V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (Full Version)

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ChuckBerger -> V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/13/2016 8:26:12 PM)

As there has been a bit of interest in game balance under 1.02, I thought I'd post some progress notes from my ongoing game against Vic.

I consider it a rare delight to have the chance to play against the creator of this wonderful game! We're playing beta 1.02f, with me as the Germans.

Settings are Decisions, Plots, and Past History all ON, Geneva Convention OFF. No What Ifs, no helpers. No house rules, though for my own part I try to avoid moves that seem extremely gamey.

Vic, you're most welcome to read these notes.



ChuckBerger -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/13/2016 8:32:22 PM)

(by the way, I'm going with following the Fuhrer's directives)

Turn 1

AGN: Russian deployments are thin north of Tilsit, so 4PzG storms directly north, fanning out to the east to try to discover some weakpoints on the Dvina line. Infantry punch forward towards Kaunas.

AGC: Western MD appears to have a forward deployment, and horror of horrors I fail to close the Bialystok pocket! No matter, they'll not get far through the swamp hex that is their sole lifeline. A bit of luck at Grodno, where only a single tank division is defending, which of course is easily evicted. PzG2 surrounds Brest-Litovsk. On the whole, a standard opening.

AGS: Again a pretty standard opening, PzG1 smashes forward to the southeast, gaining 2 hexsides on Lvov and nearly cutting off a significant force to the west.

Finland: not much to report here, the Finns advance in good order. In the next 2 turns, they get in a few licks against the Russians, but Vic opts for a retreat to the pre-1940 border. I'll not report further on the Finns until they intervene.

On the whole, a satisfactory first turn.



ChuckBerger -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/13/2016 8:40:31 PM)

Turn 2

Vic reports he had terrible luck with activations, which prevented any semblance of a response in critical sectors.

AGN: The big news is here, where to my utter disbelief, Riga is found empty. The Panzers move in, cutting off all of Baltic MD in Courland, and poised already to move into Estonia next turn. The infantry struggle to keep up on the flanks while also eliminating pockets of defenders on the frontier.

AGC: PzG3 exploits towards Vilnius, battling through elements of Western MD. One panzer division moves into the town without opposition, though it gets briefly cut off. Brest-Litovsk falls to infantry assault, as does Bialystok with a big haul of prisoners.

AGS: Vic doesn't contest Lvov, only a single division sits there, and it is easily evicted. A large pocket is reduced west of Lvov. Elsewhere, Vic pulls back a bit.

To the south, the advance into Bessarabia is enhanced by some command bonuses, and several Russian divisions are cut off by the rapidly advancing 11th Army. The Russians mount a counterattack against the Romanians further north, which inflicts some losses.

The combination of bad Russian activation and good commander bonuses has set me up really well this turn.



ChuckBerger -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/13/2016 9:54:53 PM)

Turn 3

If memory serves, Stalin had a meltdown which further inhibit Soviet activations this turn. In many areas of the front, my panzers could do as they like.

AGN: 6th Panzer division has a pleasant, unopposed drive through the Estonian countryside, all the way to an unoccupied Tallinn, where they settle in to await resupply. Further south, my forces push towards Jakobstadt, and press in on the Courland pocket, taking Liepaja. PzG4 switches to sustained offensive, to save fuel.

AGC: A motorized division from PzG2 rushes through the Pripet marshes, unopposed, to seize Gomel and the bridge over the Dniepr in a coup-de-main. Further north, PzG2 pockets most of what's left of Western MD and advances to the gates of Minsk. PzG3 secures the forests around Vilnius and switched to sustained offensive, to save fuel.

AGS: A steady push forward across the line, with the main armies switching to sustained offensive. 11th Army crosses the Dniestr and advances quickly on Odessa, eliminating one Soviet pocket. A pocket of four divisions north of Kishinev manages to break its encirclement, for now. Some further attackes on the Romanians. Vic is causing some hurt here, but now all of 9th and 12th armies are at risk of being cut off. I think he should've tried to pull back instead...



ChuckBerger -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/14/2016 6:04:42 AM)

Turn 4

AGN: The Panzer division at Tallinn is stalled. PzG4 takes Jakobstadt for the airfield, and otherwise repositions northwards. The infantry press ahead in Courland, and towards Daugavpils, eliminating another pocket of frontier troops. One problem here is that my rail engineers are working on the Daugavpils line, but the unexpectedly quick advance through Riga means I'd rather have them working on the Riga line. The FSB gets relocated to Riga, and we'll just have to work with Russian gauge for now.

