massive air and ground unit insignia
- extensive pilot names lists (I love follow pilots careers becoming aces and beeing sad if the suddenly die.)
- West Front Box with different theatres and more details feedback about the status there
- ability to move support units between the theatres
- improved unit name conventions and localised unit names (German units - German language, Italian - Italian...)
- ability to rename units ingame and not only within the editor
- player can promote cdrs, not the system = more choice
- ability to dismiss cdrs completely
- medal system which can be given by the player to cdrs, if the performed outstanding (maybe improving the stats a bit)
- grand campaign pre-war turn allowing the player to change the unit staging different than the historical (like AGEODs To End all wars)

Bonus:
- division commanders not only corps
- decision system for things that cant be modeled within the framework to improve friction of war, for example railroad conversion(upcoming Barbarossa game is going a good way as I can tell as beta tester)

I would love to have more sandbox options and more players choice. I can replay the historical war or might end up doing different things - the Torch 4th Command scenario showed the way. What are your thoughts and wishes?



Devonport -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/5/2015 1:10:49 PM)

Do you think you might get a better response in the WITE forum? Don't have the game myself, so difficult to respond.



AnonK2 -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/5/2015 1:58:14 PM)

WITE > WITW > WITE2
or is that wrong?




Helpless -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/5/2015 2:19:09 PM)

quote:

- player can decide about what factories produce (War in Russia)


Not on the list, but it was discussed in several calls. Variable production makes balancing significantly more complex.

There is a plan to make production "chassis" based and make all AFV variants as exports. It opens extra opportunities to add player's influence, without completely breaking a system.

quote:

- massive air and ground unit insignia


Already in. Soviet units had no insignia, but there are other ways to "mark" them.

quote:

- extensive pilot names lists (I love follow pilots careers becoming aces and beeing sad if the suddenly die.)


already in, just need someone to enter all data.

quote:

- West Front Box with different theatres and more details feedback about the status there


This is something we are currently working on. Trey's 1941 campaign is using "full map" :)

quote:

- ability to move support units between the theatres


I think it should be possible already.

quote:

- improved unit name conventions and localised unit names (German units - German language, Italian - Italian...)
- ability to rename units ingame and not only within the editor


Unfortunately AI is using unit names, so it is very hard to switch to other names. We can possible hook translation system to display them different.

quote:

- player can promote cdrs, not the system = more choice
- ability to dismiss cdrs completely


It can make make leaders layer a bit obsolete. Who would want to play weak leader?

quote:

- medal system which can be given by the player to cdrs, if the performed outstanding (maybe improving the stats a bit)


This is not that bad idea. There are some other thoughts to add "RPG" elements.

quote:

- grand campaign pre-war turn allowing the player to change the unit staging different than the historical (like AGEODs To End all wars)


There is so many moving parts in game, so it can be hard to make it to work. But I like the idea.

quote:

- division commanders not only corps


I don't think it is going to happen. It would require to rewrite all leader/HQ code.

quote:

- decision system for things that cant be modeled within the framework to improve friction of war, for example railroad conversion(upcoming Barbarossa game is going a good way as I can tell as beta tester)


Not sure what exactly is meant here. Game has functioning editor which lets to alter all kind of unit/national attributes.



AnonK2 -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/5/2015 3:17:57 PM)

Awesome news Pavel, thx a lot for the insights. WITE2 will be great wargaming piece.
If you need someone for the pilot data entering, I would gladly volunteer to help you doing this - even if that means I have to stop playing WitW. ;)
RPG elements would be an interesting turn. Crusader Kings 2 shows how mighty this can be and how much the player base appreciate that. Giving the leaders more character/personality than just stats and pic.
Being wounded, earing medals, opposing orders, being inspiring after a series of victories, hopeless after defeats, drunk or under drugs...

I really like the Decisive Campaigns approach, showing how much friction and competing interests matter in a war.
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/558/details/Decisive.Campaigns:.Barbarossa
Is going a step further then for example AGEOD games, which also have at certain points decision boxes.
Isnt that what games are about - choices/decisions (telltale games for instance)?
Maybe some aspect of WITE2 (soft factors) that can hardly be implemented otherwise could be transfered in decisions.
For example: Hermann Hoth is getting wounded trying to free encircled Stalingrad with a PzKorps. Shall I send him home for recovery or let him stay as commander risking him getting in serious condition and passing out for the rest of the war?
Decisions would be cool- but are maybe a thing further away in the evolution of the series > War in Europe in 2020 maybe.:)

Another way could be more strategical decisions like.
I hope I explained it better.

What about the others here? Any things you would like to see inside War in the East 2?



towerbooks3192 -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/5/2015 4:03:50 PM)

Wait, what is this talk about WiTE 2? But...but... I just spent over $300 for both East and West. I do hope they can at least merge all the european war soon. Like I want to play from Fall Weiss to the Fall of Berlin. It will also add a lot of scenario to the game.



