Airbase and Air HQ Questions (Full Version)

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GPT55 -> Airbase and Air HQ Questions (3/5/2016 4:44:13 PM)

Is there any practical difference between all the different airbase types: VVS, PVO, IAB, IAD, BAB, BAD, SAD, DBAD, NBAD, ShAD, etc? I understand that IAD airbases are intended for IAP air groups, ShAD are intended for ShAP, etc. Aside from staying organized is there any advantage to assigning IAP air groups to IAD air bases, rather than VVS, PVO, BAD, etc?

Is there any advantage to limiting the number of air groups assigned to an airbase to less than the max (9 I think)?

Also is there any difference between the air HQs (other than the leader)?

Is there any advantage to limiting the number of airbases assigned to air HQs?







uw06670 -> RE: Airbase and Air HQ Questions (3/5/2016 9:08:11 PM)

I was wondering this as well recently. Does it matter if station fighters at a Bombers base and so forth.



RKhan -> RE: Airbase and Air HQ Questions (3/5/2016 10:56:22 PM)

The two that matter are VVS and PVO.

VVS can support air drops to partisans from level bombers or transports set on night missions. PVO will only launch intercept missions. The rest are interchangeable, though I tend to use them for the express purpose as then I can tell at a glance what is on the base.

I don't think limiting numbers makes a difference.

I don't think there is a difference in HQs.

The last question probably does matter but I don't have the facts to hand.



56ajax -> RE: Airbase and Air HQ Questions (3/6/2016 6:43:59 AM)

As far as I can find there is nothing in the rules that limits fighters on PVO bases to intercept missions. (This notion may have come about because historically PVOs were used for Air Defence).

VVS, SAD and PVO cant obtain Guards status.

SADs are eventually on auto disband which would have to be one of the silliest historical features included in the game.



RKhan -> RE: Airbase and Air HQ Questions (3/6/2016 8:00:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: johntoml56

As far as I can find there is nothing in the rules that limits fighters on PVO bases to intercept missions. (This notion may have come about because historically PVOs were used for Air Defence).

VVS, SAD and PVO cant obtain Guards status.

SADs are eventually on auto disband which would have to be one of the silliest historical features included in the game.


There is unfortunately a lot of trivia that is not in the rules because they appear to be infrequently updated. For example, the latest patch changes several things but there is not rules book update I can find. :(

I got the PVO bit from current veteran players but I'm open to the fact it might be incorrect, or at least incorrect as of the latest rules change.



loki100 -> RE: Airbase and Air HQ Questions (3/6/2016 8:41:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gpt

Is there any practical difference between all the different airbase types: VVS, PVO, IAB, IAD, BAB, BAD, SAD, DBAD, NBAD, ShAD, etc? I understand that IAD airbases are intended for IAP air groups, ShAD are intended for ShAP, etc. Aside from staying organized is there any advantage to assigning IAP air groups to IAD air bases, rather than VVS, PVO, BAD, etc?

Is there any advantage to limiting the number of air groups assigned to an airbase to less than the max (9 I think)?

Also is there any difference between the air HQs (other than the leader)?

Is there any advantage to limiting the number of airbases assigned to air HQs?



to add to the other replies.

when you allocate airgroups look at the number of planes each base can support. Add too many and you planes don't repair. So if you stack 9*Il-4 squadrons at the same base it will cease to function. If you stack 9*U2VS it'll be ok. My very rough rule of thumb is you can stack about 160 single engined planes, 100-120 double engined at the same base - but watch out as some types are more demanding than others.

Also, if you go to the commanders report and enable the supply view, you will see the supply demand at an airbase is partly related to the number of aircraft. By existing each base pulls in supply and trucks, you might as well use this as you are paying this cost in any case. As you add more planes, you increase (and its not linear) the supply/truck demand.

So advice is to stay below the support level for a base to optimise the logistics.

FWIW, I'm coming to the view that more, under-used airbases may be the best solution (but I am not at all sure about this)

Air HQs are linked in the command chain to a Front (Soviet) or Army Group (Axis) - they will only provide ground attack missions for units in the same command.

There used to be a reason to limit airbases as they were added to the command load of the Front/AG Commander. This doesn't happen any more.



56ajax -> RE: Airbase and Air HQ Questions (3/6/2016 10:33:57 AM)

Well there is no mention of the PVO only intercept rule in the original and updated rule book or the release notes up to the current release that I can find.



loki100 -> RE: Airbase and Air HQ Questions (3/6/2016 11:06:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: johntoml56

Well there is no mention of the PVO only intercept rule in the original and updated rule book or the release notes up to the current release that I can find.


its still true.

Do a test. In your own air turn load up a normal (ie not PVO) base with fighters and a PVO base and another with bombers. Make sure the Germans have a nearby airbase with fighters and bombers.

Do some ground attack missions, you'll see the PVO planes don't contribute. Flip the turn and do some German ground attacks, you'll see the PVO planes operate.

Its actually quite useful if you use it to your advantage. It means you keep a batch of fighters fresh for the German turn. All helps with managing the air war.



RKhan -> RE: Airbase and Air HQ Questions (3/6/2016 6:14:32 PM)


quote:





Also, if you go to the commanders report and enable the supply view, you will see the supply demand at an airbase is partly related to the number of aircraft. By existing each base pulls in supply and trucks, you might as well use this as you are paying this cost in any case. As you add more planes, you increase (and its not linear) the supply/truck demand.

