(In real-life) If an airbase's structure survived a nuke strike, could it still function at all? (Full Version)

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ColonelMolerat -> (In real-life) If an airbase's structure survived a nuke strike, could it still function at all? (12/29/2015 12:07:00 AM)

I've just been playing a mission in which one of my large airbases has been nuked, but survived enough to function in a diminished capacity.

I was just wondering... In real life, if a military base was hit by a small nuke, and somehow enough of it survived to be able to structurally launch, refuel, rearm, and otherwise service planes and other vehicles (ie, the buildings themselves were still there), would it carry on in any capacity?

It seems like a silly concept - but then, the Cold War was so weird that I couldn't help but wonder.

I suppose a lot of military buildings were underground, and could operate from there safely... Would the surface be completely evacuated immediately? Or could it still be manned (with the help of protective gear, etc)?

Oh, and I hope everybody's enjoying the holidays!



Dysta -> RE: (In real-life) If an airbase's structure survived a nuke strike, could it still function at all? (12/29/2015 4:01:59 AM)

Any debris stays on the runway, it is still a mission-kill because nobody can clean them under GZ. Let alone leaving a crater on it.

In such circumstance, no, the airfield is dead.

Except the underground aircraft hanger and launch bay, they might survive and usable if not being directly hit.



DeltaIV -> RE: (In real-life) If an airbase's structure survived a nuke strike, could it still function at all? (12/29/2015 7:08:48 AM)

Most WP hardened A/C shelters were built to withstand some form of limited nuclear explosion and were large enough to accommodate the service crew and necessary equipment, but lack of NBC protection for personnel and the fact that the necessary ammo/fuel bunkers were rather far from the shelters wouldn't allow prolonged operation after nuclear attack.

With some luck, they would be probably able to get the surviving planes into the air (in worst case, using backup grass runways) and with some more luck they would be able to transfer surviving personnel to some other airbase/airstrip/highway.

Due to relative abundance of backup ABs/airstrips/highways this would be preferred option in cold war scenario.

The AB would be considered lost.



NakedWeasel -> RE: (In real-life) If an airbase's structure survived a nuke strike, could it still function at all? (12/29/2015 9:32:53 AM)

I have to agree with all the above. The radiation from the burst, and fallout at ground zero would make any continued operations nearly impossible/suicidal. Mission kill.



willpope697 -> RE: (In real-life) If an airbase's structure survived a nuke strike, could it still function at all? (12/29/2015 10:00:14 AM)

My father was in the RAF and whilst living in Germany RAF Brüggen specifically they were trained to continue their operations after a nuclear strike provided it was possible with the protection of NBC kit however all civilians would be evacuated



Dysta -> RE: (In real-life) If an airbase's structure survived a nuke strike, could it still function at all? (12/29/2015 10:15:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willpope697

My father was in the RAF and whilst living in Germany RAF Brüggen specifically they were trained to continue their operations after a nuclear strike provided it was possible with the protection of NBC kit however all civilians would be evacuated

Even NBC protection have limits, if we're talking about 80s, when Tsar and something beyond 1MT will fry planet Earth if the war breaks out.

Maybe an immediate and single time of operation, but aftweward it won't be safe to continue.

The best similar example I could think of, is the mass evacuation of Chernobyl disaster.



mikmykWS -> RE: (In real-life) If an airbase's structure survived a nuke strike, could it still function at all? (12/29/2015 10:51:07 AM)

There are practical limits but many bases were hardened against nuke/chem/bio attack. A quick look through google earth should yield lots of hardened shelters, underground fuel tanks and even secondary complexes sometimes a mile or more from the base. Not sure what the outcome would have been but I tend to fall in the middle rather than the extremes.

We did put some effort into how we modeled this in the game and feel fairly comfortable with results. If anybody does have a concern please post with a save game so we can take a look.

Mike




AlmightyTallest -> RE: (In real-life) If an airbase's structure survived a nuke strike, could it still function at all? (12/29/2015 2:09:55 PM)

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2008-02.html

quote:

The advent of nuclear bombs complicated matters considerably. While a revetment would protect an aircraft from some of the overpressure and flash effects of a nearby nuclear event, that protection was not entirely good enough.

If the the nuclear weapon was airburst at low altitude, or surface burst, the high velocity shockwave would often be powerful enough to suck the aircraft out of the revetment and wreck it. If the weapon was airburst at a sufficiently high altitude, a line of sight path may have existed between the bomb and the parked aircraft, resulting in ignition or burn damage, as well as shockwave damage.

Revetments became increasingly displaced by Hardened Aircraft Shelters (HAS). The HAS is a concrete or combined concrete and earthworks structure which wholly protects the aircraft from blast, flash and other weapons effects. Construction techniques and hardness vary widely. HAS built solely for defence against nuclear attack would be built to withstand some nominal blast overpressure consistent with a nuclear weapon yield in kilotonnes/Megatonnes and some nominal miss distance, consistent with an opponent's delivery system. The most elaborate shelters were further equipped with door seals and filtered ventilation to protect personnel from nuclear fallout effects. This would allow the ground crew, alert pilot and aircraft to 'sit out' a nearby nuclear strike until outside radiation levels declined to the point where the aircraft could be safely sortied again.


I recommend reading the link, pretty informative with photos of example airbases and techniques outlined on how they might maintain operations under such conditions.



ColonelMolerat -> RE: (In real-life) If an airbase's structure survived a nuke strike, could it still function at all? (12/29/2015 5:50:16 PM)

Thanks for all of the info! I suddenly found it interesting thinking about operations on the ground during a nuclear attack - I've only really considered the tensions beforehand and the 'apocalypse' after before.

(I wasn't concerned about the game, just curious as to the outcome in real life. The in-game modelling seems a bit too realistic - I needed those planes [:'(]!!! I realised it was something I'd not considered. Whenever I'd previously thought of ground zero at a nuke strike I always thought about the biggest nukes, I'd not really considered smaller, tactical ones.)



SeaQueen -> RE: (In real-life) If an airbase's structure survived a nuke strike, could it still function at all? (12/29/2015 6:51:31 PM)

Most likely, yes. Decontamination and MOPP procedures would have to be followed, though. The result would most likely negatively impact sortie rates because of the extra time required to protect and decontaminate one's self and their equipment. Additionally, in spite of improvements, MOPP gear is hot, uncomfortable, and cannot be worn indefinitely.

In a major nuclear conflict, fallout is likely to rain down periodically for a long time afterwards. It might not even be the result of the weapon that hit the base, but possibly other targets, because fallout can be carried in the atmosphere for many miles. It might even be the result of one's own nuclear weapons depending on prevailing winds. The result would be forces being forced to take protective measures following nuclear attacks until all the fallout kicked up into the atmosphere was gone and the ionizing radiation levels had become indistinguishable from the background.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOPP




Michael7619 -> RE: (In real-life) If an airbase's structure survived a nuke strike, could it still function at all? (12/29/2015 9:15:13 PM)

What i remember from my time as a conscript in army mid 90's, we had very little protection gear for nuclear contamination. Only few units were dedicated to work and clean in ABC-situations. As i served in army, i don't know how airforce units were equipped. Anyway my unit would have stayed as far as possible from nuclear hit areas, at least if we would have had that choise. I would think that when those weapons would be used there would be quite a bit confusion, frightened men and civillians and everything would slow down in airforce and army.

Regards



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