Great_Ajax -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/6/2015 3:04:44 AM)

The trait system used by the Total War series and Paradox's Hearts of Iron would be really cool to differentiate the leaders represented in the game and give them some character. Right now, leaders are just a collection of skill numbers. Imagine Mainsten having the 'Fortress Buster' trait or your favorite leader picking up a negative trait like 'drunkard' or 'callous risk taker'. You could even mix up the leaders a bit by randomizing some of the traits at the start of a campaign. The RPG elements could be a lot of fun.

Trey

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnonK2

Awesome news Pavel, thx a lot for the insights. WITE2 will be great wargaming piece.
If you need someone for the pilot data entering, I would gladly volunteer to help you doing this - even if that means I have to stop playing WitW. ;)
RPG elements would be an interesting turn. Crusader Kings 2 shows how mighty this can be and how much the player base appreciate that. Giving the leaders more character/personality than just stats and pic.
Being wounded, earing medals, opposing orders, being inspiring after a series of victories, hopeless after defeats, drunk or under drugs...

I really like the Decisive Campaigns approach, showing how much friction and competing interests matter in a war.
http://www.matrixgames.com/products/558/details/Decisive.Campaigns:.Barbarossa
Is going a step further then for example AGEOD games, which also have at certain points decision boxes.
Isnt that what games are about - choices/decisions (telltale games for instance)?
Maybe some aspect of WITE2 (soft factors) that can hardly be implemented otherwise could be transfered in decisions.
For example: Hermann Hoth is getting wounded trying to free encircled Stalingrad with a PzKorps. Shall I send him home for recovery or let him stay as commander risking him getting in serious condition and passing out for the rest of the war?
Decisions would be cool- but are maybe a thing further away in the evolution of the series > War in Europe in 2020 maybe.:)

Another way could be more strategical decisions like.
I hope I explained it better.

What about the others here? Any things you would like to see inside War in the East 2?




zakblood -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/6/2015 5:04:23 AM)

i'd like a easier editor[;)]



micheljq -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/6/2015 5:19:41 PM)

better AI for WiTE2. The WiTW air system for WiTE2.

+1 with Towerbooks3192

Michel



Lobster -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/9/2015 3:48:16 PM)

A realistic combat/movement system instead of the current arcade system. Hmm...perhaps realistic isn't the right word. Perhaps instead of realistic I should say better. At least so you don't drive through a hex where combat is taking place all in the same period of time as though there were no fighting taking place.



Helpless -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/9/2015 4:14:34 PM)

quote:

At least so you don't drive through a hex where combat is taking place all in the same period of time as though there were no fighting taking place.


Hex combat delay is already implemented in WITW.



amatteucci -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/10/2015 1:05:35 PM)

1) Fronts and Army Groups with editable names
2) The possibility to overstaff or understaff HQs (à la DC series)
3) Diversification and increase of APs



angelsdodgers -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/10/2015 8:03:46 PM)

Larger unit counters and fonts please for those of us with bad eyes!



RedLancer -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/11/2015 6:52:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: angels

Larger unit counters and fonts please for those of us with bad eyes!



You can change Fonts already - instructions in the Editor Manual
You are also able to mod the counters although you can't go much larger as they already fill the Hex but you can perhaps make them less detailed and therefore easier to read.



LiquidSky -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/12/2015 4:19:38 AM)



If you are using Windows 10 you can go into Settings/Display

(or right-click the desktop and choose Display Settings)

Click on the monitor number you want to change, move the slider "Change the size of text, apps and other items:" to a higher percentage.

This acts like a magnifier, and increases everything in size equally.

Then hit apply. You don't have to sign out when it asks for just WiTW.

Here is what the game looks like when I move the slider to 225%

[image]local://upfiles/29532/6DBF79C029B44D8888D2D1877EE2C695.jpg[/image]



angelsdodgers -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/14/2015 12:14:49 AM)

Thanks Red Lancer and Liquid Sky. Still using Windows 7 but will definitely try that if I get a new Windows 10 PC. Will also check the editor manual though I was hoping it could just be another level of zoom. Sometimes it's useful to see the "big picture" and then it would be nice to zoom in to where I want to move. Appreciate the help.



STUCKER868 -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/28/2015 4:19:36 PM)

TOP on the list for me is the A.I. It's SUCH A SHAME that the A.I. is so brain dead in these games. War in the East or West are nothing more than "sandboxes" to me unless you play multi-player and I don't have time for that. I would much prefer a MASSIVE focus on a decent A.I. over any other tweaks or eye candy for the next series of these games (assuming nothing can be done with the current engine).

