Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (Full Version)

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Michael T -> Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (12/23/2015 9:44:31 PM)

22nd June 1941

The return game with Flavius begins. Same settings as our first game but with the 1.02 beta. Maybe third time lucky for me in playing a German game out to completion.

Things go well in AGN but he new setup makes Kanuas much safer from a T1 blitz. I did not attempt it.

In AGC things got a bit fouled up. The 10th Army and friends held off my attack so a large pocket has formed rather than wiping them out in T1.

In AGS a lot will depend on Soviet army activation in the next few turns.


[image]local://upfiles/22630/0CF1CD6389EB4516BA4CDD942AF91944.jpg[/image]



budd -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (12/23/2015 11:50:27 PM)

hope you don't mind questions. Where you sending your siege arty too? Do you usually finish off 10th army on the first turn? I've never been able to accomplish that. Looking forward to following along.



Michael T -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (12/24/2015 12:12:26 AM)

Killing 10th Army is my aim, but it doesn't always work. You need all your cards to fall the right way. In this move the first card did not fall right so I abandoned the attempt and went to plan B.

Siege has been sent to Lvov as I hope to take Brest next turn without it.



Michael T -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (12/24/2015 7:06:25 PM)

26th June 1941

Things going well in AGN. AGC is held up by 10th Army again. But we get Breast L. In AGS it all depends on the Soviet activations.


[image]local://upfiles/22630/3815C2577E6643B7B97B2D1693F5DD1F.jpg[/image]



KenchiSulla -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (12/24/2015 8:45:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T



AGC is held up by 10th Army again. But we get Breast L.





You seein' things again?



Michael T -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (12/24/2015 9:21:25 PM)

Xmas dinner, chicken breast :)

Flavius informs me he has delivered a crushing blow on AGS. I really don't want to look....



etsadler -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (12/24/2015 10:12:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Xmas dinner, chicken breast :)

Flavius informs me he has delivered a crushing blow on AGS. I really don't want to look....


You don't want to look!

Looking at AGS I'm assuming that you kept the 1PG HQ so far back to accommodate better fuel distribution. Given how extended your divisions are though, I would have placed the HQ on the Wiking or the 16th Mot for the combat Command Bonus.

Certainly you often have to choose between the two, and its not always easy to make the right choice. On top of that it is possible that the Command Bonus would not have made a difference. But it is certainly something to consider at turn end.



Michael T -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (12/25/2015 12:28:38 AM)

30 June 1941

Ouch AGS was very bad. A Mot and Pz divsion lost and two Pz divisions bloodied. I haven't witnessed so many activations for AGS before. Oh well...

If the Russian's miss some rolls this time in the south we might be able to retrieve the situation. Otherwise its going to be tough down there.

On a brighter note AGN and AGC are going ok so far. It's xmas so this report is very brief more next time around.

[image]local://upfiles/22630/D48D98A9AD43496682359176CA6BB39B.jpg[/image]



Michael T -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (12/25/2015 9:23:57 AM)

4th July 1941

The enemy is just too well organized and quick for me in AGS, they are not suffering from any C&C problems at all it appears.

I cannot win the game by getting Rostov. The only hope lies with Leningrad or Moscow now. Thankfully things are going much better in the centre and north.

[image]local://upfiles/22630/6AD4A0B7C00448CD888FD0488993CA03.jpg[/image]



Michael T -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (12/26/2015 3:03:36 AM)

8 July 1941

Pretty quiet right across the front. Just moving infantry up as fast as I can. Lots of formations changing posture. FSB's moving as well. Weather has been clear so no doubt as soon as I am ready to move with the Panzers again it will rain...

[image]local://upfiles/22630/55181FDFC8A14A90AFEAB934A6EC5948.jpg[/image]



Michael T -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (12/27/2015 1:58:27 AM)

16th July 1941

At last we can begin rolling forward again with the Panzers.

In the North we move up to Pskov and threaten a flanking move thru the Valdai, mostly a bluff to try and get some of his units moving in that direction. Also the Finns make an attack on the hex just to the north of Leningrad. It fails, we knew that would happen. It will also cost some PP. But the enemy have been moving troops away from the Finnish border to aid in the defence to the south. I want to send a message that I am prepared to attack with the Finns. Hopefully Riga will fall soon. The guns have arrived at last.