AGC: Minsk falls easily, as there was only a single infantry division defending. The rest of Western MD troops are crushed to the west of Minsk, as far as I can tell there is nothing left of the initial Russian AGC armies. Two fast divisions from PzG2 swing north from Gomel, taking one of the bridges at Mogilev, and meeting another panzer division which moves into Mogilev itself, unopposed. It appear Vic is fortifying the line from Polotsk through Orsha, but I've already outflanked it to the south by taking Mogilev & Gomel and the crossings.

AGS: The panzers advance southeast towards Proskurow, but fuel is beginning to be a problem. Odessa falls to 11th Army without opposition; what appear to be the last remnants of Southern Front are trapped to the west of Odessa. 9th and 12th Russian armies are still near their start positions, and are now nearly certain to be trapped wholesale. They take a few swipes at the Romanians, with no decisive results. FSB South is relocated to Lvov.

By this point I am thrilled with progress all around. In 4 turns, I have advanced to a line including Tallinn-Riga-Vilnius-Mogilev-Lvov-Odessa. Most of those cities were taken with only minimal opposition. Most of the Russian frontier armies have been destroyed. Organised resistance is apparent only from Ostrov to Daugavpils, and Southwestern from from Rovno to Tarnopol, neither of which I really care about.

I think Vic has had some terrible luck, and I've had good luck with relationship bonus APs for many of my Panzergruppen. About the only real error I think he's made is in the south, where 9th and 12th armies are about to be cut off and destroyed - perhaps they should have been pulled back to Proskurow. At this point fuel is very scarce on all fronts, though, and there will be a slow-down. Perhaps he can salvage the situation.




ChuckBerger -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/14/2016 6:14:29 AM)

Turn 5

AGN: A bit of an error here, as I forget to leave enough fuel for the 6th Panzer to advance on Narva, while most of PzG4 moves up into Estonia. This may cost me a lot, as I suspect most of his forces from the Finnish front are now heading to Narva. I hope I didn't miss the chance to break into the Leningrad area with minimal opposition... elsewhere, still slogging in Courland and advancing infantry on Daugavpils.

AGC: I wanted to pause here for fuel, but an irresistable opportunity presented itself to surround 5 divisions plus the headquarters of the Soviet 20th Army in the hex NE of Mogilev. I use the last dregs of AGC fuel to complete this encirclement. The trapped troops will certainly try to break out, we'll see if they succeed. I think either way I have totally outflanked the Orsha position. And if not, I have my siege train moving up to just in front of Orsha.

AGS: My panzers here also use the last dregs of their fuel to push on to Proskorov, linking up with the Romanians here and isolating the entirety of the Red 9th and 12th armies. I doubt they can escape. Rovno and Tarnopol fall to infantry assault; Vic didn't make a serious effort to defend either.

Further south, the last of Souther front is destroyed in Bessarabia. And the Romanian tank division (my favourite unit in the whole game) achieves an astonishing breakthrough. It crosses to Nikolaev then, finding no opposition, proceeds to take the lower Dniepr bridge east of Nikolaev. Then, still finding no Soviets at all, it cruises on into Perekop! It is far, far out of command distance. We shall see whether this totally unhinges the Russians, or just leads to the loss of the unit...

At this point, there is very little evidence of Soviet reinforcement armies, except in the Orsha area. I don't know whether this is the altered reinforcement schedule, or whether Vic has deployed them well back from the front line. Either way, the German advance has been very rapid.



Vic -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/14/2016 7:11:41 AM)

Turn 5:

So far the Soviets suffered a number of turns of very lousy dice rolls for activations and already 2 paranoia turns out of 5.

All in all the situation looks quite grim. I have lost almost all my starting armies already.

Lost recently deployed 20A in an encirclement just south of Orsha.

This game actually seems to mimick very closely the real German advance speed. In the south even better. They already passed the Dnjepr. Decided to garrison Kerch instead of Sevastopol.

Best wishes,
Vic



Falke -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/14/2016 5:43:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChuckBerger

Turn 4

About the only real error I think he's made is in the south, where 9th and 12th armies are about to be cut off and destroyed - perhaps they should have been pulled back to Proskurow. At this point fuel is very scarce on all fronts, though, and there will be a slow-down. Perhaps he can salvage the situation.




Even vs the AI if These do not activate, they do not have the AP to cross the river.It is probably a lack of activating rather than an error.



KenchiSulla -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/14/2016 5:53:07 PM)

Indeed, one of the problems with no activation is divisions get stuck since they are not able to cross the river....



Michael T -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/14/2016 6:45:49 PM)

This one reason why Zhukov always has to go south at the start. Otherwise 12th Army can't cross the river and is lost.