So advice is to stay below the support level for a base to optimise the logistics.

FWIW, I'm coming to the view that more, under-used airbases may be the best solution (but I am not at all sure about this)




I must be looking in the wrong place as all seems fine and I have lots of maxed out airbases. Please can you help?


[image]local://upfiles/53416/D9FB4E071F614B1B88204726CCF6C6B6.jpg[/image]



loki100 -> RE: Airbase and Air HQ Questions (3/6/2016 8:19:42 PM)

there are two modes, if you click on the 'abs' value you shift between the relative supply data (ie are you moving enough to that unit) and the raw supply demand by that unit.

The attached is from my game vs vigabrand. As you can see I have a few bases with a high supply demand - these are where the 2 engined recon/bombers/transports are. Then masses with around 73, these are showing the minimum demand and most will have single engined bombers or fighters (or my maurading mass of U2s)



[image]local://upfiles/43256/DE306CC301BF4938936CEC73FCAB8E05.jpg[/image]



56ajax -> RE: Airbase and Air HQ Questions (3/7/2016 5:54:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: johntoml56

Well there is no mention of the PVO only intercept rule in the original and updated rule book or the release notes up to the current release that I can find.


its still true.

Do a test. In your own air turn load up a normal (ie not PVO) base with fighters and a PVO base and another with bombers. Make sure the Germans have a nearby airbase with fighters and bombers.

Do some ground attack missions, you'll see the PVO planes don't contribute. Flip the turn and do some German ground attacks, you'll see the PVO planes operate.

Its actually quite useful if you use it to your advantage. It means you keep a batch of fighters fresh for the German turn. All helps with managing the air war.


Well I've done a test.

I found a PVO base containing 2 fighter, 2 tactical bomber and 1 level bomber squadron. 7 hexes away is a German Inf division which I decided to bomb. So F6 (bomb unit mode) then shift mouse click to see what units available for the bombing and none of the units from the PVO base are available even though that is the closest air base.

So I selected the PVO base as a staging airbase, repeated the above steps and all 5 from the PVO were added to the selections for the bombing mission. I selected only the 5 from the PVO and all flew and all attacked the enemy.

Perhaps PVO airbases are like AXIS Allies; they never fly unless you select one of their airbases as a staging base.




RKhan -> RE: Airbase and Air HQ Questions (3/7/2016 6:57:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: johntoml56

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: johntoml56

Well there is no mention of the PVO only intercept rule in the original and updated rule book or the release notes up to the current release that I can find.


its still true.

Do a test. In your own air turn load up a normal (ie not PVO) base with fighters and a PVO base and another with bombers. Make sure the Germans have a nearby airbase with fighters and bombers.

Do some ground attack missions, you'll see the PVO planes don't contribute. Flip the turn and do some German ground attacks, you'll see the PVO planes operate.

Its actually quite useful if you use it to your advantage. It means you keep a batch of fighters fresh for the German turn. All helps with managing the air war.


Well I've done a test.

I found a PVO base containing 2 fighter, 2 tactical bomber and 1 level bomber squadron. 7 hexes away is a German Inf division which I decided to bomb. So F6 (bomb unit mode) then shift mouse click to see what units available for the bombing and none of the units from the PVO base are available even though that is the closest air base.

So I selected the PVO base as a staging airbase, repeated the above steps and all 5 from the PVO were added to the selections for the bombing mission. I selected only the 5 from the PVO and all flew and all attacked the enemy.

Perhaps PVO airbases are like AXIS Allies; they never fly unless you select one of their airbases as a staging base.




Nicely done Johnstom.

I think the point most of the vetrans make is that PVO can help you reserve some fighters for interception by leaving them out of AI conducted missions, but you have shown that you can force them to fly manually if you really want to.



uw06670 -> RE: Airbase and Air HQ Questions (3/7/2016 5:50:17 PM)

I have noticed that some recon units won't show up in the possible list for a mission (shift-click on enemy hex) unless I select that AB first. Perhaps this is influenced by base type?



GPT55 -> RE: Airbase and Air HQ Questions (3/13/2016 2:34:01 PM)

Thanks for the great answers. Previously I only played as Axis (against the AI) and mostly ignored the air war. Now I'm playing Russians and find I can't/shouldn't ignore it completely. With the new 3 per hex bombing rule the air war seems more important. But there are so many mysteries!



morvael -> RE: Airbase and Air HQ Questions (3/14/2016 10:13:01 PM)

To fly automatically for ground support airbases must be under front air HQ of the front which units are involved in battle (and I think only one air HQ is chosen as main air HQ and groups from other HQs have trouble flying, hence need to manually select air bases). I think those PVO bases are under their own HQ, thus the idea that they do not contribute to automatic GS missions.
I see some difference in how the AI fills PVO bases, but nothing preventing human player to use them as they wish.
They (and VVS) won't become guards, that is true.
The really important ones are VVS, OSNAZ (as VVS) which are primary choice for partisan resupply, with DBAD and *AD DD which are secondary choice for partisan resupply.

Other than that try to keep simple air command structure with all bases under single front air command (per front).



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