Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (Full Version)

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Auchinleck -> Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/5/2016 4:11:49 PM)

Just start a new Global War in Solitaire mode! The Japs and Germans have 65,000+ pilots by Turn 1 Production phase. And 65,000+ Pilots with 251 Retrainable Pilots by the time you get to Turn 2! Also, if you try and select to unbuild the Retrainable pilots, they cannot be 'unbuilt'. Making the game virtually unplayable! This is a new bug that has been reported by multiple players, which is obviously due to the latest patch. I guess patches are not tested to see how they might cause more harm than good. Is there a way to uninstall the latest patch, without having to reinstall the game? Although it's frustrating to contemplate starting all over, considering how long it takes to set up and even get a Solitaire Global War going, only to have to play against myself. (without an AI, my biggest purchasing regret about MWIF)



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/5/2016 4:52:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Auchinleck

Just start a new Global War in Solitaire mode! The Japs and Germans have 65,000+ pilots by Turn 1 Production phase. And 65,000+ Pilots with 251 Retrainable Pilots by the time you get to Turn 2! Also, if you try and select to unbuild the Retrainable pilots, they cannot be 'unbuilt'. Making the game virtually unplayable! This is a new bug that has been reported by multiple players, which is obviously due to the latest patch. I guess patches are not tested to see how they might cause more harm than good. Is there a way to uninstall the latest patch, without having to reinstall the game? Although it's frustrating to contemplate starting all over, considering how long it takes to set up and even get a Solitaire Global War going, only to have to play against myself. (without an AI, my biggest purchasing regret about MWIF)

I am working on getting out a Public Beta for the final testing of NetPlay. That includes the pilot fix.



Auchinleck -> RE: Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/5/2016 9:07:19 PM)

Never mind



juntoalmar -> RE: Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/5/2016 11:17:52 PM)

"I guess patches are not tested to see how they might cause more harm than good"

I guess no test can check absolutely everything, and this didn't popped up while testing.



bo -> RE: Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/8/2016 6:26:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juntoalmar

"I guess patches are not tested to see how they might cause more harm than good"

I guess no test can check absolutely everything, and this didn't popped up while testing.


Hi junto, how are you? I saw this and I always think it is my fault somehow or my computer, can never be my fault right [:D]

I restarted the game from a game save and it went away, so I take some blame from this as I did not inform Steve like I should have, I thought it was one of my famous computer quirks sorry my friend.

Bo



AlbertN -> RE: Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/8/2016 7:53:14 PM)

With the latest patch I've met an amount of bugs and issues that weren't there before.
So it's quite true that a new patch here seems to screw over things that were fixed before.



bo -> RE: Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/9/2016 12:50:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cohen

With the latest patch I've met an amount of bugs and issues that weren't there before.
So it's quite true that a new patch here seems to screw over things that were fixed before.



This has been going on since Steve started working on the Net play, he fixes a problem with netplay and for some reason it affects the vanilla portion of the game, we have had a discussion on this and my idea was shot down probably because I do not know a damn thing about programming [:(]

I have another opinion what might be done but let us say for now that dog won't fly[:D]

Bo



AlbertN -> RE: Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/9/2016 3:55:08 PM)

Also the last time USA DoW'ed an Axis power (with the latest public patch I can Download from here) - namely both Euro Axis powers; the game forced ALL of the US Entry chits to go into tension from their side. (Beforehand you could opt to keep them as Entry and not Tension).




Centuur -> RE: Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/9/2016 5:17:33 PM)

We can't find everything. The complexity of the game makes this impossible.
So if you see something wrong, post it with a gamesave as soon as possible. This is important, since it is easier for Steve to fix something if he is still fresh with the change made for netplay.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/9/2016 5:38:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

We can't find everything. The complexity of the game makes this impossible.
So if you see something wrong, post it with a gamesave as soon as possible. This is important, since it is easier for Steve to fix something if he is still fresh with the change made for netplay.


Indeed!

I make a concerted effort to fix newly reported bugs within a week. Now those modifications might not make it to you customers that fast, since the beta testers need to have a go at putting the program through its paces after any changes I make. As Peter said, with a saved game and instructions on how to reproduce the problem, I can find and fix most bugs rather quickly - especially if they are due to recent changes. The saved games also let me check that any changes I make actually fix the reported problem - which is no small thing.



AlbertN -> RE: Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/9/2016 6:17:07 PM)

I've to doublecheck on Enrico for that - as I deleted the old saves on a regular timeframe to avoid cluttering (we're on at our 6th game) - let's say that "bug" passed on and we continued playing because it delayed US entry by 1-3 turn only (In the end only 1) and US is in total war at Jan / Dec 1941.



goulash -> RE: Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/13/2016 12:12:05 AM)

I have to be honest here and say I give up with this game now and feel poorly let down.

Pay release price, wait ages to avoid falling into early game bugs and the workarounds that only players of the board game or extremely patient people seem to be able to handle.

