Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (Full Version)

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abulbulian -> Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 3:46:06 PM)

I've just looked at a turn in which the AGN FSB was moved to Kaunas 2 turns ago. AGC(1 turn ago) and AGS(last turn) FSBs are on the move. BUT why is AGN not getting any trains showing on the map? Determine this was because I had inadvertely turedn off extra hex info. [:(] In fact no trains are showing anywehre and I thought I remember seeing trains (different color) even when FSB in the process of moving?

Either way AGN should be getting fuel and it's not [:(]. What am I suppose to do / think? I can attach a file if needed for dev to review if this is actually a bug.

Just to be clear. AGN FSB was working just fine the previous turn (green trains) and it was not moved again last turn. Where did it go?

thanks

[image]local://upfiles/16003/B1C780D18008423F9C344F6F2FE1728C.gif[/image]



abulbulian -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 3:58:23 PM)

Note: players involved both upgrade to beta 1.0.1 two turns ago.



willgamer -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 4:36:08 PM)

WAD- 8 days/2 turns offline when FSB is moved... [X(]



abulbulian -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 4:40:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willgamer

WAD- 8 days/2 turns offline when FSB is moved... [X(]



Umm, lol, no. Not WAD. You don't understand, AGN FSB was moved 4 turns ago. It came back online fully last turn. Did you not look at the screen shot?? "Quartermaster: Kaunas FSB fully operational..."

Definitely not WAD. The bug here is why does the main depot have 0 bbls fuel? It's only July 12th and I've been choosing paths to give me more fuel later in the game as well.

As I said originally, AGC and AGS FSB are on the move. Have fuel sitting on their main depots, just pipeline is suspended until moved. I get that. Had to deal with two turns of no fuel to AGN 3 and 2 turns ago. So I know how it works when moving an FSB.



willgamer -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 5:00:11 PM)

Manual p.183-

"Once an option is chosen there will be a delay, usually 8 days (two turns, including the current one), while the FSB is relocated. The further the new FSB site is from the current, the longer the delay you can expect".

YMMV! [;)]



abulbulian -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 5:36:04 PM)

I fairly sure the issue is around the main depot for AGN having no fuel. The train and truck routes appear to be fine.

turn x : moved AGN FSB to Kaunas (was told would take 8 days = 2 turns)
turn x+1 : AGN FSB on the move - no fuel
turn x+2 : AGN FSB on the move - no fuel
turn x+3 : AGN FSB arrived in Kaunas - fuel now coming into Kaunas by train and trucks to 4th PZ Grp HQ
turn x+4 : AGN FSB moving fuel from depot - no issues
turn x+5 (July 12th) - NO FUEL AT MAIN DEPOT (WHY??) - thus nothing to move -- see my initial post screen shot showing this



[image]local://upfiles/16003/C10B596F64D941B997C48A42759BCA73.gif[/image]



stonestriker -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 6:12:00 PM)

I assume that whatever fuel was stockpiled during the move of the FSB at X+1 and X+2 was moved in X+3 and X+4. As the all the incoming fuel from ZI could be transported in X+5, then nothing remains as it is all in the hands of your PG.

1 quota required just 5 trains and 9 trucks, and you have 18 trains and 179 trucks. So you probably moved everything on X+3, and just have a really low fuel "income" for AGN?



willgamer -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 6:14:23 PM)

When the logistics are working well (green) the main depot and FSBs are SUPPOSED to be grey, having passed all the fuel they received along... again WAD.

The issue is, did you PG4 receive the fuel; the Logistics AGN report would be helpful.

[:)]



abulbulian -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 6:38:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willgamer

When the logistics are working well (green) the main depot and FSBs are SUPPOSED to be grey, having passed all the fuel they received along... again WAD.

The issue is, did you PG4 receive the fuel; the Logistics AGN report would be helpful.

[:)]


Willgamer, please re-read the thread. I can't help you if you don't understand.




abulbulian -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 6:41:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stonestriker

I assume that whatever fuel was stockpiled during the move of the FSB at X+1 and X+2 was moved in X+3 and X+4. As the all the incoming fuel from ZI could be transported in X+5, then nothing remains as it is all in the hands of your PG.

1 quota required just 5 trains and 9 trucks, and you have 18 trains and 179 trucks. So you probably moved everything on X+3, and just have a really low fuel "income" for AGN?



