A Surrender Bug (Full Version)

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GaPete_slith -> A Surrender Bug (2/12/2016 1:58:09 PM)

I looked through the bugs thread and I found one that sounds similar to this but, not sure it is quite the same thing. I have reached the surrender phase and it asks if the Russians will surrender to the Germans. I answer yes. The problem comes with rebasing Russian ships. When you click on the ships in the Black Sea, the game tells you that they are destroyed, as they should be. The ships in the Artic and Pacific are another matter. The game wants you to rebase them even if there is no where for them to go. Russia changed it's home country to Mongolia which has no ports, and still owns Persia and the port in Iraq, but these ships cannot reach there. They will not rebase in an allied country either. It leaves you stuck and unable to advance. I suspect these ships should be destroyed. I would really like to finish this game so any help would be appreciated. I've uploaded the saved game file here. It starts where you get the surrender window.



paulderynck -> RE: A Surrender Bug (2/12/2016 8:25:13 PM)

I took a look at your game and found the units up north could rebase to Petsamo in Finland, which has a Russian CAV in it. Under Command in the menu there is a "Show Valid Moves". Don't know if you tried that, but for those units it lied and said there were none - then I spotted the CAV. The CP at sea can remain out in the Arctic (where I left it) since it has a port (Petsamo) it could return to.

Next I clicked on the units in the Black sea and the game offered to destroy them so that was no problem.

Next I clicked on the units in Vlad. Again the game indicated no valid moves, and I could not see any. I thought of Persia but that is one more than double their range. The Help menu item has a selection which gives you all the keyboard and mouse commands and in there it says Backspace destroys a unit in hand. I tried that on the units in Vlad one-by-one and it didn't work. I then CTRL-left-clicked on Vlad and selected them all and hit Backspace and the game asked if I wanted to destroy them. "Great!" I thought, as I clicked on "yes". But it would not destroy one of the subs. Thinking that was due to normally these would be separate naval moves (subs vs the TRS) I reloaded and did it all again, got to Vlad and selected just the subs and... same problem - one destroyed and one that refuses to die. Plus the TRS would not be destroyed either when by itself, selected "in-hand" and with hitting Backspace.

So I have concluded you could not have gotten out of this with just the public beta. I reloaded the first file I'd been working on and used the beta-tester tool to get rid of that last sub. So you should be able to continue your game from the attached file.



GaPete_slith -> RE: A Surrender Bug (2/12/2016 8:38:25 PM)

Thanks man! I had tried the valid move thing and got the same reply you did. Didn't know about the backspace thing. I'll remember that in the future. Going to try it now! Still, when the Russians surrendered that cav unit in Finland should have surrendered with Russia. Don't get that but, that's the game. Again, thank you, going to try it right now.



paulderynck -> RE: A Surrender Bug (2/12/2016 8:45:50 PM)

Units outside the home country do not surrender nor does Russian hex control outside Russia change, because this is an Incomplete Conquest situation, not a Complete Conquest.



paulderynck -> RE: A Surrender Bug (2/12/2016 9:14:17 PM)

It just hit me - there's probably dozens of places the Russian ships in Vlad can go and you don't need my fix file because those ships may survive to fight again (although unlikely).

A major power does not need FTC to enter a minor country or territory controlled by a major power on the same side. So any US or CW possession that does not have US or CW units stacked in it (besides Canada, India and Australia and the US West Coast, of course) are valid destinations for those Russian ships. Obviously you don't want to put them in a place the US or CW may want to use for their own units because the Russian units will be disrupted and out of supply, and so will be immobile until they can be in supply from the Mongolian capital (and also get re-oiled if playing with Oil).



GaPete_slith -> RE: A Surrender Bug (2/13/2016 10:59:57 PM)

Did you actually try that in the file I sent you? I did try to send the ships to Iceland (which was a US possession) and several CW controlled ports in the Pacific and islands in the Atlantic. I got various replies as to why this was not a valid move but, I think the main one was something about foreign stacking limits. I don't remember all of the exact ones now but none of them worked. The only one I missed that you found was the port that Russia controlled in Finland. As for it being a partial surrender, yes I understand that but I simply think it's not very realistic that an entire Russian Cavalry corps in Finland would continue the fight when their main base in Murmansk had been surrendered to the Nazi's.



paulderynck -> RE: A Surrender Bug (2/14/2016 2:16:19 AM)

Ever hear of the Czech Legion? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechoslovak_Legion

But the rules are the rules, there's plenty of folks who've been startled by, and strongly disliked, one aspect or another; notably the Multiple States of War rules and how they allow for "Peacekeepers", among several other examples.

So it appears you can use the saved game I sent anyway - glad the time was spent to a good end.

I'll open the original file again and go through the motions. If it turns out they can't go to in-range empty ports in Allied minors or territories, I'll file a bug report.




paulderynck -> RE: A Surrender Bug (2/14/2016 2:42:10 AM)

Checked it out. Greenland and Iceland are US controlled but the game thinks they are neutral which indeed is usually what happens when Denmark is conquered. Clearly a bug with the US entry option.

I was able to return the CP from Murmansk to Bermuda (I'm sure the crew were appreciative compared to other potential arctic destinations). Northern subs to Petsamo. Units in Vlad could go to Guadalcanal! (but no doubt there are a plethora of other possible destinations in the Pacific).

End result - one bug to do with the US Entry Option to Occupy Greenland and Iceland, which I will file with Steve.



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