RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (Full Version)

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zakblood -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/15/2016 6:34:31 AM)

some seen to forget, that all games have problems on some hardware / software, doesn't matter if it's the smallest developer or the largest, all use patches and updates and those who have bought the game to make it better, if you don't wish to do this, that's fine, but please understand that all games on any platform are like this now days, and tbh have been like it since day one, as there's just to many versions of hardware and software combo's out there to possible test them all, you use a operating system that is constantly updated with fixes and improvements the more that use it, or comment on it after something has gone wrong or didn't work etc, also things alter or work differently on different setups regarding hardware / software, understand this and everyone is happy, don't understand this then maybe wait a year or so for some games to develop, no matter what developer or game market you like, as it doesn't just apply to pc war games, i was on the Alpha / Beta for xbox one destiny and more than a few other titles, so may know more about it than some, less maybe than others and know as well as any also how frustrating something is once bought to not work when it does fine on other peoples set up, been there done that and worn the t-shirt on many occasions[:D] [;)]

if 100 buy it and 10 post it doesn't work, then poor design and testing, if 1000 but it and 10 post it doesn't work, then maybe hardware / software combo, if only 1000 buy it but your the handful it doesn't work for, then it's bad luck but no need to take it as a personnel attack as nobody wishes anything to be released and not work for everyone, but it's a dream if it goes that way, but in the real world, hiccups happen, steam released a update a few weeks back that stopped 10 of k plus games from working, it's life and i'm sure they also didn't mean to do it.



Queeg -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/15/2016 3:31:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

some seen to forget, that all games have problems on some hardware / software, doesn't matter if it's the smallest developer or the largest, all use patches and updates and those who have bought the game to make it better, if you don't wish to do this, that's fine, but please understand that all games on any platform are like this now days, and tbh have been like it since day one, as there's just to many versions of hardware and software combo's out there to possible test them all, you use a operating system that is constantly updated with fixes and improvements the more that use it, or comment on it after something has gone wrong or didn't work etc, also things alter or work differently on different setups regarding hardware / software, understand this and everyone is happy, don't understand this then maybe wait a year or so for some games to develop, no matter what developer or game market you like, as it doesn't just apply to pc war games, i was on the Alpha / Beta for xbox one destiny and more than a few other titles, so may know more about it than some, less maybe than others and know as well as any also how frustrating something is once bought to not work when it does fine on other peoples set up, been there done that and worn the t-shirt on many occasions[:D] [;)]



This is one of those statements that makes perfect sense so long as you don't think about it.

Yes, there are myriad varieties of PCs, hardware, etc. But that's true for every other AGEOD game; indeed, for every game here. But the fact remains that WoN has had a greater frequency of CTDs on release than any other AGEOD game, and worse than most other games here. It's not as if global PC hardware suddenly changed in the last six months. Sorry, but the change was a decline in AGEOD's quality control for this game.

More importantly, the vast majority of the problems with the game - as you surely know if you've been paying attention - have nothing to do with PC hardware or Martians or whatever other excuse you might want to make up. Events don't fire at all, or delete entire corps when they do, because they're poorly coded. Units wander the map aimlessly because the AI hasn't been coded to deal with multi-front, multi-national campaigns. Diplomatic messages go unanswered because the AI hasn't been coded to understand and conduct diplomacy. Turn times are far longer than they need be because the game has been coded to search thousands of database entries each turn (even data that isn't even relevant based on the current game date). And then there are several small, but amateurish, glitches: the game ships with missing artwork, they issue a patch with a faulty installation path - mistakes that would embarass your average preteen modder. Sorry, but these aren't things that work fine for some but not for others based on hardware pecularities. They're mistakes.

