RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (Full Version)

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SqzMyLemon -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (6/30/2017 4:37:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

But a lot of times I have the turn and those Europeans are on another vacation I don't spend that much more time on the turn...just kind of let it percolate in the background.


That's true, but in this case I'm trying to plan and coordinate a rolling offensive. I'm talking a lot of targets with the end goal being landings on Mindanao. I could have used the time to tinker away a little every day. No big deal in the grand scheme of things, it'll just take me longer to complete the next few weeks of turns.



SqzMyLemon -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/5/2017 4:45:20 PM)

Just waiting on the Sept. 18/44 turn back from Erik.

A couple of good days for the Allies since I last posted.

In Burma, Erik tries to bomb Allied forces in clear terrain southwest of Meiktila and it doesn't go well for the Japanese. Heavy Japanese fighter sweeps precede the bombers and face no CAP...it turns out Allied AA is enough. Of 27 Helen bombers, 19 are reported lost to Allied FLAK. Allied troops were unaffected. I learned this lesson a long time ago. The FLAK changes in DBB makes bombing Allied forces extremely costly and there is little need to CAP my own ground forces. As long as I can adequately cover my troops with AA, Erik can try to bomb them to his heart's content.

I've been bombing Woleai periodically and the last few days I was using bombers only. I was targeting the Japanese defenders rather than the airbase. I needed to rest the bombers and decided on sending just sweeps instead. Erik chose that day to load up the airbase with fighters and supporting LRCAP from Yap. Erik used his typical low CAP settings of 5k, 7k and 9k. Considering I was heavily outnumbered in both my sweeps, the two squadrons of P-38L's did ok. Overall I lose 13 against Erik's 20. I'll take it. I lose nine pilots though even with a submarine in the target hex hex.

In the last month or so I have been winning the tactical battles and always coming out ahead in terms of fewer losses. I hope to continue to build momentum for the bigger battles to come.

In Australia, I've reached Perth and will try an assault with a lone Australian armoured rgt. against a single Japanese LCU. Australian 8th Division will arrive in a few days to help if the armour can't get it done.

I'm trying my first attempts to resupply Darwin by sea and will be curious to see Erik's reaction. Japanese air attack from Dili looks to be the most logical threat. There could be some interesting air battles over the coming weeks at Darwin. If I can unload 100k+ in the coming weeks I'll be happy.

Only three more days to complete AA upgrades after the 18th turn is run. Once my CVE's are ready I'll start to post maps on the upcoming Allied offensive plans.



SqzMyLemon -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/6/2017 4:33:05 PM)

Sept. 18/44:

The Australian armour can't get it done at Perth in one go. Despite no forts and only facing a Japanese SNLF force the armour only gets 1:2. However, the Japanese suffered losses and it's only a matter of time.

The first TF of two transports will arrive in Darwin tomorrow and begin unloading supply. There are 162 Allied fighters based at Darwin and Fenton set to provide CAP. I'll keep the first few TF small, but plan on trying a 10 ship liberty TF in a week.

The last few turns have seen me move everything that can move. A massive final reorganization of aircraft and shipping to forward areas. I'm trying to make sure no shipping is idle. Anything that can be moved...is. I have a huge backlog of shipping at Tulagi and Rabaul to get through.



SqzMyLemon -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/6/2017 9:49:19 PM)

Despite all the excitement in Erik's other game he's flipping turns regularly since he's been back. I'm glad because we'll both benefit from the upcoming action and the end to the sitzkrieg.

I've been picking up some interesting SigInt entries and it appears Luzon and Iwo-jima are being heavily reinforced. Of note I received a report of a fragment of the Wake Coastal CD gun at Manila. The main components of the unit are currently based at Hollandia. I will definitely take these reports into consideration in planning my advance beyond Mindanao.

The game is really fun for me at the moment. I've always enjoyed the logistic and planning side to the game. I just wish I was better at it tactically. Anymore one-sided Japanese victories will be catastrophic at this stage of the game.




