Assault tips please (Full Version)

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Wolfleader -> Assault tips please (4/8/2003 9:37:29 AM)

Doing okay with meeting engagements and defences and managing to get my boys out in one piece but still having a bit of trouble with assaults. I still meet or at least partially meet my objectives but my forces usually take quite a mauling in the process.

Any hints and tips to increase my lads chances of walking out alive during an assault scenario?

Thanks.



bigtroutz -> (4/8/2003 4:25:07 PM)

lotsa artillery....especially rockets....targeted on your axis of advance will do the trick. The arty will suppress and kill and also act as a smoke screen.

do a search on arty to find all the excellent previous threads.



Sturmpionier -> Schwerpunkt (4/8/2003 8:51:20 PM)

A big part of a good assault is picking the right spot. Finding the 'soft spot' can make the difference between victory and a truckload of dogtags. Recce and good battle planning both are crucial here. Try to find a spot where the natural defences look the weakest. Probe the area with low cost troops to make sure that the unnatural defences don't overcompensate. A big trick is to then get the bulk of your force through the gap before counter arty fires start. Smoke is key to all of this.

If all else fails, blast the heck out of them with as much arty as you can find and roll through.;)



challenge -> (4/8/2003 10:28:56 PM)

One of my early mistakes was assaulting across too wide a front. Just because your opponent stretches defenses across the board, you don't have to hit everywhere. A defensive infantry platoon has about 5 - 10 hexes (250 - 500 m) as a front; on attack you use about half that.

With smoke, artillery and other support, you can isolate a section of the defense. Throw your mass against that much smaller area and you have two or three platoons engaging one or two of his. Use overwatch with something like assualt guns or medium armor as you slowly move infantry closer and leap frog your infantry so the first one taking fire each turn is not always the same squad. This gives your infantry a chance to recover, and moving them one hex at a time gives bonuses to defense numbers.

Against the AI you can throw your entire formation against a small section to open a hole for the rest -- against a human player, you'll need to watch the flanks and be ready for the reserves the other player will likely send in to support the defense.

As Sturmpionier mentioned, probe for the weak spots and use the terrain to your advantage. Recon units fit this role well: I use mobile units -- like the kublewagon with MG -- to drop foot recon just beyond enemy LOS. Then I move the foot recon into position (1 hex at a time) and put them on defend while I move the jeeps in and out of LOS. The recon sighting advantage, coupled with its ability to hide better, usually means I get to see at least a portion of the opposition defense positions.

In general, don't rush the enemy defenses unless you have overwhelming firepower and can reduce them quickly. Every infantry unit exposed to fire [I]will[/I] take fire, so limit exposure as much as possible. Fast foot takes more casualties than infantry moving slowly (1 hex/turn), but faster vehicles are harder to hit. I think it was Gmanfan who once wrote: Smoking in SPWAW is not bad for your health. (Please forgive if I named the wrong person on this -- it's been a while since I read it.)



rbrunsman -> (4/9/2003 1:03:19 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bigtroutz
[B]lotsa artillery....especially rockets....targeted on your axis of advance will do the trick. The arty will suppress and kill and also act as a smoke screen.

do a search on arty to find all the excellent previous threads. [/B][/QUOTE]

Only use rockets and other heavy arty for pre-bombardment (i.e. while you are out of harm's way). The big stuff will reveal mines for you and even get rid of some of them. However, the big stuff and especially rockets are too inaccurate for the close support you need to keep the enemy suppressed while you pick your way through the mine fields. You need the smaller mortars for fast response and pinpoint accuracy.

I also like the heavy calibre assault guns (i.e. 100mm+) because they cause suppression to the neighboring hexes. So, if you indirect fire the hexes you can see, you also cause suppression and the occassional splash damage to hexes outside of your LOS. You can then move up and dislodge those dug in units that you otherwise couldn't see.

