Out of Gas in the South (Full Version)

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gdrover -> Out of Gas in the South (12/1/2015 6:15:39 AM)

I'm playing and enjoying the game immensely. However, I'm having a problem that I hope someone can help me with.

I chose to play my first game 'without decisions' so that I could get the hang of it before adding in the extra degree of difficulty.
I'm doing well over-all: It's mid-September and Russian casualties are at 2.4 million. I've had some pretty epic encirclements (which is the real fun of a Barbarossa game to me)...the largest was 50 divisions!

I've been resting and refitting my Panzer Armees periodically, keeping my supply lines clear to my Panzer Armee HQ's, and playing cards that eliminate 'friction' in my logistical network, and took my Panzer Armees off Blitzkreig to conserve fuel.

My problem is that no matter what I do, I can't get almost any fuel to the Panzer Armee in AGS. AGC has 65,000 bbl, but I can never get a reserve of more than 1500 at the beginning of a turn in the South, and that's after a rest and refit where they didn't move for two turns.

Because I'm not playing with decisions, it appears that I cannot move my forward supply depot and that the game is abstracting the flow of supply.
Is this a bug, or what? The conditions of AGC and AGS are essentially the same, but I cannot seem to solve their fuel shortage.



battlevonwar -> RE: Out of Gas in the South (12/1/2015 6:25:44 AM)

I am in a game now with decisions an AGS is having a hard time staying fueled. There are a lot of mobile units in that Army Group and as you've penetrated further if your Forward Base hasn't been handled properly by the AI you'll have issues. You need your HQ within I believe it's 5 hexes of your units. Your HQ has to be on a Rail and I believe it's no more than 10 hexes from your Forward Base. So if you see your HQ is too far away from your forward base you're not getting gas.

The Green Trucks should be flowing and the rails should be on. Should not be grayed out.

Another point is you're simply unable to keep up the momentum and the AI has made decisions to allocate resources to other fronts. I have been out of gas for two turns in July for Army Group South despite having allocated a lot of PPs toward trucks/rails/fuel...etc...

BTW: Good job, so far you've done better than me, I have had a hard time getting mass pockets of Soviets... but I am learning the tactical side slow.

P.S. I failed to move my forward base up to meet my onslaught in time, it takes awhile for all things to catch up, check to see if a front line city has made itself a base on the rail line.. and keep your HQ on the Rail



zakblood -> RE: Out of Gas in the South (12/1/2015 6:28:48 AM)

ask for help, more trucks, more trains, more fuels, or more PP's etc, and always check for this button and make sure you have no friction in supply bases, then you will or should be fine, but with a harder difficulty level for using them, so less VP's in the end game


[image]local://upfiles/43185/6313641E402E4114B940BBE6230E2657.jpg[/image]



lancer -> RE: Out of Gas in the South (12/1/2015 6:31:37 AM)

Hi Glen,

Can you post a screenshot of your Daily AGS Theatre log so I can see the logistics part of the report?

Cheers,
Cameron



elmo3 -> RE: Out of Gas in the South (12/1/2015 10:18:01 AM)

I'm having the opposite problem playing as the Soviets. I've never seen a single Axis unit at less than 98% supply and I'm into the middle of September. Does the Axis AI "cheat" when it comes to supply when playing on Normal level? If it needs to cheat to play better I'm OK with that to a point, just trying to figure out how Axis units are never low on supply.



Remmes -> RE: Out of Gas in the South (12/1/2015 11:31:07 AM)

Isn't it so that the decision to move your FSB is made in the decisions tab? If so playing with 'decisions off' is pretty much a guarantee that there will be no FSB's pushed forward from main base and that you will outrun supply eventually.



Vic -> RE: Out of Gas in the South (12/1/2015 11:59:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3

I'm having the opposite problem playing as the Soviets. I've never seen a single Axis unit at less than 98% supply and I'm into the middle of September. Does the Axis AI "cheat" when it comes to supply when playing on Normal level? If it needs to cheat to play better I'm OK with that to a point, just trying to figure out how Axis units are never low on supply.


In fact the supply consumption icon does not refer to fuel. It refers to regular supplies like ammo, food and whatnot. The only way human or AI would have lower values there (that could be distorted in your display by FOW by the way) is if they get cut off from their supplies sources by encirclement or semi-encirclement+bad terrain.

And yes the AI is not likely to run out of oil. Like a human can chose to play with slightly different rules by choosing Decisions OFF the AI also plays with slightly different rules. Some are advantageous for it, like having more oil available, some give it limitations like not being able to focus its bonusses of PG focus cards, Stance cards and Tactical Air cards as humans would.

Best wishes,
Vic



elmo3 -> RE: Out of Gas in the South (12/1/2015 12:25:00 PM)

OK, thanks Vic. I thought of FOW but after multiple turns of not seeing anything less than 98% supply I had to assume the numbers were pretty accurate. But it's not fuel anyway so I can disregard those numbers.



Vic -> RE: Out of Gas in the South (12/1/2015 4:09:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3

OK, thanks Vic. I thought of FOW but after multiple turns of not seeing anything less than 98% supply I had to assume the numbers were pretty accurate. But it's not fuel anyway so I can disregard those numbers.


Don't disregard them. If you have enemy units encircled its a cost-effective strategy to wait a round or two untill this number start dropping. A low number here means very big combat penalties.

best wishes,
Vic



lancer -> RE: Out of Gas in the South (12/1/2015 9:03:55 PM)

Hi,

Decisions OFF features a more streamlined logistical system (which is necessary because a lot of it depends on the decisions).

There's a good video on this topic.

AGS is the most challenging theatre logistically and it's easy to trip up, especially at the start if you're not careful.

The second Logistics video covers this.

Cheers,
Cameron



gdrover -> RE: Out of Gas in the South (12/1/2015 10:18:16 PM)

The thing is that I've done everything that I can think of short of cheating (those special buttons).
I have a clear rail line to Kiev (which I own and would be my choice of where to put my FSB currently as my Panzer Armee is operating just southeast of there).

I have owned Kiev and a clear rail line to it since mid-August, so for about a month. I would have thought that the logistical 'friction' would have been solved by now. I have helped the situation by playing the cards that lower that friction a few times, but it doesn't seem to solve the problem.

It's especially odd since AGC is gushing gas at 65K, and with two very active panzer armees. Mu AGS panzer armee has been almost stopped (except the leg units) for weeks for lack of gas. Luckily the Soviets have been bashed, so my infantry armees have been able to keep things moving forward...I've just captured Kharkov and Kursk, but there is a large Soviet concentration still south and west of Kiev that I could easily cut off and chew up if I had my panzers. ;-)





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