Trying to cripple Axis through bombing

Trying to cripple Axis through bombing (Full Version)

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humble1 -> Trying to cripple Axis through bombing (2/15/2016 6:47:54 PM)
I decided to focus on vehicle production. It starting to pay off on turn 60, new units (armour/mech) have really been slowed down. Without enough vehicles in panzer units they have really slowed down. I have been using the vehicle bombing for a while(my preferred gambit). But I am now focusing on attacking armaments factories. At turn 59 the germans are producing 104,500 armaments points, 30% reduction. They have stockpiled 4,555,000 armaments points I wonder if I can destroy enough gear start shortages. Consider that full TOE of 1944 german infantry division cost 8690 armaments points. If I am reading the manual right the germans at this point can produce 12 divisons per turn or equal losses. Does anyone know if weekly reinforcements draw on the stockpiles of armaments to be produced? Is there any background factors that suck up armaments points besides the eastern front replacements. I would love to see Germany starved of war material.

Q-Ball -> RE: Trying to cripple Axis through bombing (2/15/2016 7:47:35 PM)
I think bombing Armaments and Resources are futile. Oil is fine for the points, but Germany isn't going to run out of that either. I've had a couple opponents intensively bomb FUEL, and stockpiles did get alarmingly small, but in the end I did not run out Vehicle shortages are real, and bombing it may be worthwhile, though you have to trade that off vs. other VP targets or AFVs Manpower, Vehicles, and AFVs to me are the things that Germany is going to run out of, so bombing those will help create shortages. Everything else I think you are basically just bombing for points. Would love to hear other's experience though

humble1 -> RE: Trying to cripple Axis through bombing (2/15/2016 10:11:54 PM)
I have been going thru the manual and watching through turns keeping tabs on production numbers on both sides. I think that aircraft and afv both require some input of armaments from the stockpile pool. Let me provide an example like I mentioned I had 4,555,000(turn 59) armaments points and then it drops to next turn 4,399,000(turn 60). Germany produced 115,750 armaments over the turn. Plus germany tapped the stockpile for an additional 156,000. So in total the drain on armaments was 271,500 over the turn. Something is tapping the armaments stockpile and its not just infantry weapons and artillery. Looking thru the manual I think maybe the AFV factory only puts together the AFV from components that are produced thru armaments. The manual says that a tiger tank was completed by using armaments components. "A Tiger AFV ground element has a build cost of 673, so it would require 67.3 tons of supplies to produce one such AFV, to include one 88mm gun and two 7.92 machine guns as installed devices" Page 192. Are "installed devices" produced by the armaments factories and stockpiled to complete the ground element(AFV)? Something is tapping the armaments stockpile.

dereck -> RE: Trying to cripple Axis through bombing (2/15/2016 10:57:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Q-Ball I think bombing Armaments and Resources are futile. Oil is fine for the points, but Germany isn't going to run out of that either. I've had a couple opponents intensively bomb FUEL, and stockpiles did get alarmingly small, but in the end I did not run out Vehicle shortages are real, and bombing it may be worthwhile, though you have to trade that off vs. other VP targets or AFVs Manpower, Vehicles, and AFVs to me are the things that Germany is going to run out of, so bombing those will help create shortages. Everything else I think you are basically just bombing for points. Would love to hear other's experience though I only play against the AI and used a modified scenario of my own so I could play a campaign game and use a short game victory point system. I exclusively bombed three targets: Oil, Fuel and Resources. I ended up almost completely wrecking the German economy and by the time I invaded Normandy the Germans didn't have enough fuel to even fly to oppose me. According to the production chart it seems everything goes through those three items. Oil makes Fuel. Fuel makes Supply and Resources help make Supplies and Synthetic Fuel. So don't forget to also target resources or you let the Germans slip fuel into their economy. Why bomb an AFV or Aircraft factory when you can cut off their supply so they can't produce anything?

LiquidSky -> RE: Trying to cripple Axis through bombing (2/15/2016 11:51:37 PM)
The Germans can control the use of the fuel. They don't have to fly. They don't have to move the panzers about. If they park the bombers and only fly them once every couple months, they are going to have fuel when they need it in 1944 and probably 1945. Against a human, he will also move AA assets to areas you want to bomb. The more you bomb them, the harder it will get. He will also put those industries on priority repair, so they will repair faster. He will also park some pretty nasty fighters on Ploesti since you cant escort any bombing runs on it. Bombing the vehicles is a good idea. I try and control the loss of vehicles by disbanding those little motorized/panzer brigades and any extra HQ's I don't need. But it still does impact by late 1944 for sure. The AI will lose the Luftwaffe at a much faster rate then a human will. He will also try and fly all the time, burning up fuel. It might even move it's panzers around willy nilly. All of which makes your experience much different then one versus a human.

Q-Ball -> RE: Trying to cripple Axis through bombing (2/16/2016 4:31:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dereck I only play against the AI and used a modified scenario of my own so I could play a campaign game and use a short game victory point system. I exclusively bombed three targets: Oil, Fuel and Resources. I ended up almost completely wrecking the German economy and by the time I invaded Normandy the Germans didn't have enough fuel to even fly to oppose me. According to the production chart it seems everything goes through those three items. Oil makes Fuel. Fuel makes Supply and Resources help make Supplies and Synthetic Fuel. So don't forget to also target resources or you let the Germans slip fuel into their economy. Why bomb an AFV or Aircraft factory when you can cut off their supply so they can't produce anything? I think experience is going to be very different vs. a human. My comments were in reference to playing humans. As Germany, the only things I've ever run out of, or even been close, are Manpower, AFVs, and Vehicles. FUEL as a mentioned was something I had to monitor, but as LS described, limiting fuel usage is easy enough to do to avoid a major problem. Another thing that the AI doesn't account for. I tend not to bomb MANPOWER, only because the repair rate is too high to get alot of points on that. I do bomb it via RAF BC, but really night bombing is more of an area thing anyway; it just bombs everything in the hex, targeted or not. VEHICLES and AFVs are worthwhile. In particular, you can night bomb the large Ford plant in Cologne, as well as the Ford plant in Antwerp. The largest plant is the Opel factory in Mainz, but that requires day bombing. I like to bomb the Panther plants early, because if they are damaged they cannot expand, so you can keep them at a low production rate. The ones in Berlin are difficult to bomb, mostly because the presence of other AFV factories disperses your bombing too much, so often they are missed. The one in Nuremberg is easy, and the one in Duisburg comically easy; that one should be constantly bombed and not allowed to produce. Later you can also hit the Pzkw IV plants in Magdeberg and Steyr

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