RCHarmon -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/14/2016 9:33:09 PM)

In a game I am in my activations have been terrible even with Zhukav. SW and 12th army only move at full activation when I directly attach Zhukav. Both armies have been lost for nothing and they are both good armies.



ChuckBerger -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/15/2016 3:21:11 AM)

Turn 6 - July 12

Some mud this turn, but thankfully nothing over the area of active operations. FSBs are still moving forward, except in AGS where the new FSB at Lvov comes online and a nice dose of fuel moves forward. My relationships with all 3 army group commanders are strong, and continue to pay dividends in additional APs.

AGN: As predicted, the Red Army is now at Narva in force. Looks like Vic is moving most of Leningrad MD here. I have enough fuel to move a few divisions up next to Narva, but no assault this turn. Further south, Vic pulls back, leaving Daugavpils undefended. Unclear whether he'll defend at Ostrov, or pull back further. Windau falls, and with it Baltic MD headquarters, leaving just 3 leaderless and out of supply divisions left in Courland.

AGC: The surrounded units of 20th Army east of Mogilev tried to break out -- they battered a panzer division pretty hard, but the line held and this turn I bagged 20th Army HQ and four divisions in this pocket. Lead troops of PzG2 are just two hexes from Smolensk, but AGC is out of fuel. Infantry move forward. Frustratingly, I still have no option to move AGC airfield forward. It's been 2 turns since the capture of Minsk, but I can't move my airbase there, not sure why. To the south of Smolensk, there is only a thin screen of infantry, which PzG2 could slice through like butter. Unfortunately, without fuel, PzG2 can't slice through anything at the moment.

AGS: With the fuel tap flowing again, PzG1 launches northwards from Proskurow, through Vinnitsa and taking Zhitomyr with no opposition. They nearly meet up with fast-moving infantry of 6th Army. Although one hex is still open, basically all of Southwestern Front is cut off by this move. 17 Divisions are nearly surrounded, I think only one or two of them can escape.

Further south, the noose tightens around the 18 surviving divisions of 9th and 12th armies, now hopelessly encircled on the wrong side of the Dniestr. The Romanian tank division is out of command range, but still has enough APs to move from Perekop to Melitopol, which is seized without opposition. The tank division could be lost if Vic has any troops in the Crimea, but I think I'll take the risk.

My armies have mostly all transitioned to sustained offensive, and the PzGs are by and large in good shape, not in need of a wholesale refit. However, 2 panzer divisions in AGC and one in AGN have very high levels of breakdowns, and so are given division-specific refit orders.



ChuckBerger -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/16/2016 10:17:17 PM)

Turn 7 - July 16

AGN: Fuel is flowing again to PzG4, and it wastes no time assaulting Narva. Totenkopf spearheads the assault, muscling aside the defenders and managing to seize the crucial bridge over the Narva River as well. Leningrad MD troops are just not up to the task... quite a few troops of the Soviet 11th and 29th armies are south of Pskov, there is very little between my panzers at Narva and Leningrad. I expect Vic will pull more troops off the Finnish front to delay my panzers. 18th Army finishes off the last of the Courland pocket and begins the long march north.

AGC: No fuel here. Vic pulled off a local counterattack south of Smolensk, which bruised Das Reich a fair bit. Without fuel, there's no much I can do in response, for now. Infantry continue to move up. All of 4th Army is now East of the Dniepr and ready to resume combat operations. 9th Army moves through Polotsk unopposed, and is poised to assault Vitebsk next turn. I've identified two Red armies around Smolensk, but not a single division north or south. My troops are only 3 hexes from Bryansk in the south part of this sector. There is a thin fortified line of Russians from Vitebsk to Orsha still, but it's outflanked on both ends and will only be encircled if Vic stays there.

AGS: The Russians fail in a tepid bid to save Southwestern Front from encirclement, but my Hungarians hold fast at Zhitomyr. This turn, the pocket is sealed on these 17 divisions, while the panzers continue on to Kiev. They shatter a few divisions and take some fortifications in front of Kiev before they can be properly manned. I have a hex on Kiev - there is a major garrison present, but still I expect to be in a position to take the city in the next turn or two. Cherkassy falls, again with no opposition.

South of Proskorow, the noose draws tighter around the encircled 18 divisions and 2 army HQs (9th and 18th).

At the Dniepr bend, no sign of any Russian troops anywhere. My Romanian tanks are out of command radius, but supporting infantry are now close to reaching them. Next turn they'll be in command radius and will be able to cover a lot of ground. 11th Army is one of the few still in Blitzkrieg mode, and I just can't switch them yet, need to make the most of the lack of any opposition. I'd love to take the Dnepropetrovsk bridge before giving them all a well-deserved rest.