Please don't patronize us. So if only we were more sophisticated, and were blessed with your worldly knowledge of the gaming industry, then we'd understand that broken is OK? Nice try.





zakblood -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/15/2016 3:47:00 PM)

fair point and comments tbh Queeg, i work as a beta tester to try and make things better for everyone, while i didn't work on this game, i'm sure plenty did and are still trying to sort out any issues that others are having, my comments aren't meant to patronize but to help and also say what is broken will get fixed, what's wrong will get patched and what doesn't work will do in the end, but not all gets sorted right away, first some like your self need to point a few more things out game play wise first, put yourself forward as i'm sure your time would be rewarded in a better game for all, as isn't that what we all want in the end?

fixes done so far, and now up to date in the latest beta release on the 13th of Jan 2016...

Engine improvements and fixes
AI
Minor nations won't go outside their home territory, unless under direct control by a major nation.
AI should concentrate forces more often. Work in progress!
Allied AIs will be much less prone to wander in others allied territories, if there is no threat there.
Lone leaders will much more rarely go on tourist tour, and if they do it should be quick!

Interface
when using ally requests window, you can now see the value the AI gives to regions in the region tooltip.
Revised how units are sorted and displayed in the unit panel, at the bottom of the interface.

Diplomacy
Liberating a nation will make them your ally (or if France/Great Britain, part of your Alliance or Coalition)
Minor nations should reply more often to requests. (They could have been 'dormant' if at peace, before).

Strait and passing fire
Forts will now fire only on ships passing in "designated regions".
All rivers and "estuaries", Dardanelles/Bosphore, and Neva Mouth are "designated"
There is also some chance that passing ships will evade fort fire. You will see a message if this occurs.
Gibraltar will no longer fire at the straits! Ships passing in Coastal Waters will no longer be fired upon!

Grand campaign balances and fixes
* Revised (and slightly reduced) cost in WSU and made balance between different units (arty and ships are proportionals)
* Improved WSU production for most nations (+added some production sites)
* Added an option to buy WSU (100) in exchange of Money (1000)
* Fixed movement cost in Alpine terrain that were erroneous
* Added more explanations in the tooltips for NM choices (options)
* Revised new France satellite nations crations to avoid ejection of French allies upon creation.
* Changed some naval OOB (Spanish Cartagena squadron, Russian caspian fleet)

* Fixed some more issues and territory transfers in Pressburg peace
* Fixed missing strings as per Forum remarks

* Revised initial 1805 Force Pools (to remove units otherwise created by options)

* Revised some RGD's renewal (you no longer get RGD's if you don't have the corresponding national modifiers)
* Added an event that will allow GBR to negotiate peace with France after London has fallen (generic peace via the diplomatic engine, a more specific peace treaty will be designed for a future patch after forum discussions are complete on the matter)


January 5th

Grand Campaigns
Changed all SOL and warships to shoot at a lower range, added some better protection on some ships , added 10% capture chance on SOL ships
Fixed errors in leaders titles
More Spanish Ulcer events (Entrevue de Bayonne, French Spain)
Fixed some issues with Pressburg peace (thks Vicberg)
Revised Options (Military and Econmic) to lower to 10% of initial value the coast in WSU (current bottleneck), plus added greater AI chance to select them
Fixed missing strings (Saxony changes sides 1806) and various recent forum remarks

Diplomacy
Formed nations don't propose new treaties
fixed a bug in exp forces creating issue in diplomacy

AI
Several smaller improvements in AI scripts for the campaigns, while waiting for deeper changes. Need a restart.


December 21st


Events
Improved Spanish Ulcer events
Fixed buggy event on leaders

Decisions
Fix to the siege works decision

December 19th

Diplomacy
Fixed an issue in defensive treaty not added properly
When making peace, you'll always get a passage right and supply right treaty for 24 turns.
Countries without owned regions don't DOW anyone. There is a limit to stupidity.
Expeditionary forces and fleets can be aborted if there is no common foe.

Map
The weird zoo with flying whales and swimming camels has been removed. This entry is part of the contest of 'strangest patch note in a video game' for year 2015.