In the Centre Ivan has moved a long way back. Out of reach really. So I move forward and wait for the infantry to move up. Hopefully there is some disadvantage for him in giving away so much real estate so fast here. I will try to flank his fort line on either side of it with the two PzGp. Minsk falls at last. I will need to move up the FSB as soon as I can.

Again he is way out of reach in the south. All I can do is move up as fast as possible. I am attacking Odessa without siege artillery. It’s expensive for the Rumanians. The two Panzer Divisions he mauled are in refit.

Edit - Date correction.


[image]local://upfiles/22630/46B9519862C74A77962D26491D3C3F6C.jpg[/image]



Michael T -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (12/29/2015 2:32:46 AM)

24th July 1941

In the North we take Pskov. 4th PzGp splits, one PzKp aimed at Novgorod and one PzKp takes the old Pelton right hook thru the Valdai.

In the Centre we order the FSB to Smolensk. An accumulation of fuel (thanks to SO posture) means we can continue to slowly probe forward with the 2 PG’s while the infantry catches up. We are still chasing 4th Army units south of Minsk in the swamps. Which I have to admit is becoming mildly annoying.

In the South we take Kiev and move in force across the Dniepr. Odessa holds on again. I have to call off the attack and change posture with the Rumanians and 11th Army. So now all the hard work in reducing the fortification numbers will vanish. But I think the 2 divisions holding the city are down to around 60% strength so hopefully one more final assault in early August will finish the job.


[image]local://upfiles/22630/F7C655283D93460C90530113B647423F.jpg[/image]



Michael T -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (12/29/2015 10:35:02 AM)

28th July 1941

AGN:

4th PzGp continues its push towards Novgorod and the hook thru the Valdai. I expect an attack on the units directly adjacent to Novgorod. We pray for some missed activations.

AGC:

3rd PzGp drives a wedge towards Kalinin. 2nd PzGp aiming for Tula. We await the Soviet counter attacks.

AGS:

1st PzGp drives toward Kharkov. 11th Army and the Rumanians can’t do much due to a posture change. I expect some damage.

Overall Moscow seems my best chance at this stage. I am desperate for 4th Army to arrive at the front. They were held up so long at Minsk.


[image]local://upfiles/22630/785AC6D8621344A9A848340B320D2D70.jpg[/image]



Michael T -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (12/30/2015 3:21:38 AM)

5th August 1941

Some close ups this turn of the areas of most interest.

AGN:

Novgorod falls. 4th PzGp is now heading north. I am hoping his best armies are on the wrong side of the marshes. And perhaps mostly conscripts are in front of 4th PzGp?

AGC:

3rd PzGp pushes in between Kalinin and Moscow. 2nd PzGp has crossed the river and is in a good position to drive on Tula.
4th Armies much needed infantry has finally reached the front.

AGS:

1st PzGp positions itself to swing either north to Kharkov or south to Stalino. We aim to split the soviet line in the south in two.

Odessa held out again. It must surely fall next turn. My siege guns are on route to Smolensk, in anticipation for a bombardment of Moscow.


[image]local://upfiles/22630/D77DEBCB6F9B483F80BD57FB9E2E06C3.jpg[/image]



Michael T -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (12/31/2015 8:46:21 AM)

13th August 1941

AGN:

4th PzGp and friends continue to drive north, but its slow going and this turn an attack failed. So close to cutting of Leningrad and a host of armies but I fear the Soviet 7th Army which should be on the border guarding the Finns is going to make the difference. Doesn’t seem right that the Soviets can denude the Finnish front when the threat of Finnish invasion is real.

AGC:

Again slow going. My spearheads are showing signs of getting blunted. But we take Kalinin and Tula. The Soviets launched some local counter attacks and trashed 4 infantry divisions. So close to Moscow now we can smell it. Can we make it?

AGS:

A host of cities captured this turn, Kharkov, D and Z town, Palograd, Belograd. Hitler has made Rostov his number one objective. So a real PP bonanza this turn. 1st PzGp has almost achieved its objective and split the southern Soviet command in two.