Being a programmer myself and involved with teaching game design, I am very much aware of the difficulties involved with building even a mediocre A.I. for games (especially one as complicated as WITW). But let's face it, for single player gaming, the A.I. in these games is so poor that the game is simply not fun after some play. I recently purchased the TORCH update and after a few hours of play, it's still the same silliness from the A.I. So I spent another $20.00 only to discover what I already knew, that the A.I. is brain dead as it was before.

Anyone who has played even the D-Day scenario knows how easy it is to break through and crush the Allies. The Allied A.I. leaves gaps in the lines, undefended temp supply harbors etc. It's simply unacceptable and ruins any single player experience.

In the future, I hope the Devs focus their resources on a stronger A.I. Unlike Chess (even then, because of the databases of stored moves which gives the A.I. huge advantages over humans), no A.I. can be built to match or exceed a humans ability in a game like WITW (at least with current technology). There are new ideas in the A.I. field that hopefully will help game designers upgrade what has been the bane of video gaming since the birth of them. Weak A.I.

Despite the tech issues with current A.I. I believe it can be done better that what I am seeing here with WITE/W.




spooq -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/28/2015 9:00:34 PM)

There's a magnifier built in to Windows 7 too. You can use it as a lens, or dock it to an area of the screen. If you have two monitors, you might be able to get it setup on one of them, not sure.



chaos45 -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/29/2015 4:49:38 PM)

Well after recently starting to play WiTW after playing WiTE on and off for years.....I guess im the only person that doesnt like the new air system???

Its an ungodly amount of additional micromanagement in the game and frankly I havent enjoyed it much after messing with it this last weekend. I figured this would be the case from reading AARs and why i had already delayed purchasing the game.

If WiTE 2.0 is all about micromanaging the airforces of each side I will have no interest in purchasing it just saying.

To me at this level and scale of game the airforces should be abit more abstract than managing every single airsquadron and where its located and what its doing and if its resting and how many missions its flying...absolutely ridiculous amount of micro management each turn for the player. An yes its something you have to mess with every turn to get the most out of your air forces.

Maybe im the only one that doenst enjoy it, but its doubtful I bet other players have the same annoyance over it. Also saying the AI can do it, well we've seen the criminal incompetence of the AI trying to manage the air war for you in the AARs.

I have played the older air war games-bombing of the Reich an such and they were alright but criminally boring and slow to play due to the AI taking forever to play a turn. It seems to me all you did was import those into what used to be more of a ground war emphasized game.

Would prefer more abstract air war, or an option for such. As I dont want to manage an air campaign every turn I play and deal with logistics, SU, HQ management, and determining what I want to do with all of my ground units again just saying.

An if this every goes to war in europe type scale good luck finding anyone with the time to play such an unmanageable game with this way to much detail. Option needs to be added for abstract air war not incompetent AI managed air war. Such as just a general air superiority level, or air points to commit for different actions or some such....this managing every single recon air squadron is just a step to far in detail and time consuming game play IMO....not to mention the length of time it takes the AI to run the phases. Especially with the thousands upon thousands of planes and hundreds or squadrons involved.....

Its great you decided to add this to the game shows some commitment to detail but not everyone is interested in this level of detail and time needing to be consumed to play the game.






RedLancer -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/29/2015 5:53:56 PM)

The Air Game is undeniably a hugely steep learning curve if you decide to move beyond auto AD creation (which is arguably quicker than WitE). It is a game within a game.

This is exactly why we created the MP Game functionality - find yourself a good air commander and crack on.




LiquidSky -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/30/2015 2:08:25 PM)



It is not really a lot of micromanagement. Once it is all organized, you hardly ever have to move the squadrons about, and you can think of them just as a big HQ that can do certain missions.

In fact, I would say it is similar to SU management in WiTE. I spent a lot of time moving them about to get them where I want...then I am done. Every once in a few turns I will move some....but I basically know what army has what.



SuluSea -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/30/2015 4:46:32 PM)

It's taken some time to get comfortable with the air system in WITW but have to say I like the improvements and look forward to that being put into play in WITE 2.0



HMSWarspite -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/30/2015 7:03:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Well after recently starting to play WiTW after playing WiTE on and off for years.....I guess im the only person that doesnt like the new air system???

Its an ungodly amount of additional micromanagement in the game and frankly I havent enjoyed it much after messing with it this last weekend. I figured this would be the case from reading AARs and why i had already delayed purchasing the game.

If WiTE 2.0 is all about micromanaging the airforces of each side I will have no interest in purchasing it just saying.

To me at this level and scale of game the airforces should be abit more abstract than managing every single airsquadron and where its located and what its doing and if its resting and how many missions its flying...absolutely ridiculous amount of micro management each turn for the player. An yes its something you have to mess with every turn to get the most out of your air forces.