Engine
Color-coding: If you don't want the engine to use faction main color in tooltip, edit the text file NGC\settings\userinterface.opt, there is an entry named inoCommonTTColor:
Set the value to 1, like here: inoCommonTTColor = 1

AI
AI will be much less prone to sent stacks without frontline units in non controlled territories

Interface & additional graphics
Can type space when renaming a game. Can close same window with <enter> key
Further refined 'play the anthem' logic on load game and new turn jingle
You'll always see all 7 major nations (Ottomans included even if technically they are a disorganized major) in objectives screen.
Added Missing Bocage graphics
Fixed Neapolitans missing units images
Added graphics on map for the key structures so players can identify important locations + added tooltips (need new campaign)

Campaign setups and historical events
(several fixes done by Vicberg) - if an event has not happened, the patch will updated it, otherwise you need to start a new game.

Pressburg peace further improved
Hannover can now be fully annexed by France. Will impact negatively relationships with Prussia and a few German minor states.
Firenze/Tuscany can now be fully annexed by France. Will impact negatively relationships with Austria, Spain and a few Italian minor states.
Papacy can now be fully annexed by France. Will impact negatively (and severely) relationships with Austria, Spain and a Sicily kingdom.
Several fixes on events (like HRE or Kingdom of Holland)
Fixes to Tilsit Treaty
Added specific "leader" (the rock) and defensive unit for Gibraltar fortress
Added Czar Paul I (for potential variant)
Revised 1805 campaign OOB and cities (a few added) + Hannover occupied in 1805 (since Atlenburg Convention of 1803 it is under French occupation)
Beefed up significantly Gibraltar defenses (and terrain is now alpine, making Assaults more difficults)
Improve Invasion of Russia events (including beefed up AI)
Improved Flavor events adding new armies to nations during campaign

Units and battle balancing
Changed all Arty models to decrease Damage inflicted through fire and Assault
Changed all Guards models which were 500% better than regulars in Assault hits. Now more inline with reality (120 à 150% max)
Reduced the CbtHit chance to 125/50 (was 400/80 before for fire/assault) in gamelogic
Revised all structures setup for GC to better balance locations and dispersion, as well as mix



Queeg -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/15/2016 3:55:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

fair point and comments tbh Queeg, i work as a beta tester to try and make things better for everyone, while i didn't work on this game, i'm sure plenty did and are still trying to sort out any issues that others are having, my comments aren't meant to patronize but to help and also say what is broken will get fixed, what's wrong will get patched and what doesn't work will do in the end, but not all gets sorted right away, first some like your self need to point a few more things out game play wise first, put yourself forward as i'm sure your time would be rewarded in a better game for all, as isn't that what we all want in the end?


Thanks. I agree we're all in this together. If I didn't care about their games, I wouldn't take the time to post here.

quote:

fixes done so far, and now up to date in the latest beta release on the 13th of Jan 2016...




Certainly, no one works harder than than these guys. That's never been the issue. I just hope they can find some time, amidst the endless treadmill of patches, to objectively assess their game engine and perhaps seek some outside input.



Pocus -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/18/2016 10:03:10 AM)

This we did! As you might know, it has been announced at HOW 2015, the Slitherine summer convention, that Ageod will get a new engine in 2016-2017. This engine, named 'Archon Engine' is developed internally in Slitherine-Canada (even if that is not an official designation [;)] ).



Queeg -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/18/2016 3:06:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pocus

This we did! As you might know, it has been announced at HOW 2015, the Slitherine summer convention, that Ageod will get a new engine in 2016-2017. This engine, named 'Archon Engine' is developed internally in Slitherine-Canada (even if that is not an official designation [;)] ).


That's great to hear! I'm all for anything that makes your life easier and helps you continue to produce great games.



Jacekim -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/19/2016 11:41:09 AM)

I completely agree with Queeg. This is the first Ageod's game I didn't buy instantly. After reading about so many (non)playable factions, and having in mind previous experience, I assumed it would be plagued by different sort of bugs, obscure mechanics and poor manual which heavily borrows from previous titles. Judging by forum comments, by resisting initial urge to buy, I made right decision.

