RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build?

RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (Full Version)

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Alfred -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/22/2016 2:47:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe Lilly Ib are excellent Japanese bombers, and very frugal as you have pointed out. If you click on a bomber, the data screen will show the endurance. I always wondered if it is used in ASW/Naval Search calculations. Here you can see a single engine Ann. Sonia's are even lower. A Lilly Ib is almost 6 hours, Helen and Sally are 7 hours. Does the longer endurance make them better at detecting ships/subs (more time over the search pattern) or is it only used in range? I know the longer the search range the lower the probability of detection simply because of the exponential growth in the area needing to be searched. Basically if Ann can search out to range 6, if I reduce the range of a Helen to range 6 will it be approximately twice as good as the Ann because of the better endurance. [image]local://upfiles/44178/73DB9287E7944673BABF919D3B2EE9F2.jpg[/image] No. Alfred

Lowpe -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/22/2016 4:20:30 PM)
Succinct. To the point. Spartan. Laconic. I could go on, but why say more.[:D] Many sincere thanks.[&o]

btd64 -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/22/2016 4:25:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Revthought This is what is keeping me, 100%, from giving the Japanese side a go. Is there a primer somewhere that gives a basic breakdown of how the Japanese economy works? It would also help if there was an illustrated version of each "tech tree." [;)] There is a "Japanese Production Primer" out there. Don't remember who the author was though. I can email to you if you can find it. 34 pages. I have started to read it as I have become curious and feel I need to learn it....GP

btd64 -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/22/2016 5:11:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe The rule of thumb for bombers is supply equals load/1000. Dive bombers and Torpedo bombers use 1 supply point. Tracker tells me currently that for approximately a squadron of 30 planes with 10-20 percent rest my bomber squadrons eat the following supply (fluctuates by number of planes actually flying): Sally 57 Ann 32 Lilly Ib 26 Sonia 17 Seems to pretty darn close to the above rules. And that gentlemen and ladies is one of the reasons I am a Sonia fanboy. [:)] Look at the chart and you can see the Peggy is more expensive than the Helen for one less bomb per plane. What Pax said.[:)] [image]local://upfiles/44178/5DDC5EDE40DB4DCCA0EA9E5442FFAF6A.jpg[/image] quote: Here is the plane research map referred to by the lizard. Lowpe, Could you post a chart for each Japanese aircraft type just like the bombers chart above?....GP

Grfin Zeppelin -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/22/2016 6:10:19 PM)
Well that supply cost chart is certainly a point for the Sonia.

Lowpe -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/22/2016 8:49:13 PM)
Sonia and Lilly goodness in China... [image]local://upfiles/44178/32A27EE8F764410A9D5D95630AC90134.jpg[/image]

Lowpe -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/22/2016 8:50:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: General Patton Lowpe, Could you post a chart for each Japanese aircraft type just like the bombers chart above?....GP Sure, but it is only a snapshot of tracker.[&:]

btd64 -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/22/2016 9:09:25 PM)
That's fine. If you think it would be easier to email me the group of them, go ahead and email me. Thank you sir....GP

obvert -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/22/2016 10:28:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: General Patton That's fine. If you think it would be easier to email me the group of them, go ahead and email me. Thank you sir....GP If you have tracker you can just load up this page. It's not hard to set up and will give you all kinds of combinations you choose of airframes (or any other device) in game. Worth getting it going yourself.

Lowpe -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/23/2016 2:16:20 AM)
Hey, do you want the file for stock? Or Dababes? I can send it to you in spreadsheet file and they you can manipulate it how you like.

btd64 -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/23/2016 2:34:44 AM)
Stock and a speadsheet would be great. Thanks Lowpe. I just finished going thru the Econ primer. and spent an hour after that looking at my Econ....GP

SheperdN7 -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/24/2016 11:14:05 PM)
Warning: minor rant. The single engine light bombers are awful. Period. For Allied forces, they have a purpose as second line units and for raiding merchant shipping lanes. (All the more reason for us JFB's to assign Akisuki destroyers to convoys.) Anyways, the Japanese light bombers are brutal. When I play a game with PDU's on I don't bother to build or research them. I'll change them over to 2E bombers like the Ki-21 IIa and Ki-67. At least they put a couple holes into an airfield. The light bombers will barely scuff the asphalt (save for the Ann) In my opinion, the light bombers should be used for training and I've found that I use them en masse for that role it helps immensely in the later years. If you are playing in a PDU off game, then I recommend the Ki-51 sonia as a lot of squadrons can upgrade to it and it possesses a camera. Honestly, if you want a GREAT close air support aircraft, go with the Ki-102 Randy. The version with the 57mm gun (B version I believe) is a great weapon for tank killing if you have pilots with high strafe skill. And it packs 2 250 KG GP bombs for added affect. The downside is you'll have to wait awhile for it to become operational ( Late 43 at the earliest).

