Thoughts on AI (Full Version)

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Gerry4321 -> Thoughts on AI (2/27/2016 1:50:50 AM)

Just played Tutorial 2 as the Americans on Normal difficulty. AI with a couple of turns to go had no VLs captured. But it fired too much and didn't try and move towards those objectives (even Assault would have been good). So it never got near the VLs.

Played Tutorial 1 as the Germans and the defending Americans stayed in place mostly. There never moved towards the northern victory locations as I was grabbing them - they were empty.

Thanks.




Peter Fisla -> RE: Thoughts on AI (2/27/2016 1:53:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gerry

Just played Tutorial 2 as the Americans on Normal difficulty. AI with a couple of turns to go had no VLs captured. But it fired too much and didn't try and move towards those objectives (even Assault would have been good). So it never got near the VLs.

Played Tutorial 1 as the Germans and the defending Americans stayed in place mostly. There never moved towards the northern victory locations as I was grabbing them - they were empty.

Thanks.




Tutorials are just tutorials, please note that the scenarios were designed with "Hard" difficulty in mind. Meaning both sides (AI and human) will be using Command & Control rules.



Gerry4321 -> RE: Thoughts on AI (2/27/2016 1:57:56 AM)

How would hard difficulty get the attacker to move rather than shoot when if they don't move forward they will just lose.



dox44 -> RE: Thoughts on AI (2/27/2016 2:43:01 AM)

to me hard is easier than easy. i've not lost on hard. i like OOC

i haven't seen the AI exploit broken/pinned units. it seems to enjoy
stand off firing. it seems confused in what to do with armor. i've seen
it not take VHs it should but this is only after about 6 scenarios.

so a chance i don't know what the hell i'm talking about too.

i did loose on an easy defend--stalingrad. that was the best i've seen
AI play.

TOTH is a great game. i'll put up with the clicking. never thought i would see
ASL computer. worth every bit of $49.00.

can't wait for module/expansion and now getting back to mopping up
in the forest.



jeffdeham1 -> RE: Thoughts on AI (2/27/2016 5:17:48 AM)

I also saw in the first scenario (with the two stugs) that the AI sat when it was two hexes away from a victory point hex that it easily could have taken preventing me from a major victory. I think the AI could still use a little tweaking here and there. I have seen that Peter already making tweaks so that is huge plus for this game. However like battle plans no AI survives intact it's first contact with the enemy. [;)]

Jeff



Rosseau -> RE: Thoughts on AI (2/27/2016 5:40:26 AM)

Every game I've ever played the computer charges in to its doom. This game it chooses optimal weapons range and picks my defenses apart (in two custom setups). Of course, setting a 40 pt. objective and no points for kills, it needs to move up.

It would help if Special AI Reinforcement Orders could be made for AI on the attack to ensure objective is taken. Currently, can only specify a hex if AI is on Hold order.

In fairness, Campaign Series Middle East with adaptive AI has potential, but custom scripting requires a lot of study (for me).



Gerry4321 -> RE: Thoughts on AI (2/27/2016 11:32:40 PM)

The AI is quite strong thanks to Peter's work but it could always be better of course. Some things I noticed that might help down the road. In the Stalingrad scenario I just played I made a poor move and left a victory location empty. It moved towards this building with a leader and two squads but did not go in enough though it had enough points. So it could have grabbed that location.

Also it moved a stack and left them in open ground instead of moving into the adjacent building so they were very vulnerable there.

Keep up the great work. I am looking forward to more products down the road.