Put smoke in front of bunkers and then bypass them. They take up too much time otherwise.



bigtroutz -> (4/9/2003 12:46:18 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman
[B]Only use rockets and other heavy arty for pre-bombardment (i.e. while you are out of harm's way). The big stuff will reveal mines for you and even get rid of some of them. However, the big stuff and especially rockets are too inaccurate for the close support you need to keep the enemy suppressed while you pick your way through the mine fields. You need the smaller mortars for fast response and pinpoint accuracy.

I also like the heavy calibre assault guns (i.e. 100mm+) because they cause suppression to the neighboring hexes. So, if you indirect fire the hexes you can see, you also cause suppression and the occassional splash damage to hexes outside of your LOS. You can then move up and dislodge those dug in units that you otherwise couldn't see.

Put smoke in front of bunkers and then bypass them. They take up too much time otherwise. [/B][/QUOTE]

errr... there is no reason you cannot use heavies/rockets in a rolling barrage manner and or to enlarge the breakthru corridor's flanks. it is true you must keep in mind the likely spread of arty rounds falling. This is one of the reasons to consider positioning arty closer to your front lines (= smaller hit pattern spread). When using rockets in a rolling barrage, I typically shift fire 6-10 hexes from the last target hex, depending on the distance of the target from the firing point.

All that said, I TOTALLY agree that smaller mortars, etc are what to use for any close support arty. Typically I use 60 mm for enemy 1 hex from my units, 81mm for 2 hex+ keeping in mind that close support mortars need to be closer to the target to avoid pattern spread. Firing 60mm mortar close support from 40 hexes distance will result in plenty of friendly fire hits.



rbrunsman -> (4/9/2003 1:00:27 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bigtroutz
[B]errr... there is no reason you cannot use heavies/rockets in a rolling barrage manner and or to enlarge the breakthru corridor's flanks. it is true you must keep in mind the likely spread of arty rounds falling. This is one of the reasons to consider positioning arty closer to your front lines (= smaller hit pattern spread). When using rockets in a rolling barrage, I typically shift fire 6-10 hexes from the last target hex, depending on the distance of the target from the firing point.

All that said, I TOTALLY agree that smaller mortars, etc are what to use for any close support arty. Typically I use 60 mm for enemy 1 hex from my units, 81mm for 2 hex+ keeping in mind that close support mortars need to be closer to the target to avoid pattern spread. Firing 60mm mortar close support from 40 hexes distance will result in plenty of friendly fire hits. [/B][/QUOTE]

Agreed. I just didn't want people to forget about the close support needed to push through the defenses. Hitting with the big stuff and then arriving 2 turns later doesn't do you as much good as a small mortar barrage right on the spot right before your men walk up to the target hex.



slyone -> (4/9/2003 3:55:20 PM)

My few hints:

1. Do not attack front-wide. Find 2 / 3 spots in the front where you will get through and group your forces in there.

2. Help yourself with terrain.

3. Prepare the assault on chosen 2/3 spots with lots of arty and smoke on your sides (so that the enemy's front don't shoot you from sides)

4. When you get through pour your forces behind the enemy's line and get the VH and attack from behind.

5. When playing against AI (e.g. WWII Long Campaing), the AI is often covering the outer ridges of the map worse than the middle.

6. Infiltration of special forces or paratrooper drop-out behind enemy lines also helps.

;)



Griefbringer -> (4/9/2003 8:54:18 PM)

A lot of good stuff has already been given, I can try to give some more support for them:

1.) Protect your forces from enemy fire by the use of terrain and smoke.

2.) Don't rush with your attack. Recon well first to locate the enemy positions (especially fortifications and anti-tanks weapons and minefields). Don't advance too fast. Use proper preliminary barrages on enemy positions.

3.) When attacking, concentrate your forces on a small part of the enemy frontage.

Taking well-defended positions is often pretty tough job. Trying to do it with force is likely to cause a lot of casualties (not a problem if you are playing with the Ruskies).