Lowpe -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/25/2016 2:58:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: General Patton Stock and a speadsheet would be great. Thanks Lowpe. I just finished going thru the Econ primer. and spent an hour after that looking at my Econ....GP Did you get it. I pm'ed it to you zipped.

btd64 -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/25/2016 3:26:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe quote: ORIGINAL: General Patton Stock and a speadsheet would be great. Thanks Lowpe. I just finished going thru the Econ primer. and spent an hour after that looking at my Econ....GP Did you get it. I pm'ed it to you zipped. Yes, got it. Plus I have Tracker running and it helps as well. And I found what you sent me. What I need to know are the top 2 to 3 1E and 2E bombers for Navy and Army and why. Fighters i'm good to go. Bombers not so much....GP

Yaab -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/25/2016 4:19:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SheperdN7 Warning: minor rant. The single engine light bombers are awful. Period. For Allied forces, they have a purpose as second line units and for raiding merchant shipping lanes. (All the more reason for us JFB's to assign Akisuki destroyers to convoys.) Anyways, the Japanese light bombers are brutal. When I play a game with PDU's on I don't bother to build or research them. I'll change them over to 2E bombers like the Ki-21 IIa and Ki-67. At least they put a couple holes into an airfield. The light bombers will barely scuff the asphalt (save for the Ann) In my opinion, the light bombers should be used for training and I've found that I use them en masse for that role it helps immensely in the later years. If you are playing in a PDU off game, then I recommend the Ki-51 sonia as a lot of squadrons can upgrade to it and it possesses a camera. Honestly, if you want a GREAT close air support aircraft, go with the Ki-102 Randy. The version with the 57mm gun (B version I believe) is a great weapon for tank killing if you have pilots with high strafe skill. And it packs 2 250 KG GP bombs for added affect. The downside is you'll have to wait awhile for it to become operational ( Late 43 at the earliest). I think Japanese 1Es are just ground support aircraft. 2Es attack ships, ports and airfields, while 1Es soften LCUs. In RL the 1Es performed gliding attacks against LCUs,which should in game terms translate into better bombing accuracy compared to 2Es. Unfortunately, gliding was disabled some time ago and 1Es are just ordinary "light" level bombers.

Lowpe -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/25/2016 6:49:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: General Patton quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe quote: ORIGINAL: General Patton Stock and a speadsheet would be great. Thanks Lowpe. I just finished going thru the Econ primer. and spent an hour after that looking at my Econ....GP Did you get it. I pm'ed it to you zipped. Yes, got it. Plus I have Tracker running and it helps as well. And I found what you sent me. What I need to know are the top 2 to 3 1E and 2E bombers for Navy and Army and why. Fighters i'm good to go. Bombers not so much....GP 2E bombers Army: Helen for normal work. Lilly IIb and IIc for dive bombing work. Some like Peggy T for torpedo naval attacks - comes late and tough to get trained pilots. 2e navy: Grace & Frances later in game. Bettys/Nells are good platforms in the early games. The longer legged ones make for nice search planes. 1E: Pretty much what is said in this thread. Ann/Mary. I like Sonia, but I am strange.[;)] Your best bet is to play a little with them all and see what you like.

btd64 -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/25/2016 7:05:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe quote: ORIGINAL: General Patton quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe quote: ORIGINAL: General Patton Stock and a speadsheet would be great. Thanks Lowpe. I just finished going thru the Econ primer. and spent an hour after that looking at my Econ....GP Did you get it. I pm'ed it to you zipped. Yes, got it. Plus I have Tracker running and it helps as well. And I found what you sent me. What I need to know are the top 2 to 3 1E and 2E bombers for Navy and Army and why. Fighters i'm good to go. Bombers not so much....GP 2E bombers Army: Helen for normal work. Lilly IIb and IIc for dive bombing work. Some like Peggy T for torpedo naval attacks - comes late and tough to get trained pilots. 2e navy: Grace & Frances later in game. Bettys/Nells are good platforms in the early games. The longer legged ones make for nice search planes. 1E: Pretty much what is said in this thread. Ann/Mary. I like Sonia, but I am strange.[;)] Your best bet is to play a little with them all and see what you like. Thanks again Lowpe....GP

rustysi -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/26/2016 10:27:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SheperdN7 Warning: minor rant. The single engine light bombers are awful. Period. For Allied forces, they have a purpose as second line units and for raiding merchant shipping lanes. (All the more reason for us JFB's to assign Akisuki destroyers to convoys.) Anyways, the Japanese light bombers are brutal. When I play a game with PDU's on I don't bother to build or research them. I'll change them over to 2E bombers like the Ki-21 IIa and Ki-67. At least they put a couple holes into an airfield. The light bombers will barely scuff the asphalt (save for the Ann) In my opinion, the light bombers should be used for training and I've found that I use them en masse for that role it helps immensely in the later years. If you are playing in a PDU off game, then I recommend the Ki-51 sonia as a lot of squadrons can upgrade to it and it possesses a camera. Honestly, if you want a GREAT close air support aircraft, go with the Ki-102 Randy. The version with the 57mm gun (B version I believe) is a great weapon for tank killing if you have pilots with high strafe skill. And it packs 2 250 KG GP bombs for added affect. The downside is you'll have to wait awhile for it to become operational ( Late 43 at the earliest). As a new player one thing you should keep in mind, if you don't already know, is that the 1E's have a use early in the war. They're very useful when operating from small forward air bases. Especially at adding disruption to enemy LCU's.

