Infantry Smoke? (Full Version)

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blackcloud6 -> Infantry Smoke? (2/29/2016 4:33:00 PM)

I cannot find in the manual anything on infantry smoke grenades. Is this a possible add-on in the future? It would be nice to have this.



Peter Fisla -> RE: Infantry Smoke? (2/29/2016 4:41:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: blackcloud6

I cannot find in the manual anything on infantry smoke grenades. Is this a possible add-on in the future? It would be nice to have this.


Infantry smoke it is not in the game and it will not be added into the game as in WW2 smoke was primarily used for singaling purposes.



mainsworthy -> RE: Infantry Smoke? (2/29/2016 4:44:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla


quote:

ORIGINAL: blackcloud6

I cannot find in the manual anything on infantry smoke grenades. Is this a possible add-on in the future? It would be nice to have this.


Infantry smoke it is not in the game and it will not be added into the game as in WW2 smoke was primarily used for singaling purposes.


Peter I would of thought this was easy to pop an invisible hinderance in a hex, just a bushes tile but invisible, and maybe fired with Guns, you just choose smoke like the AP or HE you already have



blackcloud6 -> RE: Infantry Smoke? (2/29/2016 4:50:30 PM)

quote:

Infantry smoke it is not in the game and it will not be added into the game as in WW2 smoke was primarily used for singaling purposes.


OK, but the US did have the WP smoke grenade for screening purposes and they did exist in other armies, although much less likely. This is a major departure from ASL.

Maybe add it as a support weapon but state in the manual that it should be used sparingly in scenario design?

I do agree that it may not have been as common as some games make it (Steel Panthers comes to mind) but it was there, especially with the US Army and USMC.



Perelandra67 -> RE: Infantry Smoke? (2/29/2016 5:25:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla


quote:

ORIGINAL: blackcloud6

I cannot find in the manual anything on infantry smoke grenades. Is this a possible add-on in the future? It would be nice to have this.


Infantry smoke it is not in the game and it will not be added into the game as in WW2 smoke was primarily used for singaling purposes.



what information do you base this decision on? I have a different understanding of smoke in WW2, but I do respect your WW2 knowledge and would like to understand your reasoning for that statement.



siddious -> RE: Infantry Smoke? (2/29/2016 5:55:39 PM)

Dont let them bully you peter if you have made that decision then stick to it, after all we CANT have everyone harrassing you for a change here there and evrey bloddy where.

The game will not get off the ground if you pamper to everyones little whims.I see nothing wrong with suggestions but its your game remmember.



Gerry4321 -> RE: Infantry Smoke? (2/29/2016 5:58:39 PM)

It's not actually just Peter's game - we paid money for it so I take exception to your problem of people debating gaming issues. Such debate on forums is very important for a game to keep improving and I certainly hope to see future releases. So long as people are polite I think people should always give their 2c.



blackcloud6 -> RE: Infantry Smoke? (2/29/2016 5:59:50 PM)

quote:

Dont let them bully you peter...


No one is bullying Peter. I asked a question and got an answer. It may not be one I fully agree with, so be it. Apparently others have the same question too.

I like this game so far. But there are some features, or lack there of that I wonder why they were done the way they were done. So I'm going to ask.



siddious -> RE: Infantry Smoke? (2/29/2016 6:02:25 PM)

So i cant debate then,my last post then.



blackcloud6 -> RE: Infantry Smoke? (2/29/2016 6:08:23 PM)

quote:

So i cant debate then,my last post then.


Certainly you can debate. But that is not what you did, you accused us of "bullying." Debate the issue. You could have said "I agree with Peter that infantry smoke was hardly used for screening in WWII and thus it does not belong in the game." That would have been a response I appreciated. I may have then asked for your sources.

Frankly, this is an issue I'm not firm on. Infantry smoke grenades for screening purposed did exist in WWII and many armies had them. But their actual and availability use is another issue. I just got a response on another forum that says that use of such for screening by the Germans was a "best practice" in Stalingrad. The poster then cited a book source that has a translated german document stating such.



Gerry4321 -> RE: Infantry Smoke? (2/29/2016 6:11:27 PM)

I would like to see infantry smoke added in as in for the Germans. Smaller probability of course as in ASL. But a computer game could do it differently as in allocate x grenades to a squad/platoon and then account for their use.



blackcloud6 -> RE: Infantry Smoke? (2/29/2016 6:22:38 PM)

Here's some information but point more to doctrine than showing actual use. These two show the Germans had a smoke grenade, but it appears they considered it of limited use and value.

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt08/german-use-of-smoke.html

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt/german-smoke-tactics.html



MikeMarchant_ssl -> RE: Infantry Smoke? (2/29/2016 6:29:35 PM)

That's fascinating, Blackcloud, thanks for sharing that with us.


Best Wishes

Mike



blackcloud6 -> RE: Infantry Smoke? (2/29/2016 6:32:08 PM)

quote:

That's fascinating, Blackcloud, thanks for sharing that with us.


You are welcome but I can't take credit. I got those from a response to a post I made over on the Armchair General forums.



blackcloud6 -> RE: Infantry Smoke? (2/29/2016 6:38:04 PM)

I just had this posted on my Consimworld blog:


From Small Unit Actions during the German Campaign in Russia

Assault Engineers with smoke:

"Organizational weapons and equipment of the platoon included one extra flame thrower, demolition charges, detonators with time fuzes, friction-type fuze lighters, a tool kit, binding wire, tow ropes, hand grenades, smoke cylinders, machinegun ammunition, and one electric mine detector."

"Each individual was issued two smoke cylinders"

"When the 3d Platoon squad set up a smokescreen ..."

"The Germans on the opposite bank hurled smoke grenades, which, aided by a favorable northeast wind, enshrouded both tanks in such dense smoke that their machinegun and cannon fire overshot their mark."

"After blasting open the exhaust vents, they dropped hand grenades and smoke cylinders into the openings."

Regular Infantry:

For marking "A Junkers 88 bomber and a Henschel 126 reconnaissance plane were standing by at the Alakurti airfield ready to airdrop supplies and evacuate wounded in the event of an emergency. They were to be contacted by radio and guided to their target area by smoke signals from the ground."

Russian Infantry: "An unusual amount of smoke grenades was used by the Russians during the preparation fire." Could be mortars.

Cursory search of a single publication.







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