Tournament vs War Winning Strategies? (Full Version)

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rkr1958 -> Tournament vs War Winning Strategies? (4/20/2016 12:38:55 AM)

My impression is that most strategies employed by advance (M)WiF players are designed to force a "conclusion" well before the actual war ended. For example, strategies employed at WiFCon events where there's just not enough time to play games out to Jul/Aug 1945 (i.e., 36 turns).

Also, there seems to be a boredom factor in play especially for those playing the Soviets or the United States where if you followed a historical type strategy you wouldn't really do anything for the 1st third of the game.

So I was wondering if, and how, your (M)WiF strategies might differ if you were "forced" to play the game until the conclusion of turn 36; i.e., Jul/Aug 1945?



Jagdtiger14 -> RE: Tournament vs War Winning Strategies? (4/20/2016 7:56:06 AM)

quote:

Also, there seems to be a boredom factor in play especially for those playing the Soviets or the United States where if you followed a historical type strategy you wouldn't really do anything for the 1st third of the game.


That's why you pair up US with China, and USSR with France. Perhaps adding Free France to US when its time.

I think every game includes strategies to force a conclusion well before the actual war ended...in a way that is a measuring stick. My strategy does not really differ because I might have to play the game to turn 36...however, there is a different type of game that is played when you get close to the end concerning objective locations to win the game. Most people never play to the bitter end, but I have played several games (two at WiFcon) to the end of turn 36.








Centuur -> RE: Tournament vs War Winning Strategies? (4/20/2016 12:29:20 PM)

It's not the destruction of the Allied powers which is the goal of the Axis, but to survive to the end of Jul/Aug 1945. If they achieve that, they've usually won the game...

If the Axis are very, very lucky, they might get into the position of conquering the USSR and China, which means that they have won the game. However, that's pretty unusual.

Are strategic decisions different when the Axis are not able to conquer the USSR and China? Yes, they are. At a certain point, the building strategy of the Axis switches from offensive too more defensive units where on the other end you see the Allies changing to all kind of nice offensive chrome (the specialized units like Para's, all kind of bombers, ARM, MECH and offensives). Now, if the Axis make this switch too late, they are in for a very hard time in the end game...



Jagdtiger14 -> RE: Tournament vs War Winning Strategies? (4/20/2016 5:17:26 PM)

Its also not the destruction of the Axis powers that is the goal of the Allies. The end game all boils down to how many objectives the Allies need to win. There are several that will be cherry picked that the Axis cant even do anything about, then its the easiest Axis objectives. Its very possible for Germany and Japan to survive and the Allies still win the game.

As for builds strategy...that is something that can and usually does change almost turn by turn...and major decisions are usually discussed between your partners.



rkr1958 -> RE: Tournament vs War Winning Strategies? (4/20/2016 11:51:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

... but I have played several games (two at WiFcon) to the end of turn 36.

To play two games at WiFcon to the bitter end is impressive. How long were the WiFcons and how may hours did you play a day? How many players per game?



Jagdtiger14 -> RE: Tournament vs War Winning Strategies? (4/21/2016 4:28:56 AM)

Its a 10 day event at the Radisson Lansing Michigan second week in August...last year it was August 7 to 16. Both games all of us were very experienced veterans at WiF(6 players in 2004, and 5 in 2005)...so we really churned out the impulses...also we began early in the morning and played late. A guess would be about 14 hours not including taking breaks and eating. In 2005 Andrew Rader surrendered to us after a failed Sea Lion...If we had accepted the surrender, we would have won the con...instead we persuaded Rader to continue playing and he did...it came down to the last turn and we lost. 2004 came down to the last turn as well.

However, we also had Col. Glantz give presentations...well worth the money right there alone. 2004 was about the largest "tank" battle that no one knew about (Brody '41), and 2005 was the Soviet attack into Manchuria...so one of those days was a half day.

I think it was 2004, one of my local WiF player friends and I went to Euro WiFcon and played three guys from Arhus Denmark. We took our time at the game and enjoyed the cultural exchange with our opponents with frequent visits to the local restaurant...a lot fewer hours. We ended that game mid J/A '42.



rkr1958 -> RE: Tournament vs War Winning Strategies? (4/22/2016 3:02:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Its a 10 day event at the Radisson Lansing Michigan second week in August...last year it was August 7 to 16. Both games all of us were very experienced veterans at WiF(6 players in 2004, and 5 in 2005)...so we really churned out the impulses...also we began early in the morning and played late. A guess would be about 14 hours not including taking breaks and eating. In 2005 Andrew Rader surrendered to us after a failed Sea Lion...If we had accepted the surrender, we would have won the con...instead we persuaded Rader to continue playing and he did...it came down to the last turn and we lost. 2004 came down to the last turn as well.

However, we also had Col. Glantz give presentations...well worth the money right there alone. 2004 was about the largest "tank" battle that no one knew about (Brody '41), and 2005 was the Soviet attack into Manchuria...so one of those days was a half day.

I think it was 2004, one of my local WiF player friends and I went to Euro WiFcon and played three guys from Arhus Denmark. We took our time at the game and enjoyed the cultural exchange with our opponents with frequent visits to the local restaurant...a lot fewer hours. We ended that game mid J/A '42.
Wow ... did you go last year? Have you gone every year since 2004? How many games does your group play a year?