SqzMyLemon -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/26/2016 10:45:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe I am a Sonia fanboy, especially in PI & SRA & China. In my first ever PBEM/AAR against smeulders, my initial disgust at being stuck with so many Sonia bombers (PDU off) quickly turned to love. I couldn't get enough of her, her sleek lines, her little...um. I'll stop there.

rustysi -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/26/2016 11:30:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe I am a Sonia fanboy, especially in PI & SRA & China. In my first ever PBEM/AAR against smeulders, my initial disgust at being stuck with so many Sonia bombers (PDU off) quickly turned to love. I couldn't get enough of her, her sleek lines, her little...um. I'll stop there. Me thinks you may need to get out a bit more.[:D]

SheperdN7 -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/30/2016 4:05:09 AM)
quote: As a new player one thing you should keep in mind, if you don't already know, is that the 1E's have a use early in the war. They're very useful when operating from small forward air bases. Especially at adding disruption to enemy LCU's. Absolutely I see the tactical value in having 1E bombers early war but I take full advantage of having PDU's on by gradually replacing the Mary's and Ida's with 2E bombers. After taking a good long look at my AAF in my game against the AI I have realized that I do use 1E's (Ann's and 1 or 2 squadrons of Sonia's) for more than just training. To add on to Yaab's comment, they do make for pretty good CAS planes as long you have air superiority. The major point I'm just trying to make is that 2E bombers have a lot more uses than 1E's and other than CAS in China I see no other purpose for 1E bombers other than trainers.... Keep in mind I'm a total noob in this game[;)]

Yaab -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/30/2016 1:21:52 PM)
One thing to remember when choosing Jap 1Es are their cruise speeds.For example, Ida is notorious for arriving unescorted over target. I would choose an 1E that can fly together with some ablative escorts (i. Oscars) and not fly unescorted due to low cruise speeds.

Lowpe -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/30/2016 2:21:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yaab One thing to remember when choosing Jap 1Es are their cruise speeds.For example, Ida is notorious for arriving unescorted over target. I would choose an 1E that can fly together with some ablative escorts (i. Oscars) and not fly unescorted due to low cruise speeds. You pretty much only want to fly them where there is no intercept chance...no point in flying them where they will die like flies. If you are worried use LRCAP to insure some coverage.

Lowpe -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/30/2016 2:21:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe I am a Sonia fanboy, especially in PI & SRA & China. In my first ever PBEM/AAR against smeulders, my initial disgust at being stuck with so many Sonia bombers (PDU off) quickly turned to love. I couldn't get enough of her, her sleek lines, her little...um. I'll stop there. I can relate. [:D]

Dili -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (4/30/2016 2:55:41 PM)
You need one more engine for Lilly's.

geofflambert -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (5/1/2016 5:21:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: General Patton quote: ORIGINAL: Revthought This is what is keeping me, 100%, from giving the Japanese side a go. Is there a primer somewhere that gives a basic breakdown of how the Japanese economy works? It would also help if there was an illustrated version of each "tech tree." [;)] There is a "Japanese Production Primer" out there. Don't remember who the author was though. I can email to you if you can find it. 34 pages. I have started to read it as I have become curious and feel I need to learn it....GP I have a print-out of that. If you don't print it out on wood pulp, you will forget about it or just vaguely recall it and not know where to go to get it. I have one major disagreement with what is expressed in it, and there are some very minor errors in it, but if I had produced it I'd be very proud. Like some other works of note the knucklehead failed to sign it so I don't know where to go to get it. Here's page one. [image]local://upfiles/37002/A638D71A71EF45FC96B7F7067D9CD460.jpg[/image]

Trugrit -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (5/1/2016 5:41:36 PM)
Numdydar - in paragraph 3 of the page you posted. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3329605

geofflambert -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (5/1/2016 5:45:41 PM)
What kind of commie pinko are you? You can read? Arrest him!

rustysi -> RE: What single engine bomber if any should Japan build? (5/3/2016 12:37:59 AM)
quote: The major point I'm just trying to make is that 2E bombers have a lot more uses than 1E's and other than CAS in China I see no other purpose for 1E bombers other than trainers.... Keep in mind I'm a total noob in this game For me this is pretty much as how I see it. You do get a good number of 1E's to start (and I only use Ida's for training) and as long as you don't waste them you'll have them available for a long time. I just don't produce any more of them. Again that's JMHO and play style. YMMV. As I've said in the past, 1000 players, 1000 ways to play. Makes a great game greater.

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