AA-2 missiles minimum Target altitude (Full Version)

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neno -> AA-2 missiles minimum Target altitude (3/14/2016 3:53:11 PM)

I wonder why is minimum target altitude for AA-2a/b (R-3R and R-3S) missiles 5000ft? Especially since the Aim-9, on which both missiles are based, has min target altitude 30ft.



ComDev -> RE: AA-2 missiles minimum Target altitude (3/14/2016 4:10:50 PM)

Lack of data on the AIM-9B [8D]

What should the min altitude be?

Sources?



neno -> RE: AA-2 missiles minimum Target altitude (3/14/2016 4:56:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: emsoy

Lack of data on the AIM-9B [8D]

What should the min altitude be?

Sources?

According to Yefim Gordon's book "Soviet/Russian aircraft weapons since WW2", the altitudes for R-3S should be 0-75,000ft, for R-13M 0-72,180ft. Both are IR guided, based on Aim-9. For the SARH variant, R-3R, the altitude is 3,280-70,540ft.



ComDev -> RE: AA-2 missiles minimum Target altitude (3/14/2016 5:29:46 PM)

Hmm okay, although early IR seekers were useless at low altitudes as they locked on to heat sources on the ground?



ComDev -> RE: AA-2 missiles minimum Target altitude (3/14/2016 5:43:26 PM)

AIM-4: 10 500 ft minimum effective altitude.

https://books.google.no/books?id=CEb1sFobGgcC&pg=PA58&lpg=PA58&dq=aim-9b+minimum+altitude&source=bl&ots=FhLNlxvftY&sig=oAPL85z6k1ITeNNgfFdmlZIODz8&hl=no&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi6-bbXzcDLAhXMNJoKHTcWBLg4ChDoAQgbMAE#v=onepage&q=aim-9b%20minimum%20altitude&f=false

AIM-9B is probably similar. Will update the database [8D]



Primarchx -> RE: AA-2 missiles minimum Target altitude (3/14/2016 6:02:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: emsoy

Hmm okay, although early IR seekers were useless at low altitudes as they locked on to heat sources on the ground?


Correct, if you are firing at targets in the ground clutter. Early IRMs also had an issue with firing toward the sun, though I'm not sure if we'll see that in Command! :>



neno -> RE: AA-2 missiles minimum Target altitude (3/14/2016 6:14:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: emsoy

Hmm okay, although early IR seekers were useless at low altitudes as they locked on to heat sources on the ground?

Good point, no doubt. I don't know how much the ground interference had an effect on the early seekers, I'm no expert. [:)] It was the difference between the min altitudes for AA-2 and AIM-9B (which are practicaly the same missiles) that made me wonder.

Thanks for looking into it!



neno -> RE: AA-2 missiles minimum Target altitude (3/14/2016 6:28:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: emsoy

AIM-4: 10 500 ft minimum effective altitude.


I think the link you provided is about the range problems at low altitude, not the ground interference.



CV60 -> RE: AA-2 missiles minimum Target altitude (3/15/2016 2:52:54 AM)


FWIW, this is the article I wrote for Weapon_396, the AIM-9B. Although I was unable to find a minimum altitude for firing, I did find references to ground IR interfering with the seeker. Also, FWIW, official documents rate teh sea level performance, indicating that it could be fired low, although I could not find references for exactly how low:


OVERVIEW: The AIM-9B Sidewinder is a short-range, supersonic, infrared guided (IR) air-to-air missile with a 4.5 kilogram warhead.

DETAILS: The AIM-9B Sidewinder is capable of only rear-aspect attacks. Designed to intercept lumbering bombers, the AIM-9B was ill suited to dogfighting at low level. Its launch load factor limit of 2G hampered aircrew, while its seeker very often locked on to the sun or clouds, subsequently sending the missile ballistic. At lower altitudes ground infrared interfered with target IR.

Specifications:
Weight: 76 kg
Length: 2.83 m
Diameter: 127 mm
Wingspan: 0.53 m
Warhead: 4.5 kg, blast fragmentation

PERFORMANCE:
Operational range: 2.0 km (1.1 mn) sea level ; 4.6 km (2.5nm) at 30K feet.
Speed: 2.5 mach
Maneuverability: 12 g

NOTES: IOC 1956. Developed in the early 1950's and continually updated, the AIM-9 family is one of the oldest, least expensive, and most successful air-to-air missiles, with an estimated 270 aircraft kills in its history of use. The AIM-9F was the European version of the AIM-9B. The primary difference is a more sensitive CO2-based cooler for the seeker head. Also called the AIM-9B FGW.2.

SOURCES: Friedman, Norman, "The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997-1998, Annapolis, MD: Naval
Institute Press, 1997, pg. 427 ; "AIM-9 Sidewinder - Military Power." Welcome to the Military Power Wiki - Military Power. Accessed September 1, 2015. http://militarypower.wikidot.com/aim-9-sidewinder ; "AIM-9 Sidewinder." Federation Of American Scientists -. Accessed September 1, 2015. http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/aim-9.htm ; "AIM-9 Sidewinder." Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia. Accessed September 1, 2015. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-9_Sidewinder ; "Raytheon AIM-9 Sidewinder." Designation-Systems.Net. Accessed September 1, 2015. http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-9.html ; "The Sidewinder Story / The Evolution of the AIM-9 Missile." Air Power Australia. Accessed September 1, 2015. http://www.ausairpower.net/TE-Sidewinder-94.html ; "U.S. Naval Museum of Armament & Technology." U.S. Naval Museum of Armament & Technology. Accessed September 1, 2015. http://www.chinalakemuseum.org/exhibits/sidewinder.shtml ; "US Air-to-Air Missiles." Accessed September 2, 2015. http://www.pmulcahy.com/aams/us_aams.htm.



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