In the south, aside from the 3 encircled armies, I have identified only the 16th army at Kiev.

On the whole, another very good turn. My relationships with all 3 theatre commanders are strong. Of all the important relationships, only Brauchitsch and Gerke are a little cranky with me.



ChuckBerger -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/17/2016 7:38:33 PM)

Turn 8 - July 20

AGN: A Russian assault on the Narva bridgehead is repulsed with heavy losses; this sets up a strong advance by PzG4 this turn towards Leningrad. I count 9 divisions between us and Leningrad, but by the end of this turn only 3 of them are in fighting shape. Still, PzG4 probably can't take the city until 18th Army's infantry marches all the way up to the front. As expected, Vic has largely denuded the Finnish frontier of troops. Further south, Vic still holds Ostrov, but will likely abandon it this turn.

AGC: Finally some fuel again, though not as much as I would like. Vic abandons the Vitebsk-Orsha line, pulling back wholesale towards what looks to be a new line at Vyasma. I hope to unhinge it before it can be properly set up... My panzergruppen and infantry all move forward through Orsha and Vitebsk. There are 4 divisions in Smolensk, but it's an untenable position; they will either pull back or be surrounded soon. To the north of Smolensk, there is no coherent line of defense.

AGS: The battle of Kiev enters its final phases, and it will be a great German victory. A Russian counterattack on my panzer spearhead fails, and PzG1 completely surrounds Kiev and eliminates or pockets all that is left outside the city itself. Kiev will be assaulted next turn. The two large pockets in AGS are both reduced to one hex apiece. Krivoirog and Kirovograd both fall without resistance. The Romanian tank unit moves to Mariupol and finds a garrison there. Then, in a feat of folly, I send it north to Stalino, just to have a look... there is a conscript army HQ there, and the division ends the turn in the hex just south of Stalino. If that army activates next turn, there is a fair chance my Romanians will be cut off and destroyed, as again they are far beyond command range and infantry support.

Logistics are OK, but in both AGN and AGS my trucks are traveling very long distances. Time to move FSBs forward in both theatres, perhaps next turn.



ChuckBerger -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/18/2016 10:20:16 PM)

Turn 9 - July 24

AGN: The Soviets abandon Ostrov, which my 16th Army takes and moves towards Pskov. Vic has lots of troops around Pskov/Luga, which I'm sure he wishes had been at Leningrad... PzG4 attacks along the coastal road from Narva to Leningrad, boosted by high octane fuel, Luftwaffe support, envelopment focus, and a positive relationship AP bonus. The Russians break after heavy fighting, and behind them there is... nothing. Leningrad is taken in a coup-de-main. Five divisions are shattered. The Russian northern front headquarters is overrun, and two other army headquarters battered and pushed out of the city. Two border divisions are isolated in the Karelian Peninsula, I'm a tinge worried they'll counterattack Leningrad, which has only one depleted panzer division present. So I persuade the Finns - at considerable political cost - to attack over the pre-1940 border to eliminate the threat.

There are at least two armies plus some remnants in the Luga/Pskov area. They'll have to backpedal hard to escape encirclement. FSB relocated to Tallinn. It's game over in the North.

AGC: Vic abandons Smolensk, and generally pulls back to the Vyazma line, where he has put up a line of fortifications and has a growing number of entrenched defenders. He also launches a local counterattack NE of Vitebsk. It is stopped cold, and we counterattack the counterattackers, surrounding and eliminating 2 infantry divisions. Every little bit helps.

Unfortunately I don't have enough fuel for offensive operations for both Panzergruppe here. It seems partisans are derailing quite a few supply trains back in Belarus. Frustrating. I decide to go for broke with 2PzG south of Vyazma, leaving 3 PzG sitting high and dry behind the lines. Guderian succeeds beyond my wildest expectations. At most I had hoped to clear the forests south of Vyazma. There is heavy fighting in the forests, with significant losses on both sides, but the Panzers prevail and, as the shattered remnants of a few Russian divisions retreat to Vyazma, I find the city has no other defenders, aside from 2 Army headquarters. These are shoved out of the city, and a Panzer division even exploits to the east of Vyazma towards Kaluga. At a stroke the heavily fortified and manned Vyazma river line is totally outflanked, and the main Russian line broken in two.

Will Vic counterattack, or retreat? He has strong forces west of Vyazma and assembling at Bryansk, but nothing that I can see between Vyazma and Moscow. If he counterattacks he could cause me some real problems, but it's a high risk strategy... if it doesn't work out, I could be in Moscow in 3 turns. On the other hand, retreating will leave many of his units exposed with low entrenchment, and will allow Guderian to call the shots again next turn.

