Weather ships? (Full Version)

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DRF99 -> Weather ships? (1/28/2016 9:32:02 PM)

Hi,

From time to time in the AAR there is talk of picket ships and whether it is "fair game" to use them or not. Lots of opinions on whether to use them or not, or what type of ship is ok to use or not.

On a related note, I came across a reference to weather ships used in both the Atlantic and Pacific in WW2. Quite interesting and I had never read of this before.
http://www.uscg.mil/history/webcutters/rpdinsmore_oceanstations.asp
http://jproc.ca/rrp/rrp2/wxship.html

Ships used tended to be frigates. Some of the ships used as weather ships may or may not be in the game.

In the spirit of picket ships, does anyone have any strong opinions on scattering some weather ships around the Pacific where they would function as pickets?

The first link also talks about three plane guard stations between Hawaii and San Francisco. It looks like some of the empty spaces of the Pacific weren't all that empty.

Cheers,






BBfanboy -> RE: Weather ships? (1/28/2016 9:51:42 PM)

Since weather in the game is random, the picket ships would not be helpful in weather prediction.
As picket ships, I would not object to lone picket ships but some players are not happy that the game seems to allow single small ship TFs to go undetected by Nav Search. Then there is the issue of what kind of ship can be a picket. Some players don't like to see xAKLs worth only one VP used as pickets.

I think the only rule should be that the picket ship must be "on patrol" in the hex to create reasonable fuel usage, rather than just set to "Remain on Station" and use almost no fuel. That would impose a requirement for the player to refuel or swap out the pickets from time to time rather than just set it and forget it.



btd64 -> RE: Weather ships? (1/28/2016 11:34:07 PM)

I don't think it matters as to what ship you use. The Japanese used fishing boats. 1 victory point. In reality if you are short of escorts, you will use what is available. I use xAK, AKL, PC, PG, what ever I have....GP



zuluhour -> RE: Weather ships? (1/28/2016 11:51:23 PM)

I think a bigger problem is when they end up soaking off carrier strikes.



DRF99 -> RE: Weather ships? (1/29/2016 2:38:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: General Patton

I don't think it matters as to what ship you use. The Japanese used fishing boats. 1 victory point. In reality if you are short of escorts, you will use what is available. I use xAK, AKL, PC, PG, what ever I have....GP

quote:

I think the only rule should be that the picket ship must be "on patrol" in the hex


Supposedly they did about 30 days on patrol (likely in the same hex) then 10 days in port.



LargeSlowTarget -> RE: Weather ships? (1/29/2016 7:59:45 AM)

The issue is using civilian ships like xAKL for picket duty. All sides used civilian ships for military purposes. In some cases without alterations, but usually the ships got some armament (if only a machine gun), a radio and at least the skipper was a serviceman, to establisjh identity as a "warship" (to distinguish them from spies or pirates).
For example, in the "Hooligan Navy" organised by the Coast Guard for picket duty against the German U-boat threat on the East Coast, using sailing yachts and such, the skipper usually got a rating of the Coast Guard Reserve and the yachts were fitted with a machine gun and a few depth charges. Many "Yippies" - "yard patrol craft" for local use designated YP in the USN, were converted tuna boats. The RN augmented the patrol and minesweeping fleet with converted fishing trawlers. The Kriegsmarine used converted fishing boats as "Vorpostenboote" - literally "picket boats" as well as weather ships. To replace lossses, the "Kriegsfischkutter" KFK class was built, based on a trawler design.

The Japanese did the same - the picket boats encountered during the Doolittle Raid were converted trawlers and whalecatchers, with radios and armament, and later in the war they constructed dedicated picket boats based on a trawler design.

In short, it appears that the use of civilian ships with civilian crews (i.e. xAK / xAKL) as picket boats is "unhistorical". For purists, some mods (notably DBB and spin-offs) allow the conversion of xAKLs into PC / YP / AMc etc. classes. I do not know any mod that is using weather ships - interesting idea, if only for eye-candy.



Ian R -> RE: Weather ships? (1/29/2016 2:33:38 PM)

Having read your post, it sounds like a civilian vessel was maybe given an HMG and possibly some depth charges and deployed to an early warning patrol zone. Instead of ever-more compilicated modding, perhaps just allow players to sacrifice hulls?



LargeSlowTarget -> RE: Weather ships? (1/29/2016 4:15:36 PM)

[&:] I haven't "disallowed" players to sacrifice hulls? Everybody can do what he wants. I was merely referring to the discussion the OP has mentioned and pointing out the historical use of picket ships and that there was a little bit more to it than just taking a civilian ship and crew and send it out on patrol and that some mods allow for conversion. I am not trying to force you to use them.



Dili -> RE: Weather ships? (1/29/2016 8:08:24 PM)

Italian Navy employed fishing ships including sailing ones for picket duties.
Now the problem is that in game one ship can detect everything that is in the 40nm hex, there is no fog, bad weather that impedes detection if 2 TF's are in same hex. They way 99% of games handle hex ownership is a big issue.



Dili -> RE: Weather ships? (1/30/2016 1:35:18 PM)

Another issue that came up to me is that we don't have picket ships missing - there are many situations that there have been contact but one side can not communicate that encounter because it is simply destroyed before or because the communications are destroyed. Here in game every encounter is know to the us. us=GHQ.

Same for submarines btw. We know everything that happens to our submarines. Not happen IRL



jamesjohns -> RE: Weather ships? (1/30/2016 11:55:20 PM)

I believe using AKL's etc like this is very gamey.



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