< Message edited by Emir Agic -- 1/14/2016 3:01:51 PM >

I should have checked the the Forums as Emir did!! If I had, I would have waited (or not bought it at all).
I am a vivid wargamer and have my eye on several of AGEOD titels (Barbarossa) BUT there is no way I will buy another game that is this bugged!
It is very frustrating and as somebody mentioned in this thread , I do not have time to invest in a campaign game that has crucial event is bugged and then restart it (again).
Am playing France Grand Campaign and neither the HRE or the Peace with Austria do not happen even though all the conditions are fulfilled.
This game is going on the shelf until the bigs are gone!



76mm -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/19/2016 11:46:58 AM)

I haven't bought this game, and other than the various issues raised in this thread, one of the things holding me back is that the manual does not sound very thorough, which is pretty odd since the same engine has been used for how many games now?

I would think that the engine would be very thoroughly documented by now...



Pocus -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/19/2016 2:58:05 PM)

A few things are not updated to the novelties of the game but there is now an errata you can download from the Ageod Forum



zakblood -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/19/2016 3:08:01 PM)

WON Manual Errata Dec 27, 2015

pdf upload file zipped and shared

in txt format here, but on here it's the pdf 

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?41756-Manual-Errata



thanks Pocus for the hard work as always[&o]




TDefender -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/19/2016 3:28:11 PM)

"P55: Delayed movement is not available in this game." Mmhh is something definitive or you're going to fix it in the future?



76mm -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/20/2016 9:10:54 PM)

I'm not talking about errata, I'm talking about all of the issues (mainly on the AGEOD forum) where people are asking questions about what seem like fairly basic issues after saying something like "I couldn't find anything about this in the manual...".



Pocus -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/25/2016 3:05:46 PM)

Manuals are done by definition using beta version, sometime months in advance, so sadly in this case you are right, the feature 'delay' has been cut out for release. But corps help each others in adjacent regions, so they can support each other even if not arriving exactly in the destination region.



MarshalAl -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (1/30/2016 7:39:33 PM)

I bought the game 48hrs ago. I've never played an ageod game before but this one looked interesting. Having read this thread I have to say I agree with many of the posts.

1. I've already had several crashes whilst trying out scenarios, despite ensuring I'm on latest version.

2. The tutorials are a joke if they're an attempt to explain game mechanics and how to get started playing the game. The narration is spoken far too fast, and is more of a game commentary than guidance.

3. The manual may detail how the game works (or not, no idea yet). What it doesn't do is explain to a newbie how to get going. Not even sample first turns.

No-one would buy any other product with inherent faults and poor user instruction . Its one of the most frustrating games I've bought, but because the game looks like it has massive potential I'm giving it a chance. For another 48hrs. If I hit more crashes I will be very tempted to give up the game and claim a refund (UK Consumer Rights Act allows supplier one chance at a fix via patch, after which full refund is required). Possibly buying the game if it gets better reports in a years time.



freeboy -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (2/11/2016 5:28:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Queeg


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pocus

This we did! As you might know, it has been announced at HOW 2015, the Slitherine summer convention, that Ageod will get a new engine in 2016-2017. This engine, named 'Archon Engine' is developed internally in Slitherine-Canada (even if that is not an official designation [;)] ).


That's great to hear! I'm all for anything that makes your life easier and helps you continue to produce great games.

now a dream come true.. introduce backward compatibility to older titles with teh new engine...



pzgndr -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (2/11/2016 12:46:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pocus
Manuals are done by definition using beta version


Electronic pdf manual updates could/should be provided in the official patch releases to keep up with changes. Editing the source document, saving it as a pdf, and including it in the patch build is pretty easy to do these days. Frankly, there is no good excuse for 21st century game developers to not do this.



freeboy -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (2/11/2016 3:17:01 PM)

so, I have split my ageod games.. some of these are great.. first BOA and some tragicly unplayable boring PON etc...

After these patches do folks here fin WON a playable game ?

and

Is it easily played as a two player game?