AGS: Four pockets of Soviets are cleared in central Ukraine, thus ending the stories of four Russian Armies (including Southwestern Front and the reinforcement 16th Army). Kiev is stormed in a concentric assault by most of 1st PzG, with barely any losses on our side. The bridge over the Dniepr is intact, and the Panzers swarm over it. By the end of the turn, the lead panzer division is half of the way to Kursk.

Further south, the 11th Army is strewn across half of the Ukraine, still in blitzkrieg posture, with many units out of command range, and desperately in need of some rest. The Romanian tank division manages to pull back one hex. It may be surrounded next turn, all depends on Soviet activations. If it survives another turn, I can probably rescue it. I've been a bit silly down here!

AGS airfield is relocated to Melitopol, as I suspect 11th Army is going to need it. Some Romanian forces cross into the Crimea, taking Dshankoi without opposition. FSB will be relocated to Kiev as soon as possible.



Michael T -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/19/2016 1:38:21 AM)

Sounds like Vic is in a lot of trouble. Can you post a map?



ChuckBerger -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/19/2016 8:50:25 AM)

Turn 10 - July 28

Ugh, late summer rains bring swathes of mud, conveniently placed right across the main area of operations in both AGC and AGS. To add to my woes, I can't relocate AGS FSB to Kiev. Four other options are given, all down south nowhere near my panzers. The rail line to Kiev is completely clear. Very frustrating. I think perhaps there is a limit to the number of options that any given decision can have, and if you have too many choices for possble FSB locations, it's what, luck of the draw? Seems broken.

Anyway, I really can't complain:

AGN: 4PzG consolidates its hold on Leningrad, and smashes up some of the weak infantry remaining in the area. Two units exploit over the Volkhov, seizing both bridges. 18th Army is moving up through Narva. 6th Army keeps up pursuit in the Pskov sector, but also sends a few divisions into the Valdai Hills. The 2 Russian armies plus remnants of two more are now almost certain to be trapped around Luga/Novgorod, encircled and destroyed. 4PzG can probably start to think about heading to AGC.

AGC: Mud everywhere where it counts. At least some fuel is getting through. Guderian's panzers repel a massive attack on Vyazma from 4 sides. The only attack we can pull off in this sector is a large attack on the fortifications to the west of Vyazma. It succeeds, opening up the supply lines to Vyazma and allowing reinforcements to move into the city here. Otherwise, a slow move forward to maintain contact north and south of Vyazma.

AGS: 1PzG moves as far as the outskirts of Kursk. Elsewhere, lots of moving infantry forward. The Romanian 4th Army moves deeper into the Crimea, finding no opposition. The Romanian tank division fights off an attack by Russian conscripts. It would have been saved this turn...but mud renders the unit immobile and it will likely be cut off and destroyed next turn near Mariupol. C'est la vie.

Der Fuhrer is pretty happy with the state of things. So happy he decides to give me a decoration. I am swimming in PPs, wish I could use them to relocate my FSB in the south to Kiev! Or to borrow some more trucks from western front. Or something.



ChuckBerger -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/19/2016 8:52:34 AM)

I'd like to, but am running this on a mac airbook using Windows native (my only way to play PC games). So no windows key or screen print, so not sure how to take a screenshot. Could use the grab utility, but apparently not in a full screen program, and DC3 doesn't seem to have a windowed mode...

I'll try to dig out at least one of the screenshots I think the game automatically makes at the end of each turn.

C



Vic -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/19/2016 10:27:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChuckBerger

I'd like to, but am running this on a mac airbook using Windows native (my only way to play PC games). So no windows key or screen print, so not sure how to take a screenshot. Could use the grab utility, but apparently not in a full screen program, and DC3 doesn't seem to have a windowed mode...

I'll try to dig out at least one of the screenshots I think the game automatically makes at the end of each turn.

C


Just press print screen button and paste into PAINT or PAINT.NET or any image editing program.

best,
Vic



ChuckBerger -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/19/2016 11:45:11 PM)


quote:

Just press print screen button
...

This is my problem, I don't have a print screen button!



ChuckBerger -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/20/2016 12:43:00 AM)

Turn 11 - August 1

Weather clears this turn, so full speed ahead:

AGN: The 7th Independent army pulls back from Karelia to Tikhvin, in time to save that city, for now. Otherwise the Russians pull back in a desperate bid to escape mass encirclement. They fail, 4PzG still has enough fuel and hitting power to mop up some formations gumming up the roads and bridges around the Volkhov River, and Totenkopf Division meets up with advance units of the 6th Army advancing through the Valdai Hills, thus closing the trap. 17 Divisions and 3 Army HQs are trapped in the Novgorod/Luga pocket. They might re-open a tenuous line next turn, but I should be able to mops them all up in the coming turns. A rearguard at Pskov is overrun.