Griefbringer



Irinami -> (4/9/2003 9:18:52 PM)

Divide and conquer... or, as I call it, Compartmentalize. I have yet to try this against a human opponent, but it should be similar in effect:

Drop an arty barrage of smoke around the area you wish to attack. It should look something like this:

[FONT=courier new]
_____
[__$_
[__$_
[__$_
[/FONT]

The solid bars are lines of smoke. The $-sign is a possible smoke location. What this does is that it isolates the area you are going to attack. Since you have dropped a line of smoke in front of it's neighbors to the "north" and "south," they cannot assist in defending your assault without moving out of position. Neither can their friends behind them. If you smoke the area directly in front of them, then you will have the advantage of fighting in-close with the enemy... but will also be at the disadvantage of doing the same.

There are disadvantages to this tactic. First, you telegraph your actions. That's why three sections are isolated. Second, once you take a section you have the disadvantage of not knowing what's beyond the smoke. If you make a longer compartment to attack into, then there may be too many enemies in there. A shorter one, and you only know about a small portion of the enemy's forces. Either way, you will have to either abandon the compartment or fight through the smoke... possibly facing an even stiffer resistance on the other side.

You will have to be fast against a human opponent. I suggest doing this for the first turn: Drop your heavy arty along the enemy's line before the first turn. Also (and after the heavies have fallen, if at all possible, since HE's natural smoke may end up taking precedence over dropped smoke and thus thinning your smoke screen), drop the smoke with your 60, 80-82, and other small mortars. (Though a 150 or 8" barrage of smoke may well cover the entire compartment!)

If you have the timing down, you can compartmentalize when you're 2 or fewer turns away from the enemy.

Sometimes you can use terrain (hills, orchards, trees) to save smoke. EG, if there is an orchard south of their position, you can avoid dropping smoke there since that terrain feature will obscure LOS enough.

Have fun.



Buzzard45 -> Great Thread. (4/9/2003 10:10:15 PM)

You guys have all my secrets:(

A word about counter attack. Be prepared for it. Bring up ATGs for defense. Tanks should only be used in defense in an agressive manor. That means hide them until your turn. Then do a shoot and skoot behind smoke or terrain. If you leave them out in the open or behind the 1st line of smoke you will likely lose them to a determined counter-attack. Let the ATGs and MGs take the brunt of the attack and then bring out your own counter-counter-attack. Hit the area with arty at .5 delay for advance or 0.1 or 0.0 delay for defend.

NEVER LEAVE A TANK ALONE IN THE OPEN. HE WILL DIE.



Gary Tatro -> Re: Great Thread. (4/10/2003 1:05:50 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Buzzard45
[B]NEVER LEAVE A TANK ALONE IN THE OPEN. HE WILL DIE. [/B][/QUOTE]

Hmmm. Who did you learn that one from. :D :D :D



Buzzard45 -> Re: Re: Great Thread. (4/10/2003 12:16:43 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gary Tatro
[B]Hmmm. Who did you learn that one from. :D :D :D [/B][/QUOTE]
From you my fine bean counting friend.:D

I learned the lesson well, although it was painful.:cool:



MOTHER -> ASSAULT ADVICE (4/10/2003 5:27:58 PM)

'HE WHO ATTACKS EVERYWHERE ATTACKS NOWHERE 'AND CONVERSLY' HE WHO DEFENDS EVERYWHERE DEFENDS NOWHERE'.ALSO REMEMBER THE ONUS IS ON THE DEFENDER TO RETAKE WHATS NOW YOUR FLAG AND BECAUSE YOU NOW KNOW WHAT THEY WANT , HIT EM HARD WHEN THEY COME!.:mad:



Klinkenhoffen -> (4/11/2003 7:39:17 AM)

Mother,

So that explains that big wall of Su-122's and engineers bearing down on me.