[image]local://upfiles/22630/123B7278C99A47629D790BE13467C24D.jpg[/image]



olivier34 -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (12/31/2015 9:22:00 AM)

great report ! Thanks. I don't see the soviets stopping you. You have all the month of September to get Leningrad, Moscou and Rostov. Any fuel shortage ? what about your losses ? trucks ? Tanks ?



Michael T -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (12/31/2015 9:34:00 AM)

I will get some stats next turn. I have had my PzGp's on SO since early July so I have just enough fuel to keep going. But I am at the edge of my logistical tether ATM. Fuel in is almost the same as fuel expended. Tank numbers are low. I need a refit on all PzGp's. I am trying, I must hold off till the mud turns. I don't want to stop and give the enemy any respite.



Michael T -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (1/1/2016 4:58:02 AM)

21st August 1941

AGN:

We finally manage to cut Leningrad off along with a very sizable chunk of the Soviet Northern Front. But apparently this means nothing as far as supply goes for the Soviets. Leningrad has unlimited supply capacity so it seems. So I guess this strategy of taking the city is fundamentally flawed. My own supply state is precarious and all that is keeping it going is air supply drops. I am not confident of taking Leningrad at all. I am also under extreme pressure from Tikivin. Lots of counter attacking by the Soviets. None of his attacks have been successful so far but he seems to have an unending supply of manpower to throw at my worn out units. In hindsight I should have taken Tikivin and denighed him a reinforcement staging city. The mood at HQ AGN is gloomy.

AGC:

The advance is stalling. The PzGp’s are worn down and out. The infantry under pressure from north and south. I will have to divert Panzer units next turn to arrest the situation developing on my flanks. Moscow will have to be left to the infantry. I fear they won’t be strong enough. Soviets dug in to the forests are very difficult to dislodge. I don’t like my chances of actually taking Moscow either. He has so many troops and my spearheads have been more than dulled through slogging it through the forests.

AGS:

After the bad start I had with AGS this may actually be my best chance at taking an objective. Problem is my siege guns are in Smolensk waiting to shoot at Moscow. All the infantry of 11th Army and 17th Army is mostly unscathed so they can take over the job of the Panzers come September. Just in time for the mud to screw me I suppose.

Fuel:

I have plenty of gas in AGN and AGC. My stocks are almost gone in AGS. I am running on air drops.

The game is in the balance. I feel I could either just sqeak in somewhere or totally collapse. We shall see.


[image]local://upfiles/22630/4C450D36E7F944CB8698D63DCC7D8B11.jpg[/image]



Jagdtiger14 -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (1/1/2016 6:37:56 AM)

You are way ahead of schedule. Perhaps with bad weather (or not), just rest and refit, get your fuel up, move everything where you need it and then punch hard?



Michael T -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (1/1/2016 6:55:11 AM)

I don't really know what to expect with the weather. This is all new territory for me. Certainly once the mud hits there will be refits across the map.



Klydon -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (1/1/2016 3:34:31 PM)

I can see Leningrad supply not being eliminated (lake still has contact with Soviet territory), but I would think it should be reduced. The only time it would be eliminated is if the Axis can isolate the lake to prevent supplies from going across. (And hopefully the game reflects that).

This will make Leningrad a very tough nut to crack. The Germans had a chance at it by coupe-de-main early in the campaign. Against even average Russian play, that won't happen here. The German will face a very heavy grinding fight through some really terrible terrain to get there.

Overall outstanding campaign by the Germans. The steady offensive approach has a lot to recommend for it. I wonder if there was an opportunity to put some troops on rest and refit along the way so that some fresh troops would have been available here at the moment the Germans are at the gates of the 3 objectives.



Michael T -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (1/1/2016 8:42:04 PM)

At the moment Leningrad is a stalemate. Neither of us being able to dislodge the other from any position. I have a new wave of replacements due in one turn. So the 16th and 18th Army from AGN and the 4th from AC will get all replacements for a renewed drive on Moscow and Leningrad. I now have siege guns on the way to Moscow. I really had no chance to refit an entire AG in one go at any stage as I was in pursuit most of the July period. But individual units yes. But PP are so precious. This game is a constant balancing act that is very hard to keep in control.



Michael T -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (1/2/2016 1:34:01 AM)

29th August 1941

Before German moves.