AGC: Vic counterattack the 2PzG spearhead with all he's got, something like the better part of four armies is committed to large but costly and unsuccessful attacks at Vyazma. For my turn, 3PzG finally has enough fuel to enter the fray, and they do so with decisive effect. 8 Divisions are surrounded and forced to surrender north of Vyazma by the concerted attacks of both panzer forces. Another 3 divisions are encircled west of Rzhev, and a further half dozen units are shattered and pushed back. Along the Moscow road, three tank units are crushed in progressive attacks by Guderian's panzers, which brings them to the very gates of Moscow. Lead patrols of the 29th Motorised division report overrunning workers still preparing fortifications on the outskirts of the city, and have sighted the Kremlin in the distance...

Not much Vic can do here, I think. North of the main Vyazma-Moscow rail line, his forces are in disarray, with only a handful of combat-effective units left. South of the line, he has some strong formations from Bryansk to Kaluga. He just might be able to snip off my spearhead next turn, but even so 3PzG is in good form and would easily be able to muscle forward. Moscow should be mine in a few turns at most.

AGS: Miraculously, the Romanian tank division survives, the conscript armies that should have trapped it obviously failed their activation rolls! With clear weather returning this turn, the division pulls back to 11th Army lines, which now stretch from Zaporozhe to just short of Mariupol. Time for 11th army to get some rest. Other armies are all moving up to the front, Vic has lots of conscripts from Dnepropetrovsk through Stalino and, presumably, on to Rostov.

The Romanian 4th army occupies all of the Crimea except for Kerch, which has a garrison but nothing else.

Von Kleist's panzers take Kursk, but are out of fuel. Maddeningly, I still can't move my FSB forward to Kiev, the only options I am given are all down south (Kerman, Melitopol, Krivoirog, Nikolaev). If that doesn't change, 1PzG will sit there, out of fuel, for the entire rest of the game.

Incidentally, I have so many PP that I can shop for birthday presents for Brauchitsch (do you think he'd like these pants?), play a starring role in propaganda films, give my Chief of Staff extended leave, tinker with R&R for a dozen individual divisions, and still heaps in the bank. Maybe I could lend some of them to Goering at interest? Or give some away to Antonescu? Or just frame a few to hang on the wall in my office? Any ideas?



ChuckBerger -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/20/2016 12:59:08 AM)

And finally a screenie. This is just after the German phase on the 1 August turn. Leningrad has fallen and what's left of the Reds is mostly in a huge pocket at Luga/Novgorod. Guderians panzers are in the lead of AGC, just at the gates of Moscow, with the Russian centre battleaxed in two.

In the south, German forces are still catching up to 11th Army's early blitz into the Donbas. Russia still holds Dnepropetrovsk. Kleist's panzers are through Kiev and all the up to Kursk, where they sit awaiting fuel to catch up. There are no russian troops to be seen between Orel and Dnepropetrovsk, though perhaps some reinforcements are there in the fog-of-war around Kharkov.

[image]local://upfiles/21922/4C8A4CC6E83E47908EE36903BEAEF5C2.jpg[/image]



ChuckBerger -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/20/2016 4:22:16 PM)

Turn 12 - August 5

AGN: The trapped Russians briefly reestablish a line of communication east of Novgorod, but this turn I shut the trap for good, and reduce the perimeter of the encirclement all around. Luga falls. 15 Divisions and 3 HQs trapped at Novgorod, otherwise the only Russians in evidence in the north are the 7th Independent army at Tikhvin.

AGC: No coup-de-main at Moscow, alas. The Russian 34th army is hurriedly rushed in to Moscow just in time to save it, for now. The 34th deploys in fortifications surrounding the city, and it looks like a conscript army will be deploying there soon as well. Vic throws the kitchen sink at at two divisions on the main rail line, in a bit to cut off all of 2PzG, but doesn't quite manage it. His 3 divisions trapped near Rzhev manage to break out, however.

Moscow is now too strongly held to grab it on the run, I'll need to hammer away to take a few hexes on the city before I can assault. No major garrison yet. This turn 3PzG, 2Army and 9 Army focus on securing the northern shoulder of our long salient pointing at Moscow; in 2 separate operations they surround and eliminate 9 divisions near Rzhev, and shatter several more. That's it for the northern half of Soviet AGC. To the south, a slower push back towards Kaluga, and 4th Army manages a penetration of the Russian line at Bryansk, just to keep up the pressure all around. At Moscow, the depleted 2 PzG gains one hex on Moscow, pushing the newly arrived 34th Army out of some fortifications, hopefully for good this time.