Are you serious? No, this is not WAD. Once again, I'm not sure why this is not registering with some of you. The AGN depot has 0 bbls on July 12th. That is not WAD, that is not even close to historical. Why would the AGN fuel stocks be cut off on the July 12th turn. That is WHAT needs explaining. If you don't have an answer to this question, you are not helping this thread. Just diluting it.



Vic -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 7:21:16 PM)

@abulb,

Cameron will have to answer this one.

Its sunday in Australia, but he might very well pop-in. Hold on!

Best wishes,
Vic



Templer_12 -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 7:30:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

@abulb,

Cameron will have to answer this one.

Its sunday in Australia, but he might very well pop-in. Hold on!

Best wishes,
Vic


After he had ridden his Kangaroo and has fed his budgies.



abulbulian -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 7:44:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

@abulb,

Cameron will have to answer this one.

Its sunday in Australia, but he might very well pop-in. Hold on!

Best wishes,
Vic



Thanks Vic, I look forward to his response.



willgamer -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 8:13:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

... Once again, I'm not sure why this is not registering with some of you. ...


I'm going with because you're so good at explaining the problem. Plus you apparently can't be bothered to supply other relevant reports, i.e. Logistics AGN.

You do get that people are trying to help you, right? [sm=character0229.gif]



lancer -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 10:06:50 PM)

Hi Abulbulian,

Given the information you've provided above it's all O.K

Here's the play as it happened.

quote:

turn x : moved AGN FSB to Kaunas (was told would take 8 days = 2 turns)
turn x+1 : AGN FSB on the move - no fuel
turn x+2 : AGN FSB on the move - no fuel
turn x+3 : AGN FSB arrived in Kaunas - fuel now coming into Kaunas by train and trucks to 4th PZ Grp HQ
turn x+4 : AGN FSB moving fuel from depot - no issues
turn x+5 (July 12th) - NO FUEL AT MAIN DEPOT (WHY??) - thus nothing to move -- see my initial post screen shot showing this


You've ordered the FSB relocated to Kaunas. It says two days which, as above, happened.

Once an FSB relocates and is up and running there is a further period of consolidation which prevents you from moving it again until it is 'fully operational'. This is to stop players from bouncing FSB's around the map willy nilly which wasn't feasible on the day as doing so was a major undertaking.

On turn 3 with your FSB up and running, fuel starts flowing. As fuel arrives each turn at the main depot there would be a backlog built up over the two turns it took to relocate your FSB. It's likely that the colour of your FSB and Main depot icons was something other than grey.

By turn 5 onwards the backlog has been cleared and everything is back to normal which is seen in the screen shot you've given above. Normal is for your fuel allocation to arrive at your Main depot and flow through your pipeline to your PG HQ. As everything is flowing (eg. from the tap to the end of the garden hose and out the nozzle) both your Main depot and FSB icons show as grey. There's no fuel there as it's gone straight through your pipeline to the HQ.

The only time you'd get your main depot or FSB icons showing non-grey colours is when there is a blockage in the pipeline (or a kink in your garden hose). Some, or all, of the fuel can't get through the pipeline and it starts stockpiling up at the relevant base. Relocating your FSB shuts down your pipeline so the fuel backs up at the Main depot.

Once your new FSB is functioning and the pipeline 'unkinked' the big gush of fuel coming through might result in a backlog at your FSB as you don't have enough truck capacity to handle the volume (eg. the diameter of your garden hose is to small for the volume of water you're trying to push down it).

You can get a better idea of this by looking at your logistical reports. The video 'Logistics 1' in the help tab also gives a good run down on this.

Cheers,
Cameron




etsadler -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 10:22:16 PM)

Abulbulian,

While I agree that some posters have not offered much beyond "Yep, WAD!" which can be quite annoying, I also think that you have not supplied enough information to be sure of the issue.

The Main Depot will frequently have no fuel, because it will have distributed all its fuel to the associated PGs. To tell if that is the case here it would be very helpful to know:

What was the fuel situation at the end of the prior turn (amount with the PGs and amount in the Depot)?
What was the fuel allocation to AGN this turn (The Daily Log Staff)?

This information would tell a lot.

For example, if you had run down the PGs fuel to zero the turn before, and the turn before there was say 1000 fuel at the depot, and your allocation was 2000 fuel, then you would have started the turn with 3000, lost 1500 to being in Blitzkrieg posture (assumption) and had the remaining 1500 distributed to the PGs, leaving zero at the depot.