Thanks ... not trying to high jack but think its relevant to the title.... feeling like a bete tester etc ..
again thanks for any helpful answers



76mm -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (2/21/2016 4:56:41 PM)

quote:

Electronic pdf manual updates could/should be provided in the official patch releases to keep up with changes. Editing the source document, saving it as a pdf, and including it in the patch build is pretty easy to do these days. Frankly, there is no good excuse for 21st century game developers to not do this

+1

Especially when the game engine is as mature as this one supposedly is.



morganbj -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (2/23/2016 1:13:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

Electronic pdf manual updates could/should be provided in the official patch releases to keep up with changes. Editing the source document, saving it as a pdf, and including it in the patch build is pretty easy to do these days. Frankly, there is no good excuse for 21st century game developers to not do this

+1

Especially when the game engine is as mature as this one supposedly is.

I'm convinced is not the engine itself, rather it's the script system. When there are errors in the scripts it causes the engine to do something that forces the crash.



Omnius -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (4/2/2016 6:44:42 PM)

I just had a fatal CTD playing a simple version of Sealion with the latest March 24, 2016 beta patch. I played each side as human by saving the game before exiting to the main menu to load it up as the other side. I only moved units around London and the French transport fleet to pick up the two corps in France and order them to land in Dover. I had Napoleon on London winning a defensive battle after winning a offensive one the prior turn. He was besieging London. After resolution the game bombed on me fatally, none of the other prior two turns would load.

Very disappointing that such a simple test turned out so tragically. I sure hope the game gets stable soon as I want to play the historical 1/1805 campaign solo PBEM. It looks like I'll wait until there's another official update before trying any game that's critical. The saved game file system is really atrocious! We can't change filenames in game even though there's a command line that says so.

I did my duty posting the files and a bug report in the tech support section. I had to laugh at seeing a reply by a top AGEOD official telling someone on the AGEOD forum that the 3/24/2016 patch was safe, what a joke! I keep having small CTD issues and am disappointed WoN is not ready for prime time.



kev_uk -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester....... I have already done ! (4/3/2016 12:15:55 AM)

It is buggy, but there is good potential within the game. I remember with RUS it took time to get the patches out, and I was using AI mods on that game that added to its appeal. I have faith in Ageod,the game actually is great and very historical if you can cure the CTDs (I did, check the tech support forum - mine works now). Give it time - patience is a virtue, esp. making a game so complex for probabaly such a niche market. Oh, there is a GC mod called Enhanced Diplomacy - the person working on it is trying to make WoN more interesting and workable.



Omnius -> No SSD's? (4/3/2016 2:14:05 PM)

I saw your post on the tech support forum. I too have an SSD and hope that I don't have to do the same trick of installing on the SATA drive.



warspite1 -> RE: I feel like a Beta Tester........I have already done (4/3/2016 2:21:02 PM)

.



kev_uk -> RE: No SSD's? (4/3/2016 9:23:42 PM)

That is interesting if it was my low-space SSD, my audio drivers being not compatable for a 64 bit system, or something to do with Windows 10 Defender and Firewall - I added exceptions to those, installed on my storage SATA drive (with a ton more space) etc. But whatever, it does not crash anymore, but it still lags on a 4GB Nvidia GTX960. But managable. Maybe it is to do with the Win10 admin permissions, etc. I have no idea.



Omnius -> Treaty of Pressburg Bug (4/5/2016 2:57:00 PM)

I just found and reported a very nasty bug that causes French corps to disappear from the map due to a faulty displacement feature. Playing as France against the Artificial Ignorances to learn how the game works I got to where I had Wien caputured along with most every city south and east of Wien and was wondering why the Austrian AI wasn't responding to my peace offers.

I then found the Treaty of Pressburg decree so activated that. I still wasn't getting any reaction from the Austrian AI so decided to play Austria after saving the game. I found Austria has a Treaty of Pressburg decree as well so activated it and saved the game so Austria would take a peace offer.

