Struggle with fire (Full Version)

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DmitryZ -> Struggle with fire (11/8/2015 9:28:17 PM)

If to remove all disbanded/docked ships from port with fire-burned ship and live it alone, would it helps to stop fire spread? Does naval support and port facilities waste their efforts to all ships with minor damage if they anchored?




crsutton -> RE: Struggle with fire (11/8/2015 11:46:54 PM)

Other ships in port should not have an impact. Port size and naval support are factors. The more the better. But sometimes your ship is going to burn up regardless of what you do. I do not think ARs help as they are repair ships but someone might correct me on that.




rustysi -> RE: Struggle with fire (11/9/2015 12:02:24 AM)

What CR said. Not sure if an AR will help, but I will say you can't assign it to a vessel fighting fires. When you open the ship screen for a vessel that is on fire it simply states that the type of repair is firefighting and there are no player choices available.




Reg -> RE: Struggle with fire (11/9/2015 12:04:40 AM)


You can't commence repair of a ship if it is still burning..... [:(]





btd64 -> RE: Struggle with fire (11/9/2015 12:19:23 AM)

Firefighting is an abstraction. I remember this from a discussion several years ago I had with michaelm I think. I had asked about the possiblity of adding fire boats, and that was the answer I got at the time. The fire will not spread. Naval support does help fight it. I've had ships of similar size with 70 to 80 fire damage in ports with little or no naval support and others in ports with 100 or so with the 1st ship sinking and the last ship sailing out after a month or 2 of repairs. My 2 cents....GP




Alfred -> RE: Struggle with fire (11/9/2015 5:34:37 AM)

I repeat the information I provided less than 12 hours ago.

Dousing ship fires is indeed abstracted in the game.  It is not covered by the ship repair routines but has its own set of routines.  Relevant considerations for fire fighting are as follows.

1.  A ship on fire in a task force with other undamaged ships will receive some help in dousing the fires from the other undamaged ships in the TF.

2.  High system damage limits the fire fighting ability of the ship's crew.

3.  In a port the normal fire fighting routine is based on:

(a) port size (less port damage).  The bigger the port, the greater the fire fighting assistance
(b) naval support.  Again the more present, the greater the assistance
(c) ship crew experience
(d) the level of ship system damage.  A ship's systems abstracts the presence of fire fighting equipment such as fire hoses
(e) luck, aka die rolls

4.  With the exception of point 6 below, all ship fire fighting occurs outside of shipyards or offline in pierside/tender repair modes.  This means that shipyards/pierside/tenders provide no assistance to combat ship fires and a ship already on fire cannot be placed in those facilities.

5.  A ship's flotation damage also plays a role.  At a certain level (undisclosed), of flotation damage, fire fighting efforts degrade.  This level varies depending on whether the ship on fire is

(a) at sea alone,
(b) in a small or big port

6.  A ship which is already in a shipyard and whilst there a fire starts, as of patch #2, will remain in the shipyard for a single turn.  If the fire is doused completely (together with the additional damage caused directly by the fire) in that single turn, the ship will resume its previous repair work on the following turn.  All that is lost is a single turn's repair work as all attention was directed towards dousing the fire.  However, if the fire is not completely doused (together with the additional direct damage) in that single turn, the ship is automatically moved out of the shipyard and cannot be returned to the shipyard until the fire is extinguished.

It is a very rare occurrence for a fire to start in a ship in drydock.  This will usually only occur if one of the rare catastrophic events occur, or the enemy bombs the port and inflicts port damage.


Don Bowen was the main dev who commented on fire fighting, mainly in 2009 but also in 2011.  I'll edit this post to provide the single most comprehensive thread on the subject.

Alfred

Edit: As promised this is the single best thread but there are several others which include posts from Don Bowen.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2270171&mpage=1&key=fire%2Cfighting?


I stated that dousing ship fires does not use the ship repair routines.  So an AR has no role to play here. 

It is all an abstraction which does not use operations points.  Hence there is no distraction away from undertaking other tasks by other assets.

Point 3 comprehensively states what puts out fires in a port.  Other disbanded ships are not mentioned as either assisting or adversely affecting the fire fighting efforts.  Pretty obvious what that means.

Alfred




DmitryZ -> RE: Struggle with fire (11/9/2015 6:42:55 AM)

Thank you, Alfred! This question is about if I have a fast way to increase 3(b) from your description, while 3(d) become worse with every turn of fire-burning, 3(a) and 3(c) could not be changed quickly and 3(e) never changes[:)]




Alfred -> RE: Struggle with fire (11/9/2015 9:21:39 AM)

Over the course of a game 3(c) does change.  Engaging in combat can either increase or decrease crew experience.  Generally it increases it but if you look closely at combat you will notice that every so often a message appears that casualties (or words to that effect) have resulted.  When that happens it means the crew experience level declines.  In your situation, over the next few days your crew experience will not get better.

There is only one way of improving 3(b).  You have to get units with naval support squads to the port itself or within range of the port.  Quickest is to fly in some naval support.

The simple fact is that fire represents a real and present danger to any Japanese ship whereas it usually is not a problem for an
Allied ship.

Alfred




DmitryZ -> RE: Struggle with fire (11/9/2015 9:54:51 AM)

Thank you again!
I'm flying some additional naval support and having 700+ at the moment of Zuikaku arriving to port. But it seems, all measures are not enough. Fire at the same level, system damage increases and you are right, crew experience must downgrade too[X(]




Lowpe -> RE: Struggle with fire (11/9/2015 2:43:19 PM)

I believe fire fighting is also related to a ships speed or possibly fuel expenditure.

Ships set to cruise seem to perform the best at fighting fires and in general damage control. Flank is of course the worse.

However this may be correlated to extra system damage a ship incurs at higher speeds.

This is simply my anecdotal evidence. YMMV.[:)]




geofflambert -> RE: Struggle with fire (11/10/2015 7:46:41 PM)

I found this article giving an idea of the fire fighting capacity of NYC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireboats_of_New_York_City




geofflambert -> RE: Struggle with fire (11/10/2015 7:49:57 PM)

SF and LA too.

http://www.lafdmuseum.org/fireboat2




geofflambert -> RE: Struggle with fire (11/10/2015 7:57:59 PM)

Here's an article of some interest:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoga_(YT-146)




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