But without knowing the situation at the end of the prior turn it is not possible to reconstruct this. That is the most help I can offer without that additional information.



abulbulian -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 10:35:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lancer

Hi Abulbulian,

Given the information you've provided above it's all O.K

Here's the play as it happened.

quote:

turn x : moved AGN FSB to Kaunas (was told would take 8 days = 2 turns)
turn x+1 : AGN FSB on the move - no fuel
turn x+2 : AGN FSB on the move - no fuel
turn x+3 : AGN FSB arrived in Kaunas - fuel now coming into Kaunas by train and trucks to 4th PZ Grp HQ
turn x+4 : AGN FSB moving fuel from depot - no issues
turn x+5 (July 12th) - NO FUEL AT MAIN DEPOT (WHY??) - thus nothing to move -- see my initial post screen shot showing this


You've ordered the FSB relocated to Kaunas. It says two days which, as above, happened.

Once an FSB relocates and is up and running there is a further period of consolidation which prevents you from moving it again until it is 'fully operational'. This is to stop players from bouncing FSB's around the map willy nilly which wasn't feasible on the day as doing so was a major undertaking.

On turn 3 with your FSB up and running, fuel starts flowing. As fuel arrives each turn at the main depot there would be a backlog built up over the two turns it took to relocate your FSB. It's likely that the colour of your FSB and Main depot icons was something other than grey.

By turn 5 onwards the backlog has been cleared and everything is back to normal which is seen in the screen shot you've given above. Normal is for your fuel allocation to arrive at your Main depot and flow through your pipeline to your PG HQ. As everything is flowing (eg. from the tap to the end of the garden hose and out the nozzle) both your Main depot and FSB icons show as grey. There's no fuel there as it's gone straight through your pipeline to the HQ.

The only time you'd get your main depot or FSB icons showing non-grey colours is when there is a blockage in the pipeline (or a kink in your garden hose). Some, or all, of the fuel can't get through the pipeline and it starts stockpiling up at the relevant base. Relocating your FSB shuts down your pipeline so the fuel backs up at the Main depot.

Once your new FSB is functioning and the pipeline 'unkinked' the big gush of fuel coming through might result in a backlog at your FSB as you don't have enough truck capacity to handle the volume (eg. the diameter of your garden hose is to small for the volume of water you're trying to push down it).

You can get a better idea of this by looking at your logistical reports. The video 'Logistics 1' in the help tab also gives a good run down on this.

Cheers,
Cameron




Cameron,

Thanks but I understand all this about moving the FSB and the hose analogy. However, we're not addressing the elephant in the room. WHY is there no fuel at the main depot for AGN on July 12th? Once again see my original screen shot. How after 3 weeks of Barbarossa could AGN get no fuel? Makes no sense. The Germans had decent reserves for several months. It was the transport which became more of the issue. However, it's not the pipeline in my case, but rather nothing to carry in that pipeline.

<SIGH>



abulbulian -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 10:36:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RickInVA

Abulbulian,

While I agree that some posters have not offered much beyond "Yep, WAD!" which can be quite annoying, I also think that you have not supplied enough information to be sure of the issue.

The Main Depot will frequently have no fuel, because it will have distributed all its fuel to the associated PGs. To tell if that is the case here it would be very helpful to know:

What was the fuel situation at the end of the prior turn (amount with the PGs and amount in the Depot)?
What was the fuel allocation to AGN this turn (The Daily Log Staff)?

This information would tell a lot.

For example, if you had run down the PGs fuel to zero the turn before, and the turn before there was say 1000 fuel at the depot, and your allocation was 2000 fuel, then you would have started the turn with 3000, lost 1500 to being in Blitzkrieg posture (assumption) and had the remaining 1500 distributed to the PGs, leaving zero at the depot.

But without knowing the situation at the end of the prior turn it is not possible to reconstruct this. That is the most help I can offer without that additional information.



Thanks Rick,
You seem to be the first one to actually come close to understanding the issue. I'll provide you what you need.



lancer -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 10:40:28 PM)

Hi abulbulian,

Nope, no elephants here.

The main depot receives a fuel allowance from the Zone Interior each turn and, if your logistical pipeline is all working nicely, it's pumped through the system to the PG HQ in the same turn.

The tool tip in your original screenshot is showing you this.

