Can design templates be modified mid-game? (Full Version)

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tppytel -> Can design templates be modified mid-game? (12/24/2015 9:45:21 PM)

Related to my question in the Design and Modding forum...

Can design templates (not the designs themselves) for ships be modified after a game has started? I'm trying to find a way not to go full manual with ship and base designs and retrofitting, but still be able to make occasional changes to my designs that will carry over into future generations. I can see how the templates work and I can modify, for example, the frigate, start a new game, and see those changes take effect in the free frigate you get at the start. But it doesn't seem like I can get the game to recognize changes to that template once a game is underway.



Retreat1970 -> RE: Can design templates be modified mid-game? (12/24/2015 10:05:29 PM)

Not sure but I think the templates get loaded at game startup. Worth a try though.



Chris21wen -> RE: Can design templates be modified mid-game? (12/25/2015 7:43:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tppytel

Related to my question in the Design and Modding forum...

Can design templates (not the designs themselves) for ships be modified after a game has started? I'm trying to find a way not to go full manual with ship and base designs and retrofitting, but still be able to make occasional changes to my designs that will carry over into future generations. I can see how the templates work and I can modify, for example, the frigate, start a new game, and see those changes take effect in the free frigate you get at the start. But it doesn't seem like I can get the game to recognize changes to that template once a game is underway.


Why would you want to? I would doubt it in game as the templates you are talking about are there to get you started. With the ability to create, edit, mark/unmark them obsolete, save/load your own designs you have enough tools to do any thing you want. There's nothing to stop you using and old design as a template.

I've just had a thought that you might be playing with auto ship design/upgrades on. I've not played like this for a long time so I'm unsure how they work but it's possible it might be this that is causing you problems. Try turning it off in Empire Option.



Guardian54 -> RE: Can design templates be modified mid-game? (12/25/2015 1:25:32 PM)

Auto ship design is a quick ticket to losing, typically.

So turn it off and start slaving away manually unless you are playing on something that looks like:

Easy, No Pirates, No Creatures, NO GIANT KALTORS, and anything faster than Normal tech.



Bingeling -> RE: Can design templates be modified mid-game? (12/25/2015 3:12:22 PM)

You must be playing a different game than me, are you sure you are on the right forum? [;)]



Retreat1970 -> RE: Can design templates be modified mid-game? (12/25/2015 3:46:48 PM)

quote:

Auto ship design is a quick ticket to losing, typically.


I'm not so sure. I usually go manual, but my current game I didn't and it's not too bad. I'm running the Unleashed Extended II theme, and the ship designs are pretty good. Not perfect but good. I'm playing Ackdarians (random), and I looked at the designs to make sure my research matched what the designs called for (torps). Designs are not min/maxed but the time I usually spent designing is put into playing and that's kind of nice.



Guardian54 -> RE: Can design templates be modified mid-game? (12/25/2015 4:22:45 PM)

Amendment: auto design without using mods.

Because I swear if I see masses of short range weapons even one more time on the smaller classes... I'm a religious adherent to stand off and deliver, hence why I used to always rush Assault Missile and more recently have begun to rush Velocity Shard (better vs armor).



Bingeling -> RE: Can design templates be modified mid-game? (12/25/2015 5:07:34 PM)

I prefer to play the game as a galaxy simulation, and staying with the auto designs make sure that all races are not the same. Also, I am not a power gamer, and playing the AI mod on extreme difficulty to get a challenge is not really my style. It may also be hard enough that a pretty fixed strategy is needed, which is not really my style either.

Thus, with a bit more moderate difficulty it is very possible to "win" with for instance military purchases and military control on manual, and the rest (including diplomacy, ship design, research, taxes) on automated. And this with using races considered "poor".

Automated diplomacy is a bit awkward, though, it is one area I would love to be improved :)



Retreat1970 -> RE: Can design templates be modified mid-game? (12/25/2015 5:34:01 PM)

I'm with Bingeling. I like the simulation. I also like to roleplay. If I'm Atuuk then I'm railguns mostly. Surviving as space rats with railguns is interesting to say the least.

Try Icemanias AI improvement mod. It improves the AI designs and research while keeping the game original.



HerpInYourDerp -> RE: Can design templates be modified mid-game? (12/26/2015 2:01:24 PM)

Having to artifically handicapping yourself severely to extend the time it takes to win just emphasises how poorly balanced some of the weapons are, especially around how the AI utilises it.



Retreat1970 -> RE: Can design templates be modified mid-game? (12/26/2015 2:45:22 PM)

quote:

Having to artifically handicapping yourself severely to extend the time it takes to win just emphasises how poorly balanced some of the weapons are, especially around how the AI utilises it.


I don't mind the balance issues with races or weapons. For me it makes the game more replayable. You are right about handicapping though. I play with house rules mostly. It does extend the time to victory, but 99% of the time it's never in doubt anyways.



tppytel -> RE: Can design templates be modified mid-game? (12/26/2015 2:56:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Why would you want to? I would doubt it in game as the templates you are talking about are there to get you started. With the ability to create, edit, mark/unmark them obsolete, save/load your own designs you have enough tools to do any thing you want. There's nothing to stop you using and old design as a template.

I can certainly make any design I like, but that doesn't make that design a proper "template" as the game engine sees it.

quote:

I've just had a thought that you might be playing with auto ship design/upgrades on.

I would like to - that's the point. The template files determine how the auto-designer works. It would be a huge time saver to let the AI manage designs most of the time, but only if those templates can be changed occasionally along the way when necessary. For example, I usually use the Frigate class as a size ~350 system defense ship. Early on, that might mean 4 missiles and 4 beams, but as tech improves there's space for more firepower. So it would be great if I could change the template later on to make it 4 missiles and 6 beams. I'm looking for a way to get a little more control over ship design without having to go full manual.

Unfortunately, it looks like template files are loaded at game creation and any changes won't be read later on. So what I'm wanting to do just isn't possible.



Chris21wen -> RE: Can design templates be modified mid-game? (12/27/2015 5:54:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

I prefer to play the game as a galaxy simulation, and staying with the auto designs make sure that all races are not the same. Also, I am not a power gamer, and playing the AI mod on extreme difficulty to get a challenge is not really my style. It may also be hard enough that a pretty fixed strategy is needed, which is not really my style either.

Thus, with a bit more moderate difficulty it is very possible to "win" with for instance military purchases and military control on manual, and the rest (including diplomacy, ship design, research, taxes) on automated. And this with using races considered "poor".

Automated diplomacy is a bit awkward, though, it is one area I would love to be improved :)


Why I post on 'What I'd like to see in DW2'. If you don't use the basic auto designs ( in manual though) all races become the same. I like to see none preferred techs hidden or made much more expensive to research. You can still steal them or get them form old ships.



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