Maybe im the only one that doenst enjoy it, but its doubtful I bet other players have the same annoyance over it. Also saying the AI can do it, well we've seen the criminal incompetence of the AI trying to manage the air war for you in the AARs.

I have played the older air war games-bombing of the Reich an such and they were alright but criminally boring and slow to play due to the AI taking forever to play a turn. It seems to me all you did was import those into what used to be more of a ground war emphasized game.

Would prefer more abstract air war, or an option for such. As I dont want to manage an air campaign every turn I play and deal with logistics, SU, HQ management, and determining what I want to do with all of my ground units again just saying.

An if this every goes to war in europe type scale good luck finding anyone with the time to play such an unmanageable game with this way to much detail. Option needs to be added for abstract air war not incompetent AI managed air war. Such as just a general air superiority level, or air points to commit for different actions or some such....this managing every single recon air squadron is just a step to far in detail and time consuming game play IMO....not to mention the length of time it takes the AI to run the phases. Especially with the thousands upon thousands of planes and hundreds or squadrons involved.....

Its great you decided to add this to the game shows some commitment to detail but not everyone is interested in this level of detail and time needing to be consumed to play the game.






Seriously, stick with it. Once you have the air forces as you like them, I find it is a little switching of sqds to 'rest' and back (the filters and selection tools are great here), and then go though the ADs (<20) and retargeting them (and not all need this every turn), or possibly switching them off.

So much more realistic for not that much more effort. Stick at it - you will view WitE as kindergarten stuff after you get used to this. If you want a smaller game, Torch is great (38 turns, only about 1/2-1 million men a side)



smokindave34 -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/30/2015 8:52:48 PM)

Agree with the others regarding the air war (and WITW in general). The first turn is a long tedious slog to get all your air units organized and with the proper chain of command but after that there are just a handful of actions you need to take each turn (set AD, rest units, manual upgrades).

At first I didn't enjoy WITW nearly as much as WITE but after my 2nd GC of WITW I doubt I will play another WITE game until WITE 2 comes out. WITW is a much more polished and realistic product (logistics, air war, weather, victory points etc.).



loki100 -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/30/2015 10:11:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

Agree with the others regarding the air war (and WITW in general). The first turn is a long tedious slog to get all your air units organized and with the proper chain of command but after that there are just a handful of actions you need to take each turn (set AD, rest units, manual upgrades).

At first I didn't enjoy WITW nearly as much as WITE but after my 2nd GC of WITW I doubt I will play another WITE game until WITE 2 comes out. WITW is a much more polished and realistic product (logistics, air war, weather, victory points etc.).


I'd very much agree with this, for a while I took the view that WiTW was interesting, a useful stepping stone in the evolution of the design but it lacked the scale and sweep of WiTE.

I now think it is simply a far better game, things that frustrate (a lot) in WiTE have been sorted out.

Not least played with the Allies, the situation makes it easier for an AI Germany to give you a good game without having to crank things up and still play with considerable restraint.

as to the air war, as with others, its a bit akin to managing support units in WiTE. Put in some early effort to get into an order that makes sense to you and its then a bit of early turn admin. Every now and then you need to rip up your templates and re-organise but its not something you need to do turn after turn. The tools with the recent patches, once you start making use of them, really eases the admin burden.



chaos45 -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (11/30/2015 10:21:35 PM)

Ya I played through most of torch---still think it requires abit to much micromanagement. To each their own.



cmunson -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (12/5/2015 1:23:20 PM)

quote:

It is not really a lot of micromanagement. Once it is all organized, you hardly ever have to move the squadrons about, and you can think of them just as a big HQ that can do certain missions.


Agree with loki100 and others. I was like you at first chaos45. Once you get the hang of the interface it adds a dimension I can't imagine doing without. As the Germans in the 43 campaign managing the Luftwaffe gives so much more depth to the German players experience and this from a player whose only Grigsby game never purchased is Bombing the Reich.

I am a 40 year war gamer and the air war has always been abstracted in games like this so I think my instinct was to resent when it suddenly wasn't abstracted. I hope you keep playing.



76mm -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (12/9/2015 3:15:13 AM)

I don't have WitW; one of the main things I didn't like about WitE was the opaque and convoluted combat engine--has that changed at all in WitW, and are any further changes anticipated for WitE?



KWG -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (12/10/2015 12:45:13 PM)

The ability to abandon equipment to increase movement, due to lack of fuel/undamaged vehicles.



RedLancer -> RE: War in the East 2 Wishlist (12/10/2015 1:38:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

I don't have WitW; one of the main things I didn't like about WitE was the opaque and convoluted combat engine--has that changed at all in WitW, and are any further changes anticipated for WitE?


It has changed but perhaps not as much as you may like. Not sure on WitE2 yet.



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