Jagdtiger14 -> RE: Tournament vs War Winning Strategies? (4/22/2016 5:31:12 AM)

2005 was my last year, although I would like to again. Especially Euro WiFcon...I might stop by and say hi this year if I don't actually play.

We would play about 3-4 games a year, but have not recently...play tested Fatal Alliances (WiF world war one), and "simple" Factory in Flames (an improvement). Lately Napoleonic era games. I think when we return to WiF it will probably be MWiF and the cons. Hopefully MWiF will have tournaments.



Viktor_Kormel_slith -> RE: Tournament vs War Winning Strategies? (4/22/2016 12:54:55 PM)

In boardgame, we always have played to win the war, ignoring objectives, if axis survives, axis win if not allies win. But normally the game finished before becouse someone surrendered [:(]



Courtenay -> RE: Tournament vs War Winning Strategies? (4/22/2016 3:22:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Viktor_Kormel

In boardgame, we always have played to win the war, ignoring objectives, if axis survives, axis win if not allies win. But normally the game finished before becouse someone surrendered [:(]


This exactly describes my group.



Jagdtiger14 -> RE: Tournament vs War Winning Strategies? (4/23/2016 1:55:36 AM)

Everyone's gaming situation is different, so let me give you mine. The gaming location we have is in western Broward County (Florida). I travel from Miami Beach (Dade County), and we have one player who travels from Palm Beach county. The two of us spend about 1.5 to 2 hours of driving time to get there and return home. Forget gas and wear on our vehicles (including risk of accident, etc...), but more important is the time commitment while driving. The other players live in Broward some min's away. We do this almost every week (other than holiday, etc...).

So, our gaming time is very precious. I can tell you that it would be extremely onerous for any player to come to the game just to be bashed over the head in a hopeless game (min's or especially hours away). That's why playing objectives makes sense (besides that's the way its played in competitive events)...the interest to play remains until the Allies can take the objectives they need and the Axis cant take them back, or the Allies fail. This is why our games are played into 1945, and yours end prematurely. MWiF can change this aspect of gaming. Personally I prefer competitive gaming anyway and why I'm looking forward to ladder tournaments, etc...



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Tournament vs War Winning Strategies? (4/23/2016 9:09:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Everyone's gaming situation is different, so let me give you mine. The gaming location we have is in western Broward County (Florida). I travel from Miami Beach (Dade County), and we have one player who travels from Palm Beach county. The two of us spend about 1.5 to 2 hours of driving time to get there and return home. Forget gas and wear on our vehicles (including risk of accident, etc...), but more important is the time commitment while driving. The other players live in Broward some min's away. We do this almost every week (other than holiday, etc...).

So, our gaming time is very precious. I can tell you that it would be extremely onerous for any player to come to the game just to be bashed over the head in a hopeless game (min's or especially hours away). That's why playing objectives makes sense (besides that's the way its played in competitive events)...the interest to play remains until the Allies can take the objectives they need and the Axis cant take them back, or the Allies fail. This is why our games are played into 1945, and yours end prematurely. MWiF can change this aspect of gaming. Personally I prefer competitive gaming anyway and why I'm looking forward to ladder tournaments, etc...

If you would be so kind, ... What would you like to see me work on to make MWIF fully acceptable to you for tournament play?



Jagdtiger14 -> RE: Tournament vs War Winning Strategies? (4/24/2016 5:42:58 AM)

quote:

If you would be so kind, ... What would you like to see me work on to make MWIF fully acceptable to you for tournament play?



_____________________________ Steve


First, I'm sure you and Matrix (and ADG) understand the value of increasing interest in MWiF. I thought this was the direction MWiF was going when a certain individual had plans to create a MWiF fan site for just this thing. I understand he no longer is able to do this.

As for your question I'm not really sure how to answer it, and what it is you mean by it...so I'll give the following suggestions:

Reading the AAR's, I think MWiF is already in that zone where tournaments are possible. What you are doing now in fixing bugs and getting Netplay going is perfect.

I think what we need is a dedicated (fan?) web site for competitive MWiF as was originally planned. I'm not sure what kind of permission would be required (if any) from Matrix and/or ADG.

Prizes for winning the tournament(s) would be interesting (Matrix coupons, ADG game discounts, some kind of recognition graphic on the winner(s) Matrix page/avatar, etc...)

Need an individual(s) to maintain the site and be an organizer for the events.

Also, advertising could be sold to cover costs. The site would be extremely inexpensive anyway.

Other features could be added that would make it a go to site for everything WiF...including the Yahoo list...

I'm sure there are a ton of suggestions gamers can offer on this project.




tacfire -> RE: Tournament vs War Winning Strategies? (5/15/2016 12:42:04 AM)

Ii would be nice to see online videos of player tournaments so less experienced WiF players can watch the strategies that more experienced players use at during WIFcon tournaments.

It seems to me that Matrix WiF could be a perfect tool to record a match game and allow viewers to see the map in detail during later playback as opposed to a boardgame where it would be more difficult to record a match and see the map in detail.



juntoalmar -> RE: Tournament vs War Winning Strategies? (5/15/2016 12:19:19 PM)

That's a grrrrreat idea. I know there are some video channels for other computer games competition, so this could be fantastic. Quite long videos, though.



Jagdtiger14 -> RE: Tournament vs War Winning Strategies? (5/16/2016 1:39:07 AM)

Juntoalmar: Could you post links to some of those video channels? Thanks!

It probably would require the site manager to edit each video.



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