They just took a beating from Fritz.:D ,but I am sure that you will give as good as you got.

klinkenhoffen



robot -> Assault the mines (4/13/2003 7:44:27 PM)

Long campaign set up to assault the enemy. I buy at least 3 sec of 150s. Line them up to fire jsut behind the green line. I usually assault towards a hill that overlooks one of the objective flags. Then i put 2 to 4 platoons of engineers lined up in lines. This gives me a four hex front to remove mines. My bombardment lasts from 5 to 8 turns By this time if im lucky a hole has opened in the mine line. I then walk the barrage back 2 hexes at a turn. At the same time bringing up the engineers behind the smoke my mortors and 75s have laid. This gives me 5 squads or full platoon working on 1 hex at a time. As soon as there is breach in at least 1 hex i bring thru my infantry while the engineers open the breach.
Once the inf has moved in my tanks come thru for support. As soon as they can get control of the hill my sigs and tank guns move to the hill. They then overlook the advance on the flags around this hill. As your 150s barrage moves forward this helps keep there mortor incoming at you down too.
Also if i have the points i will buy either paras are infiltrators to harras the enemy in the rear. This will divert some of there forces maybe not much sometime. But any thing that is away from your advance is a big help. MY way maybe not the right way but works for me.



challenge -> You play the AI a lot, (4/13/2003 9:56:09 PM)

don't you? ;)

The reason I say that is because the infantry (engineer) formation you described wouldn't get close enough to the line intact. Since the AI doesn't handle moving artillery targets well, your engineers get to move forward pretty much intact. A human would anticipate the location of the infantry on your next turn and drop a salvo of artillery on them. Because they're bunched up, the adjacent splash effect from the artillery would decimate the tightly packed line with overlapping target hexes.

Human players rarely string mines across the front of the setup lines. Instead they place them to cover likely avenues of approach. Then they cover them with overlapping fields of mg fire, spread out to prevent the tactics you described from taking out all of the support.

By spreading out the engineers with two or three hexes between them, you widen the front at the same time reducing the losses possible from a single artillery barrage.



robot -> (4/14/2003 8:11:48 PM)

Forgot to mention this was against the ai. It is the long campaign true against the ai. And yes you are right about those tatics being wrong against human. Thats why when i play ai my troops start out as green. I like the advancment thing of your troops in the long run. Trying to keep green troops alive is a task in its own right. Also the use of scouts against the ai is a moot point too. They just are not as usful as against human. But i still use them a lot. Also another thing i do against the ai that i would not waste my time on against humans is the pill boxes. I like to blow them up as i go along. Why i dont know. But in real life they become a thorn in your back side if you pass them all up.

The AI in the use of artillary is stupid. My losses to AI artty is so minamil that i dont even think about it. I would be just as stupid against humans in a battle as the AI is against me i guess. I know my tatics are horrendus. But it is a short coming i can live with against the AI. But if i were to play a human player wow. Suicide would be a option to think about maybe.



Martin Sabre -> (4/21/2003 7:26:19 PM)

I can only echo what others have said in their replies;

1. Pick a small area to conduct the breakthrough, I normally try to limit this frontage to about 5 hexes, this allows for a concentration in engineers to clear up any surviving mines.

2. Use Medium & Heavy Arty (100mm+) to reveal and to remove the mines in front of your planned breakthrough area.

3. If you have any air strikes, use them to hit a couple of hex rows back from the front line, as this can often reveal any infantry trench lines set back from the front. after the first couple of turns, you can always shift these strikes onto any close by hilltops, which are normally the positions of any AA batteries, also this can help to lessen any freindly fire incidents near to the front line.

4. Always support the engineers/pioneers with Assault Guns or SP IG's and Flame vehicles.

5. Use Medium Mortars to initially cover the assault with smoke fired in a hemisphere around the assault point, to shield the enginners/vehicles from any flanking fire.

I rarely use infiltration troops or paras on Assault missions, as sometimes they can be cut off without support for a long time. I tend to use these more in advance situations where the enemy is on a delay mission (a quick check of the map when buying support elements will reveal if it is an advance/advance or advance/delay scenario) where the chances of being bogged done in static defences are reduced.



Wild Bill -> (5/2/2003 3:52:11 AM)

I've read through all of these fine replies and I don't remember seeing the "leap frog" approach mentioned.

If you line up a platoon or more of your troops against a particular strong point, use fire and manuever. Try to pin the enemy and hurt his op fire capability and then move a unit or two forward. This is particularly good when using engineers supported by dogfaces.

All of the other things, a sharp thrust instead of a bludgeon, artillery and smoke, even armor all help to break the enemy's line.

Wild Bill



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