To get a better idea of the flow of fuel take a look at the Logistical report for AGN. You'll see the fuel allowance arrive and see it all going out the door, down the pipeline, during the same turn.

As things stand you'll be in line for a 5 star logistical evaluation as you've got everything humming along nicely.

Cheers,
Cameron



abulbulian -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 10:43:16 PM)

quote:

What was the fuel situation at the end of the prior turn (amount with the PGs and amount in the Depot)?


Answer

End of the turn screen shot. So the question now becomes, how often is the main depot restocked with fuel bbls?



[image]local://upfiles/16003/9568592CEFD742ACAA77EDC0AE5B51AF.gif[/image]



lancer -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 10:47:38 PM)

Hi Abulbulian,

The report, like them all, is for the situation at the start of the turn. As are the logistical icons.

The logistical routines run once per turn, so restock and a full information & icon update occur at the start of each turn.

Cheers,
Cameron



abulbulian -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 10:50:26 PM)

quote:

What was the fuel allocation to AGN this turn (The Daily Log Staff)?


Answer

Looks like the depot for AGN was dry to start the July 12th turn. Once again this was my stated issue from the start of this thread. Not sure why, but maybe for some odd reason the game only restocks the fuel every x turns? The discussing on whether this game accurately depicts the German fuel reserves for Barbarossa is another topic of discussion. I'll do some more research on that before I bring it up again.

So again, please somebody tell me why DC3 has no fuel showing up at the AGN depot on July 12th. I ordered this game when it came out, so if I had my manual (book) by now maybe I could have know about the rules better.. [:(]

[image]local://upfiles/16003/DDBEEA50CFA84197AA1AE5208A79BC65.gif[/image]



abulbulian -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 10:53:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lancer

Hi Abulbulian,

The report, like them all, is for the situation at the start of the turn. As are the logistical icons.

The logistical routines run once per turn, so restock and a full information & icon update occur at the start of each turn.

Cheers,
Cameron



oh my. So here's what I think happened.

2,860 fuel came in to a starting depot of 0. Since in blitzkrieg mode there's a tax of 2000 bbls. That leaves only 860 that would be left for AGN. So the question is why is AGN getting such a low amount and how soon do people change posture out of blitzkrieg. Seems very expensive and also seems odd the Germans get slowed down so early in the campaign in this fashion.



willgamer -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/5/2015 11:09:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RickInVA

While I agree that some posters have not offered much beyond "Yep, WAD!" which can be quite annoying, I also think that you have not supplied enough information to be sure of the issue.



Actually, most of time it was yep, WAD, check the Logistics AGN report. This key report indeed provides plenty of information to explain the issue.

Not wanting to re-ignite the issue, just trying to highlight one of the more important reports- Logistics AGx.

[sm=00000924.gif]



lancer -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/7/2015 8:26:40 AM)

Hi Abulbulian,

Blitzkrieg bonus provides some very big bonuses, especially for the Panzergruppes (+50% offensive combat bonus, +40 AP). It doesn't come for free.

AGN was the poor cousin of the three theatres. Fuel was an issue there very early on. Luftwaffe resupply can help if you can manage to roll your AGN airbase forward and stay in touch with 4th PG.

Changing postures back to 'Sustained Offensive' will take away the extra 2000 bbls fuel expenditure. Action cards tab - Postures.

Cheers,
Cameron



stonestriker -> RE: Possible FSB bug - not moved (1.0.1 beta) (12/7/2015 8:35:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

quote:

ORIGINAL: stonestriker

I assume that whatever fuel was stockpiled during the move of the FSB at X+1 and X+2 was moved in X+3 and X+4. As the all the incoming fuel from ZI could be transported in X+5, then nothing remains as it is all in the hands of your PG.

1 quota required just 5 trains and 9 trucks, and you have 18 trains and 179 trucks. So you probably moved everything on X+3, and just have a really low fuel "income" for AGN?



Are you serious? No, this is not WAD. Once again, I'm not sure why this is not registering with some of you. The AGN depot has 0 bbls on July 12th. That is not WAD, that is not even close to historical. Why would the AGN fuel stocks be cut off on the July 12th turn. That is WHAT needs explaining. If you don't have an answer to this question, you are not helping this thread. Just diluting it.


Wow, I read your post and attempt to answer you question. I might not have understood your question, or you might not have understood my answer, but there is no reason for this type of reply.



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