Next turn Wien is back to being Austrian and Nappy and some corps at Wien were magically displaced to Passau in Bavaria along with a corp at Linz. A corp at Memingen also was displaced into another region of Bavaria. However all of my corps south and east of Wien in places like Graz just disappeared, they weren't displaced anywhere. What happened to the 24 turn right of passage to allow for victorious units to exit the recently conquered country?

Of course there are multiple CTD's where I have to go back a turn, so I make sure to always save before ending a turn.

I have a new super fast gaming computer that seems to be a waste on AGEOD games and the obsolete game system that ignores the existence of Windows 10. I have to run the game in Windows 7 emulation mode and even though I have the game exe running as the administrator I get error messages suggesting I do that.

This game should not have been released yet, it's still a very buggy beta perversion!



Omnius -> Windows 7 Compatibilty Mode? (4/5/2016 3:00:06 PM)

kev_uk,
Have you tried running in Windows 7 compatibility mode? That's what I'm doing on my new super fast gaming computer. I'll have to delete my game and reinstall it on my SATA drive too as it appears that SSD's are just too fast or modern for this ancient, obsolete game system. I'm really disappointed that it won't properly in 4K.



kev_uk -> RE: Treaty of Pressburg Bug (4/5/2016 3:04:23 PM)

I did learn a lesson that to get the territory, use the Decree to make peace with Austria. I have tried using the diplomacy screen making peace, but I never received Venice etc. I agree, it is not that clear. I am using a mod found over at the Ageod forums called Enhanced Diplomacy which so far has been proven to be better at a lot of things. But I would try and get those CTDs fixed. I think it could well be Windows 10 baggage, but I have no idea.



kev_uk -> RE: Windows 7 Compatibilty Mode? (4/5/2016 3:10:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnius

kev_uk,
Have you tried running in Windows 7 compatibility mode? That's what I'm doing on my new super fast gaming computer. I'll have to delete my game and reinstall it on my SATA drive too as it appears that SSD's are just too fast or modern for this ancient, obsolete game system. I'm really disappointed that it won't properly in 4K.


Nope, I have no problem with the game apart from lag now. It works. It is deep, finding it fun, I get a good feeling when I turn the flanks as Napoleon against the Austrians, and now I am slaughtering the Prussians. Check your Decrees often, and read the messages after each turn. Good luck.



Omnius -> A Game Late! (4/5/2016 3:11:10 PM)

Pocus,
About time you at AGEOD get with the new times with Windows 10 and those of us with SSD drives and 4K monitors. I'm really not impressed with WoN, way too buggy for my new super fast gaming computer. Looks like I've got to uninstall the game on my SSD and install it on my SATA drive.

I'm really miffed that the 3/24/2016 patch causes so many CTD's. I'm also peeved at finding a nasty Treaty of Pressburg bug that causes a whole slew of corps to be disappeared instead of properly displaced, mainly in all cities south and east of Wien around places like Graz. I had just done a plunder in the Selj region and the next turn my corp and the town disappeared even though the corp wasn't in the town. It disappeared with the Treaty of Pressburg decree.

I'm also disappointed that Athena is just as ignorant as it was in Napoleon's Campaigns, I've seen no improvement whatsoever between the two games. Why can't you give us Hotseat Mode and cut out the Artificial Ignorance altogether? I absolutely detest having to deal with the abject ignorance of Athena and wish we could conquer minor nations like in other Napoleonic games so we could get rid of the AI. I wish we could just control the minors the way we can in other Napoleonic games.

A real shame that WoN wasn't done in the new system, one can only hope you'll convert it for free after puking out this pathetically not finished game.

This is the first AGEOD game I bought since Napoleon's Campaigns which I found wholly disappointing and I'm thin king that WoN will be my last AGEOD game unless WoN gets dramatically improved.



loki100 -> RE: A Game Late! (4/5/2016 5:40:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnius

.... Why can't you give us Hotseat Mode ....


you do know you can do this ... and very easily?



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