Get feedback on this forum that the game is playable so give it a go and then on first game still in first turn a float plane vs a fighter causes a freeze.

Really not bothered anymore and basically feel like this was more like a greenlight founder early release if not worse.

Sorry but the game had potential but the time it is taking has took its toll. I'm outa this game and just gonna concentre on the more stable ones.



bo -> RE: Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/13/2016 1:42:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: goulash

I have to be honest here and say I give up with this game now and feel poorly let down.

Pay release price, wait ages to avoid falling into early game bugs and the workarounds that only players of the board game or extremely patient people seem to be able to handle.

Get feedback on this forum that the game is playable so give it a go and then on first game still in first turn a float plane vs a fighter causes a freeze.

Really not bothered anymore and basically feel like this was more like a greenlight founder early release if not worse.

Sorry but the game had potential but the time it is taking has took its toll. I'm outa this game and just gonna concentre on the more stable ones.



You like many others feel the same way, if this was just a soso computer war game [ I could name many that Matrix sells on their site] there would not be the major complaints that you hear here, please the complaints are legit, but the games concept is probably the most comprehensive well thought out game in the world of computer war games, EVER.

I am not a homeboy and I think everyone here knows that, IMO Steve built a masterpiece at least on the surface, it now needs a heart and soul and I am sure Steve will get there with that, but I like everyone else, we all get very discouraged waiting.

Bo



AlbertN -> RE: Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/13/2016 10:48:50 AM)

The point is that Steve is alone coding what is to be coded - meanwhile usually games a fruit of the work of a team.

What worries me a lot is the fact that coding Netplay screws over things that are working already pretty heavily, and if one is to look at the mass of workload to get through, I am somehow doubtful the product will see a finalized stage of being polished and honed.

Given I am a sort of "happy" customer here since I've got my way via Skype to play the game itself, and being used to tabletop games I've an amount of patience (as my buddy has too) to get through situations, reloads and so forth. But I understand it is far from optimal as thing.

In the end of the day WiF was a monster-game I dreaded to approach (despite my father having all of it and being pratically untouched; when he was somehow younger he collected games even if had no one to play them with; and the size of the maps / space required through the time made the game itself unviable unless there was a fervent desire for unbearable wife / mother aggrievation.)

The PC game - this translation of WiF - allowed me actually to learn a game very quickly (Given, coming from tabletop background concepts of ZoC, hexes, movement, etc were already well known and polished) so that only the "Naval System" was something really and truly new to me and my buddy (For which we've a bit discordant opinions, I find it very classy and elegant despite being the lottery; and my buddy feels it being too much lottery. It can use some improvements but I've heard they're in the works for the next RAW).
On the other hand as this game slugs behind (Bugs, Optionals not coded, etc) - and somewhen the next RAW would come out - how many of the "tabletop" gamers will stick to WiF or opt to leap on Vassal? (Given Vassal would require much more effort).

But there have been improvements certainly since I bought the came. For once I can admit it rarely crashes by now (is that a good thing?) but I admit as well, if you have no one else to play against a 1 v 1 game turns boring very quickly (at least I could not manage, I tried and it just bores me into oblivion).

So to the ones who wrote above, my only suggestion is - as you invested already your bucks - find someone to play with and try to have fun with what the game allows you to do!




Cataphract88 -> RE: Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/13/2016 1:03:13 PM)

Which is more stable to play, 'solitaire' or 'hot seat'?



AlbertN -> RE: Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/13/2016 1:48:40 PM)

I just use Solitaire all the time. Even if we play in 2 in the end we tell reactions and such via skype and it's just 1 player operating at times on the game.



AllenK -> RE: Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/13/2016 2:04:08 PM)

Mayhemizer and I are using Solitaire and it seems very stable. No crashes in a long time.

For those who don't mind playing at a more leisurely pace or would struggle to coordinate being online together for extended periods in order to play over Skype/Teamviewer (or Netplay when that is up and running), I can thoroughly recommend playing over E-mail as we are.



bo -> RE: Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/13/2016 4:17:01 PM)

quote:

What worries me a lot is the fact that coding Netplay screws over things that are working already pretty heavily, and if one is to look at the mass of workload to get through, I am somehow doubtful the product will see a finalized stage of being polished and honed.



Hi Cohen

I have asked Steve sometime ago is there a way that when he works on netplay that it would not interfere with the vanilla game when he made changes, I cannot remember Steve's answer [my mind, old age you see] I noticed a while ago that when he made a change on netplay it affected the solitaire game. Maybe he can reexplain that to the posters.

Bo



paulderynck -> RE: Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/13/2016 8:02:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cataphract88

Which is more stable to play, 'solitaire' or 'hot seat'?

We used Hot Seat for our multi-player Teamviewer game. We did this to try and keep the US entry and NS-Pact chits from being wide open to all players, but it still definitely was an honor system. The advantage with Hot Seat is you got a bit more warning that you should minimize the window or even exit Teamviewer before seeing the other sides' confidential info.

