fortifications (Full Version)

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Icier -> fortifications (1/30/2016 7:43:17 PM)

I use to consider a fortified zone as an annoying speed hump, but something happened in a game
( normally German) that made me reconsidered their value. I would like to get forums opinion on the
zones & what would a German side stack in such a zone? [&:]



No idea -> RE: fortifications (1/30/2016 8:11:43 PM)

I only use fortified zones as soviet, when you have few units, to speed the fort level, or in several strategic areas. I naver use them as german, but i guees in 1944 or 1943 they can have a similar use.



timmyab -> RE: fortifications (1/30/2016 8:52:39 PM)

Their main use is to enable fort levels above level 2 in their hex and adjacent hexes. Also useful for maintaining an existing fort without the need to station a combat unit in the hex.



swkuh -> RE: fortifications (1/31/2016 11:29:36 AM)

"...and adjacent hexes." Hmmm... learned something, thanks.



VigaBrand -> RE: fortifications (1/31/2016 11:43:08 AM)

But it is not true.
In the latest patch it is remarked, that the Fort Unit bring you Fort level 3 (or higher if urban or port) and level 2 adjacent to the fort. (level 2 is only allow if you there is an enemy in 3 hex distance).



timmyab -> RE: fortifications (1/31/2016 12:00:15 PM)

Oh, that's probably true then. I'm a year or two out of date on the rules.
It's better that way anyway. The adjacent rule made fort spam too easy, although not like it was when the game first came out. Who remembers level 3 forts four or five hexes deep right across the front? Even level 4 I think if the front had been static for a while.



VigaBrand -> RE: fortifications (1/31/2016 12:03:14 PM)

Above level 3 is only in urban and ports allow or they are at the start of the game at level 4 (see Sevastopol).



timmyab -> RE: fortifications (1/31/2016 12:13:05 PM)

I like these new fort rules, much more sensible. Fort spam was silly.
So the answer to the OP's question should be "To enable level 3 forts in the FZ hex and level 2 forts in adjacent hexes. Also useful for maintaining an existing fort without the need to station a combat unit in the hex".



timmyab -> RE: fortifications (1/31/2016 1:11:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VigaBrand
(level 2 is only allow if you there is an enemy in 3 hex distance).

Actually a quick check finds this to be untrue as of 08.07. Level 2 forts can still be built anywhere.[&:] Now I'm just confused. [:D]



VigaBrand -> RE: fortifications (1/31/2016 1:33:33 PM)

39.Changed fort construction rules. Fort level 5 can be built only in cities with
large port containing a fort unit. Fort level 4 can be built only in big cities (city, light
urban or heavy urban terrain) or towns with port containing a fort unit. Fort level 3 can
be built only in big cities, towns with port, in hexes with a fort unit or adjacent to an
enemy. Fort level 2 can be built only next to a fort unit, in coastal zones or up to 3
hexes from a supplied enemy unit. Fort level 1 can be built only up to 20 hexes from a
supplied enemy unit. In swamp terrain the fort cannot be larger than 2.

That is from 1.08.03 and I didn't realise if they changed it again.
Are you sure?



Icier -> RE: fortifications (1/31/2016 6:52:11 PM)

I seem to remember that there was a limit on the number of forts able to be built. Does any one know whether this is still in effect?
I think that you may find a fort built on the front line, if ignored by the opposition for a couple of turns becomes a lvl 3, but it is good
to see that I wasn't the only one confused.
But getting back to 2nd part of the question, any German players using fortifications and if so what do they find the best mix?[X(]




OldSarge -> RE: fortifications (1/31/2016 7:16:47 PM)

The limit is currently 150.

62. Added a hard limit of 150 fort units, with an increasing cost in AP after 50 fort units (+1 for each unit
over 50), for human players. These fort limits are modified by German/Soviet production usage
percentages.

As the Germans, I use forts to form a defensive line along rivers or other defensive terrain. I try to only place 'leg' infantry in the forts, while placing my mobile forces behind the line and set to reserve.



Icier -> RE: fortifications (1/31/2016 7:34:19 PM)

thanks Sarge!

I do think the limit should be reduce to 50. Anyway, to everyone participating, thanks



Michael T -> RE: fortifications (1/31/2016 8:21:56 PM)

quote:

Fort spam was silly


This was one of the things that kept me away from the game. Glad it has been fixed at last.



vandorenp -> RE: fortifications (1/31/2016 10:02:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ice

I use to consider a fortified zone...

what is a fortified zone? I haven't played in about 6 months. But I was playing regularly up till then and had read the rules closely, I thought. Do not remember zones. What is the rule number i can read about this?



OldSarge -> RE: fortifications (1/31/2016 10:58:14 PM)

Please see section 7.5.1 in the manual: Fortified regions (Soviet) and zones (Axis) ...



timmyab -> RE: fortifications (1/31/2016 11:29:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: VigaBrand
That is from 1.08.03 and I didn't realise if they changed it again.
Are you sure?

Well all I know is that I have 08.07 installed and I have units digging level 2 forts out in the middle of nowhere. It must have been changed back I guess. I actually like those 08.03 fort rules.



No idea -> RE: fortifications (2/1/2016 7:54:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab


quote:

ORIGINAL: VigaBrand
That is from 1.08.03 and I didn't realise if they changed it again.
Are you sure?

Well all I know is that I have 08.07 installed and I have units digging level 2 forts out in the middle of nowhere. It must have been changed back I guess. I actually like those 08.03 fort rules.



Same here. In my experience Level 2 forts can be made everywhere, with no forts next to them, no matter how far, or near, the enemy is.



morvael -> RE: fortifications (2/1/2016 10:53:15 AM)

2 yes, but no longer 3.



swkuh -> RE: fortifications (2/1/2016 11:18:56 AM)

Noted that Axis fort costs increase with number created and seems to usefully contain fort spamming.

BTW, how does forts balance factor affect game? i.e., for Axis 100 vs. 110, 90 vs. 100 etc.



vandorenp -> RE: fortifications (2/2/2016 1:02:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OldSarge

Please see section 7.5.1 in the manual: Fortified regions (Soviet) and zones (Axis) ...


Oh that. Notice the instruction for creating these says "click the "Create fortified unit." Therefore these are fortified units not zones. I thought this discussion concerned someth9ing new, a single collection of multiple hexes consequently a zone of the map.



Icier -> RE: fortifications (2/9/2016 2:13:26 AM)

Am I imaging it, or does your entrenching shrink or drop a level when you launch a counter- attack? [&:]




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