AGS: Vic has confirmed that the inability to relocate my FSB base is apparently a bug. The list of valid FSB relocation points should include the 4 choices closest to the existing FSB (for me, Lvov) - but instead I'm being given the further 4 options. So I could relocate to Sevastopol, but not Kiev. The upshot of this is that AGS will never receive any more fuel! At the current FSB of Lvov, its too far for trucks, but at Melitopol or Kurman or whatever, it's way too far for trains. So for this game we're just going to have to assume that the Corporal pulled 1PzG back to France to prepare for Sea Lion '42.

Normally this would of course be a game breaker, but I'm just happy we found a bug and am happy to keep playing.

1PzG's infantry units can still move, and the Hungarian cavalry unit probes forward, finding Belgorod and Kharkov both undefended. Kharkov is taken, though only with a ZOC, maybe this will push Stalin over the edge, at a crucial moment in the Moscow battle. Elsewhere, still moving infantry forward. 17th Army pushes a single division out of Dnepropetrovsk, but the bridge is still his. Two Romanians divisions fail to dislodge a garrison at Kerch.



ChuckBerger -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/20/2016 4:38:45 PM)

Clarification: the FSB issue I'm having isn't a bug, exactly. The FSB options given will be the four valid locations closest to the front line. So it's WAI. But Cameron and Vic are looking to improve the implementation to avoid the situation that has arisen in this game, where I've been "trapped" by my rapid progress into a set of FSB choices that are way too far ahead of German rail gauge, and also way too far from my PzG.



Michael T -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/20/2016 8:26:34 PM)

Either way, balance question aside, this game is yours.



ChuckBerger -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/21/2016 9:02:04 AM)

Turn 13 - August 9

AGN: The Novgorod pocket is cleared, 15-odd units destroyed. Finland intervenes, too late to see any combat. They grab Petrozavodsk without opposition. The Soviets abandon Tikhvin, pulling their last army in the north back towards Vologda. PzG4 heads south to help out in AGC, but they're far beyond any adequate logistical base and probably will run out of fuel before even reaching the army group boundary line. I relocate FSB to Luga, the best of a bad set of options...

AGC: Vic again counterattacks Guderian's spearhead at Moscow, while pulling back along the north and south shoulders to try and form a coherent line. Rzhev is abandoned without a fight. At Moscow, his troops don't do half bad, losses are about equal and my panzers are beat up a bit, but the panzers hold the hex, and the counterattack sets me up nicely to surge forward during my turn. The full force of 2 Panzergruppe swarms around Moscow, 3PzG drives north along the western suburbs, while 2PzG hooks around south and up the east side of the city. By the end of the turn, I have five hexes on Moscow, only a single road north remains. Vic may be able to kick me out of one or two of these hexes, we'll see. Moscow itself has a major garrison and no less than seven infantry divisions, but six of them are conscripts.

Further south, an initial assault on Kaluga fails. Fourth army is locked in a bitter contest with the Soviet forces around Bryansk. Both sides attack, 4th Army winds up taking the city, with heavy losses all around.

AGS: Vic unleashes a wall of conscripts against my 11th Army SE of Zaporozhe. Lots of T-34s are involved. My line holds, largely due to Luftwaffe and Counterbattery support, I suspect. Losses are about equal. My other infantry armies are still marching, marching, marching. The Romanians storm Kerch, kicking out the garrison and opening up the back door to Rostov.

As for the stranded 1PzG, no luck. IN theory I should have at least had Kursk as an FSB relocation option, as it is right on the front line. No such luck. In frustration, I relocate FSB to Zaporozhe. Nothing good will come of it, it's way too far on Russian gauge rails.



ChuckBerger -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/21/2016 10:00:57 PM)

Turn 14 - August 14

AGN: The Finns move into the line at Tikhvin, the German infantry are all heading east into the endless forest. PzG4 is out of fuel. Nothing much left to do here.

AGC: Soviet counterattacks on the forces trying to surround Moscow fail to dislodge any of them. For my part, I decide on direct assault with most of both Panzergruppe. Defending are 6 divisions and a major garrison, all with entrenchment from 100 to 200. I have a +75% concentric bonus. Moscow falls. My losses are light. Who needs siege artillery...

To the north, 9th army launches a few costly and unsuccessful attacks around Kalinin. To the South, 2nd army has better luck at Kaluga, storming the city and pushing the Russian back across the Oka. 4th Army continues punching and getting punched around Bryansk, and in general coming out ahead. We've pressed ahead to the bridge at Orel, and I think the energetic counterattack here is running out of puff.