At this point Flavius has conceded. Moscow is going to fall in the 4 to 5 turn range and I then only need to hold it for a month as I had taken an Independent Strategy which means take and hold any objective for a month and you win. Which in this weather will be simple. I have a replacement wave due next turn. And baring a delay the siege guns will arrive in 2 turns. They have just left Smolensk.

So the plan in AGC was to take Moscow with a rejuvenated 4th Army and hold/advance the flanks with 2nd Army/2nd PzGp to the south and 9th Army/3rd PzGp to the north.

In AGN I was going to use the replacement wave to boost 16th and 18th Armies for a final lunge to Leningrad. Not sure if that would be enough. Maybe the Finns would have helped?

In AGS I think I might have had a good shot at Rostov, as soon as the siege guns were finished at Moscow I would have sent them to Rostov, but who knows how long that would have taken. But 11th Army and 17th Army are still very strong and I see no reason why they would not have destroyed the Conscript Armies in front of them. 1st Panzer Army (minus a Panzer and Mot Division) was still quite a potent force.

Overall a fabulous game. I enjoyed it immensely and have learnt so much. But I have a feeling 1.02 is in favour of the Germans. If any of the devs are reading this I might suggest a small increase in the starting experience for the Conscript units as they really are quite useless baring defensive positions in good terrain/forts. They usually die for little or no losses inflicted on the Germans. They need to be able to inflict more damage for their sacrifice I feel. The only spot they managed to hold me off was in the forest hex to the south east of Luga. I just could not dislodge them. Maddening it was.

Thanks for a fun game Flavius, your skill deserved a better result.

You will see some stats below.


[image]local://upfiles/22630/C21B0074FF5948838212641F3B01A101.jpg[/image]



Michael T -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (1/2/2016 1:34:52 AM)

Stats

[image]local://upfiles/22630/A90DBB8834DF47778199400EE27023F7.jpg[/image]



Flaviusx -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (1/2/2016 2:06:59 AM)

Thanks, MT, you played a great game. Personally, I think it's going to take more than tweaking conscripts to put 1.02 in order against someone who has mastered the system as well as you have. The new reinforcement schedule and higher card costs are pretty rough. In 1.01 I would've had a lot more stuff in the center a lot more quickly. And I would've been able to get defensive posture by this time. Here the stuff just arrived too late and I was only just getting defensive posture down in cost. That's a 60 PP expense now, which is serious sticker shock and hard to pull off with paranoia impeding the ability to save PPs.

Under these conditions and with sustained offensive, you just got ahead of the schedule and there was no way to catch up.

I believe I had you stopped cold in Leningrad and also Rostov. I had a ton of forces in Rostov and you would've had a difficult time crossing the river to cut it off. My only concern there was preventing the siege guns from being able to set up next to the place, but the rail hex in question you needed to do this was marsh and I had stuff in there pretty well dug in.

Conscripts are useless in any other capacity in this game outside of defensive actions where they enjoy high entrenchment levels and terrain advantages. Only during the winter do they gain any kind of real offensive capacity.



Michael T -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (1/2/2016 2:37:18 AM)

Yes some other adjustments to the PP card costs and reinforcement schedules are probably needed too. I might suggest an interlude to see if the devs make any adjustments before we kick off again. Otherwise 1.01 might be a better game.



Flaviusx -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (1/2/2016 3:23:32 AM)

Ok, I guess we are both due for some R+R ourselves, having banged out two quick games.



governato -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (1/2/2016 3:39:24 AM)

where ALL those IDs in Leningrad still in full supply when the railway got cut off? I count five armies....



Flaviusx -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (1/2/2016 3:56:19 AM)

They were all in supply so far as I could tell.



governato -> RE: Fire in the East (no Flavius please) (1/2/2016 4:50:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

They were all in supply so far as I could tell.


One day..and that day may never come :) the ability to supply an entire front in Leningrad out of thin air may become a big exploit...but it should not be too hard to fix (WITE actually got *that* right...). I agree with your assessment so far, DCB is a great game, but will need a bit of work to 'balance' for PBEM... whatever balancing means! Maybe you could just have asked for more PPs along the game ...

Anyway... given the in built operational handicaps for the Red Army, balacing DCB should be easier than a more standard wargame as WITE, where `true' balance may require a skilled Axis player playing vs a more inexperienced Soviet one...



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