We started on version 1.3.3, then went to version 1.4.5, and are now on version 2.1.4. All along, we've had no serious problems that stopped our game and we are in MJ43. (A big reason for this may have been that the Germans did incomplete conquest on France as opposed to declaring Vichy - I know there's been Vichy declaration and Vichy processing bugs.) Any minor bugs found were submitted on the development forum since I'm one of the beta testers.

Anyway, in that entire time we had only one bug that we are sure was in Hot Seat and not in Solitaire.

The most serious bugs we've run into are:
1. Intercepting units that aborted a naval combat and must pass through a sea zone where there are enemy units. At this point, it is simply better not to try and intercept them. In our opinion - not a game breaker.

2. Just recently discovered is that if you use surprise points to increase your AA column in a Naval Air combat, it also will increase your opponent's AA column! That one might be Hot Seat only - don't know, and it's a serious bug which until fixed means spend your surprise points some other way!

Yeah, bugs are annoying if you've played the board game seriously for over ten years as I have. But the choice of not playing versus enjoying the game in its current state and socializing with others is a no-brainer for us.

Edit: And BTW, bug #2 above was discovered during a massive 5-search-round surface and CV battle in the Coral Sea involving 7 or 8 CVs on both sides and plenty of LBA from both sides. The first Naval Air combat probably had a total of over 40 CVPs and LBAs in the 4 FTR and BMR line-ups. The overall carnage was amazing. And we got through all that combat with just that one bug, which actually was discovered and predicated after the fact, when thinking through what had transpired. (It was later confirmed via private testing, using a save from the start of that combat.)



wworld7 -> RE: Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/14/2016 3:35:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

What worries me a lot is the fact that coding Netplay screws over things that are working already pretty heavily, and if one is to look at the mass of workload to get through, I am somehow doubtful the product will see a finalized stage of being polished and honed.



Hi Cohen

I have asked Steve sometime ago is there a way that when he works on netplay that it would not interfere with the vanilla game when he made changes, I cannot remember Steve's answer [my mind, old age you see] I noticed a while ago that when he made a change on netplay it affected the solitaire game. Maybe he can reexplain that to the posters.

Bo

Hi Bo,

Trying to explain WHY changes, modifications, additions to the code of any program "sometimes" causes problems in other areas of a program (not expected to be affected) is absolutely NOT easy to explain. Thirty plus years ago when I worked on my first corporate phone system I was taught a term by the VERY experienced technicians. The term was "FM", let's just say it meant "flacking magic" (this is a family site). Things you do not expect to happen unfortunately DO happen in electronics and without a doubt also in computer code.

It is hard to explain (even with a common understanding of technical details) and a pain to find and fix.

All we can do is hope Steve runs into the least amount of issues.



bo -> RE: Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/14/2016 5:26:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish


quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

What worries me a lot is the fact that coding Netplay screws over things that are working already pretty heavily, and if one is to look at the mass of workload to get through, I am somehow doubtful the product will see a finalized stage of being polished and honed.



Hi Cohen

I have asked Steve sometime ago is there a way that when he works on netplay that it would not interfere with the vanilla game when he made changes, I cannot remember Steve's answer [my mind, old age you see] I noticed a while ago that when he made a change on netplay it affected the solitaire game. Maybe he can reexplain that to the posters.

Bo

Hi Bo,

Trying to explain WHY changes, modifications, additions to the code of any program "sometimes" causes problems in other areas of a program (not expected to be affected) is absolutely NOT easy to explain. Thirty plus years ago when I worked on my first corporate phone system I was taught a term by the VERY experienced technicians. The term was "FM", let's just say it meant "flacking magic" (this is a family site). Things you do not expect to happen unfortunately DO happen in electronics and without a doubt also in computer code.

It is hard to explain (even with a common understanding of technical details) and a pain to find and fix.

All we can do is hope Steve runs into the least amount of issues.


No argument with what you are saying flipper, I was just agreeing with Cohen, we did have discussions with Steve about separating netplay from vanilla, I think he said it could not be done, ok no argument with that, but it is so frustrating at least for me to start a new game and the same AA fire aborts sea aborts on and on keep reocurring after Steve corrects a problem with net play.

You used the word flacking magic, I like that [;)] means nothing to a computer programming illiterate like me but I like it anyway. If that is the case and it goes on and on without major resolutions, when is enough is enough [:(] there is another direction to go but I dare not broach it because it shall be called treason.

Sir John Harrington [Knight 1561-1612] "Treason doth never prosper, what's the reason? For if it prosper none dare call it treason". What does that statement have to do with MWIF, nothing, I just love the quote[;)]

Maybe I am the only beta tester that thinks that way flipper, I think I wear the game on my sleeve and it shows, and if I offend anyone I apologize.

Bo



Cataphract88 -> RE: Latest Game Patch. 1 Step Forward, 3 Steps Back (2/14/2016 10:52:38 PM)

Thanks for the replies. [:)]



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