Game's not quite over in the centre, as several Russian armies are moving up to counterattack around Moscow. My armies are depleted, most panzer and panzer grenadier units are between about 50-65% TOE. It should be enough to hold just fine. 2PzG finally switches out of blitzkrieg mode. And with Moscow in hand, and a bit of fuel in reserve, I have the breathing room to move FSB forward to Vyazma.

AGS: Vic continues his massive assaults on 11th Army's lines. Losses are heavy on both sides, but 11th army doesn't give an inch. 17th Army has finally arrived in force at the great bend of the Dniepr, and it crashes across, taking the Dnepropetrovk bridge and threatening to roll up the big line of conscript armies attacking 11th army. 6th Army moves slowly towards Voronezh, where Vic has a conscript army. 4th Romanian Army crosses into the Kuban, no Russians in sight.

Total casualties are about 1.9million Russians, to about 170K Axis. I've lost about 1200 panzers, so with reinforcements my overall panzer force is at about 60% of the starting force. Russians have less than a million troops in the field, and have had less than a million since turn four, except for a brief peak in late July when they got back to 1.1 million, before dropping to around 900K now.



ChuckBerger -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/22/2016 11:46:01 AM)

Turn 15 - August 17

AGN: Some new Russian armies show up near Tikhvin, which gives the Finns the chance for their only combat of this war. They blast back an infantry division. 4PzG gets a bit of fuel and, as they are not needed at Moscow, cut NE through the forests towards Vologda.

AGC: At Moscow, two large Russian counterattacks are stopped cold. Something like 13K losses, for less than 1K German casualties, even though the defenders were caught switching modes. The German counterstroke collapses what is left of the Russian line north of Moscow, perhaps 10 formations are erased, Kalinin will fall next turn, and about 13 division will be cut off NW of Kalinin, another 15 divisions are nearly trapped just north of Moscow. Vladimir is seized. Both Russian counterattacking armies in the south are smashed back.

In the Bryansk/Orel area, a Russian counterattack wrecks 2 infantry divisions, but even here the Germans retain the upper hand, pushing the Russians back across the Oka everywhere but a small bridgehead.

AGS: A lone infantry division approaching Voronezh is very roughly handled by the conscript army there, and pulls back to await reinforcements. In the south, three separate attacks by conscript armies are shattered, again here around 15K Russian dead for no more than 2K German and Romanian losses. The German 11th Army immediately goes over to the offensive against these disrupted armies, and perhaps a dozen Russian divisions are eliminated or rendered unfit for combat, maybe another 15,000 losses. 17th Army reaches Pavlograd, but the initial assault doesn't have quite enough AP to take the city. Still, I'm confident now that AGS can reach Rostov even without the assistance of a Panzergruppe.

The Romanians take Novorossiysk and Krasnodar, still no Russians in sight down there.



ChuckBerger -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/22/2016 12:10:09 PM)

At this point Vic and I have decided to call the game finished. The Germans hold Leningrad and Moscow, the Russian counterattack on Moscow has been repulsed, and all Russian forces north of Moscow are set to be rounded up in the next few turns. In the south, Rostov is not exactly close, but the Romanians are in the Kuban, and the powerful German infantry armies are rolling steadily forward around Kharkov/Pavlograd/Mariupol.

Total losses are about 2.1 million Russian, and 198K Axis. I have about 1500 panzers in the field.

This has been a most interesting game, thanks so much Vic for the challenge and for the chance to help out, in a very small way, with improving the game.

In my opinion, the game shows the need for some further rebalancing on PBEM games. It's all too possible for the German player to leapfrog very quickly to Leningrad and Moscow, especially if the Russian player has bad luck on early activation rolls (as Vic did in this game). I seldom had to pause the panzers for anything, only lost perhaps 1-2 turns in AGN and 2 turns in AGC to fuel shortages. Similarly, no need to refit for the whole game for most units, I think I only did refits on 3 panzer divisions about halfway through, and then about half of the infantry in 11th Army. There just isn't enough there - whether Russian troops or logistical challenges or whatever - to stand in the way of a determined and reasonably skilled German commander.

Thanks again Vic!




Vic -> RE: V1.02f balance test - Chuck Berger v Vic (1/22/2016 1:58:51 PM)

Thanks to Chuck for a nice and educational game!

I had a really bad start and some suboptimal play but I think I say enough when I refer to Camerons earlier announcement that early next week is going to see a public beta 1.03 PBEM balance patch.

Best wishes,
Vic



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