Ok, so how's the most important thing in the game?..... (Full Version)

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aaatoysandmore -> Ok, so how's the most important thing in the game?..... (3/11/2016 2:20:05 PM)

The AI? I read the description hype on the forum description but, does it really live up to all that? How many times have we heard new improved AI etc. etc. Only to find out it's dumb as dirt?



Rakkasan101 -> RE: Ok, so how's the most important thing in the game?..... (3/11/2016 3:53:10 PM)

My two cents. Nothing to write home about, in my opinion. I suspect that the lack of multiplayer in a game that is an adaptation of a boardgame probably turned some people off (as it should have), and that necessitated the hype about the AI. While playing this, I've revisisted Squad Battles, Heroes of Stalingrad, and Steel Pathners, and I haven't noticed any specific improvements.

If anything, the nature of the phases in this game make the AI fumbles even more glaring, where they probably wouldn't be in another game. What I wouldn't give for the ability to reach in an "fix" a move that the AI should have done. In VASL, my opponent and I would rout each others pieces all the time, cause we usually knew the objectively best move to make, and would save time emailing them back and forth.

I suppose the AI can be relatively competent during defensive fire and target selection. I've seen it pass up my little Half-Squads sent to scout in favor of waiting to nail a bigger target. Which is pretty cool. But I've also seen it take the bait in a way that a human player never would.



kylania -> RE: Ok, so how's the most important thing in the game?..... (3/11/2016 3:53:41 PM)

Here's a post on the front page of this forum, just 13 posts below this one.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4039283



idjester -> RE: Ok, so how's the most important thing in the game?..... (3/11/2016 4:01:56 PM)

Of course the AI is based on the processing code put into it, therefore it doesn't always make the perfect decision. But you can setup the AI in a scenario to attack or defend certain hexes.

The AI isn't perfect and there have been reports of some silly things but I haven't experienced any of that. In fact I experienced the exact opposite where the AI attacked a location over and over again and in the very last turn their Close combat results took over the victory point and caused me to go from a major victory to a draw.

(I don't want to talk about it....)

I also had a scenario where the AI did the perfect thing and used his units to mow down my units until they has a clear path to the unit exit hex. He waited until the last turn and moved his units off the map board to get all those victory points. But the AI just didn't just run over there and exit them he waited and used them perfectly to assault my units, destroy them, and then moved them off for the points. It was an AI total victory.

Your mileage may very because its always subjective as to what the AI does that is good or bad. I would suggest you watch some of the many videos out there and see for yourself but the AI is good and seams to give a lot of people problems out there. Once Peter codes out some of the problem issues I think the AI will be top-notch.



dynaman216 -> RE: Ok, so how's the most important thing in the game?..... (3/11/2016 4:19:47 PM)

I beat the AI all the time. It gives a reasonable account of itself in defense but so far it ALWAYS falls for the blind spot ambush - repeatedly.



GregN -> RE: Ok, so how's the most important thing in the game?..... (3/11/2016 4:36:01 PM)

I've been known to fall for the blind spot ambush - like last night when the AI cut me up badly with long range mg fire - and the AI seemed to be getting better die rolls for sustained ROF, but that happens in the board game too!



pzgndr -> RE: Ok, so how's the most important thing in the game?..... (3/11/2016 4:52:40 PM)

For an initial release it seems ok enough.  Some enhancements along the way in future updates should help.  I haven't tried Very Hard yet, but if additional difficulty settings are needed like +1 for AI spotting or small bonuses for AI fire hit/damage chances then those options could be considered?



Gerry4321 -> RE: Ok, so how's the most important thing in the game?..... (3/11/2016 5:03:59 PM)

Two biggest problems I see:
1. Leaving units in the open when there is a stone building next to it.
2. Not advancing into a victory location when it is empty. Also at a time when the AI is losing the scenario.



Ratzki -> RE: Ok, so how's the most important thing in the game?..... (3/11/2016 6:40:28 PM)

I wonder if the AI seems to be worse because most of the scenarios have relatively few units on the map. Fewer units would make any mistakes seem more drastic no matter if the opponent was the AI or human. I would like to see what the AI performs like when there are some larger engagements. I think that Idjester uploaded a very large scenario, has anyone played it yet and does the AI perfrom better or worse as more and more units are at it's disposal?



Gerry4321 -> RE: Ok, so how's the most important thing in the game?..... (3/11/2016 7:45:58 PM)

I don't think it will matter as the flaws I mention seem very basic. Wondering if it is something like SASL which I have played where there is some randomness, for example a unit is moving and where it will move to is guided in part by VLs but also a die roll.



Rakkasan101 -> RE: Ok, so how's the most important thing in the game?..... (3/11/2016 8:34:35 PM)

Having played a few of the mod scenarios (Tractor Works, GREAT STUFF!), it would seem that it is not so much that the AI isn't very good, but that it plays like a new ASL player. The AI simply won't press the attack if there is an enemy in cover close by. It will just stack up and try to break it with fire which, especially in Stalingrad with no fire groups, is extremely difficult to do. The AI just won't move out until the nearby threat is suppressed.

Which isn't exactly a dumb thing to do. It's only dumb in the context of finite turns, where "X" must be accomplished in order to stay on mission and schedule. I'm constantly having to explain this to new ASL players, "Hey listen, I know you want to break my units rather than running through a hail of bullets, but sooner or later you're gonna have to make a risky move in order to make progress"

With the Tractor works, I was in full control of the building by turn 4 of 8, and he still had almost all of his units stacked up in their initial starting positions at the South of the map, blasting away unsuccessfully at my smaller units in the stone buildings. Hell, even a mad rush to the factory would have been more productive than the precious time wasted plinking away at me.

A lot of it has to do with the dice, but the AI just doesn't seem to have a plan for when the dice don't go his way. This is the exact same problem that a noob at ASL would have. These are just my opinions from what I've seen thus far.



Peter Fisla -> RE: Ok, so how's the most important thing in the game?..... (3/11/2016 8:41:12 PM)

The AI will be tweaked/improved once i fixed critical bugs...so no worries. Just a thought, for a good challenge, you can play at the hardest settings - the player has to ceck for command and control but the AI units are always in command and FOW is enabled.

Note: AI doesn't cheat, it doesn't get any +/-1 bonuses.



barkhorn45 -> RE: Ok, so how's the most important thing in the game?..... (3/11/2016 8:46:12 PM)

As basically a solitaire game the ai should have been a priority.
This and other thing's(like vehicles not being able to carry inf.HT's can't carrie them?That's what they were made for)
I regret getting the game now.



Gerry4321 -> RE: Ok, so how's the most important thing in the game?..... (3/11/2016 8:47:17 PM)

Great to hear Peter. Thanks. Really enjoying it so far.



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