Rakkasan101 -> RE: Thoughts on AI (2/28/2016 5:09:34 AM)

Even if AI is good, it's still acting on an algorithm. I would personally enjoy a way to hack into it and "Fix" a bad move by the computer when it obviously should do something else. Like, when there is an objectively obvious move that the PC should make. I do this all the time when playing ASL with people, because it's such a complicated game, no one can be expected to remember every variable.



iPhoneAppz -> RE: Thoughts on AI (2/28/2016 3:26:38 PM)

As much as I want the DEV and Matrix to make money from their effort in building and publishing this game, I really wish that it were open source. I'd love the ability to build my own AI for the game and I'd love to implement online multi-player. I'd love to actually play against other people.



dynaman216 -> RE: Thoughts on AI (2/28/2016 4:40:20 PM)

AI is not that good, I have not seen it skulk even once. (ASL joke)



madorosh -> RE: Thoughts on AI (2/28/2016 5:35:52 PM)

I started another thread on a brief scenario I knocked out. The AI seems ok at attack-defend, but I designed a meeting engagement. The Russian advanced to the victory hex in good order, but some squads were happy to just sit in the middle of the street for several turns rather than either stopping two hexes away, in solid cover, or advancing into the building.



Gerry4321 -> RE: Thoughts on AI (2/28/2016 5:57:20 PM)

Seen this in the StuG scenario where they will in one case form a firegroup in a paved road hex even though there is a building next door.



Paullus -> RE: Thoughts on AI (2/28/2016 6:02:34 PM)

AI actions are randomized a bit. It calculates the situation shelter, Victory objects, etc but still can do nothing as they are to some extent as you can say as an ASLer dr triggered. This has to do with making the AI more flexible but still calculating. I'm sure Peter will develop the AI further as more people now play the game and several more styles and battle situations will occur than during the development and the Beta test. Reporting strange situation is a good way of letting Peter know of these situations.



Perelandra67 -> RE: Thoughts on AI (2/28/2016 10:03:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gerry

Seen this in the StuG scenario where they will in one case form a firegroup in a paved road hex even though there is a building next door.


is there firegroups in this game? I don't think so.



Perelandra67 -> RE: Thoughts on AI (2/28/2016 10:06:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dynaman216

AI is not that good, I have not seen it skulk even once. (ASL joke)


nice.

Also, just run your 1/2 squad at the enemy and let him use up all his DF, then advance your better troops. Will work every time in this game. That's pretty much the first thing you learn not to do in ASL...



Paullus -> RE: Thoughts on AI (2/28/2016 10:07:19 PM)

No there aren't. Feature request?



Gerry4321 -> RE: Thoughts on AI (2/28/2016 10:09:18 PM)

Fire groups as in ASL would be great Jorgen(I used wrong terminology above).



Paullus -> RE: Thoughts on AI (2/28/2016 10:12:05 PM)

Please if you haven't already, make a request in the Feature Request thread (it's a sticky now)



tjfox1 -> RE: Thoughts on AI (2/29/2016 1:13:26 AM)

To me the AI seems to make a lot of really good shots. Like a tank MG repeatedly breaking units in a stone building. The AI fire attacks seems much more deadly then the humans fire attacks. As an experienced ASL player maybe I'm trying to related it to much to what would happen in ASL.



MikeMarchant_ssl -> RE: Thoughts on AI (2/29/2016 7:31:32 AM)

A bazooka at maximum range destroying a Tiger from the front? Happened to me last night. Did a Tiger ever suffer this in battle? Also M10s seem very difficult to destroy, despite the fact they should be lightly armoured.They also seem to kill every time they shoot, and they shoot often.


Best Wishes

Mike



Peter Fisla -> RE: Thoughts on AI (2/29/2016 12:29:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rosseau

Every game I've ever played the computer charges in to its doom. This game it chooses optimal weapons range and picks my defenses apart (in two custom setups). Of course, setting a 40 pt. objective and no points for kills, it needs to move up.

It would help if Special AI Reinforcement Orders could be made for AI on the attack to ensure objective is taken. Currently, can only specify a hex if AI is on Hold order.

In fairness, Campaign Series Middle East with adaptive AI has potential, but custom scripting requires a lot of study (for me).


The AI can also attack when it is on Defensive. Say you have American AI on HOLD. When reinforcements come on board you can set a specific hex to defend (meaning they will move and defend a specific hex) you can also designate another set of reinforcements to attack...this capability can be set in the editor and it is described in the manual.

Thanks



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