SqzMyLemon -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/7/2017 9:16:23 PM)

Sept. 19/44:

No Japanese naval air attacks against Darwin or area most likely due to no DL on my transports. My TF actually has four transports rather than the two I previously stated. DL on the unloading transports at Darwin is 8/9 so I'm expecting heavy sweeps and a bombing attack tomorrow. My fighter fatigue is ok so I left my settings the same. I did add another squadron of British Spitfires though.

Pretty quiet turns overall, but it's time to target enemy airbases again. It will be a concentrated effort to knock out around 10 airbases. I've got 100k+ of supply at all major bomber bases to sustain operations.

Rabaul has almost reached 1 million fuel and 2 million supply. There are also large fuel and supply stockpiles at Milne Bay and Tulagi.

A second deliberate attack against Perth fails to dislodge the defenders, but odds were 1:1 and only the Japanese suffered casualties again.



SqzMyLemon -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/10/2017 7:52:43 PM)

Is it common for the upgrade days to change near completion? The reason I ask is that all my CVE's were listed as having two days (2%) left, but on the day they all should have shown 1% a large number of them now show 2% and 3% to completion.

Not the end of the world, but thought it was strange so many changed. Nothing changed at the port and there were no new ships added for upgrades or repairs.



SqzMyLemon -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/10/2017 8:06:55 PM)

I have the next turn in the inbox, but can't run it until I get home. It appears there will be a few days delay getting all my CVE's upgraded, but after waiting this long a few more days won't hurt.

Once they are all upgraded they will rendezvous at Tulagi and the amphibious assault shipping will begin loading.

First amphibious target...Noemfoor.

It appears Erik has reinforced Woleai with three additional LCU's. My small NZ Bde. may not be enough to take the atoll now. I'll have to use the navy to soften up the defence more than initially intended. I'd like Woleai to provide naval air search for an early warning of the presence of KB around the Marianas. The capture of this base will preclude the next jump forward for the Allies, which includes Peleliu, Yap and Ulithi. There is going to be some hard fighting ahead.

The air campaign to close down Japanese airbases over the next 2 weeks begins this turn. Today's targets are Taberfane and Hollandia.




witpqs -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/10/2017 9:01:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Is it common for the upgrade days to change near completion? The reason I ask is that all my CVE's were listed as having two days (2%) left, but on the day they all should have shown 1% a large number of them now show 2% and 3% to completion.

Not the end of the world, but thought it was strange so many changed. Nothing changed at the port and there were no new ships added for upgrades or repairs.

My understanding is that repairs (including upgrades) have random factors built in and the numbers day to day are just estimates.



Canoerebel -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/10/2017 10:59:14 PM)

The fickle gremlins of the forum underworld led me to post an update to my AAR....here! Right here! In Sqz's AAR. I don't know how it happened. I apologize for mucking up the exquisite flow of Joseph's AAR.



MakeeLearn -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/10/2017 11:04:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

9/19/44

See map for details.




Is this a Infomercial for "The Good The Bad & The Indifferent"?



BBfanboy -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/11/2017 5:10:30 AM)

They are just estimates, but a revision upward is unusual. I have seen this happen when a unit with naval support moves out of the port hex, or when an AR that was previously free to add its repair points to the pool gets assigned a specific vessel to repair.



SqzMyLemon -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/11/2017 3:21:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I apologize for mucking up the exquisite flow of Joseph's AAR.


What flow, let alone exquisite? [:D]



SqzMyLemon -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/11/2017 3:23:23 PM)

Thanks for the info on the upgrade delays. Seems like I should be good to go with all CVE's in a couple more days. Some will be ready for redeployment next turn on the 22nd so they will sail immediately for Tulagi.



SqzMyLemon -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/11/2017 3:50:27 PM)

Sept. 21/44:

Finally! I get air interdictions against Japanese transports at Hollandia. I've been trying all game to get at Erik's air transporting troops out of bases and come up empty every time. I deployed two squadrons of fighters to Vanimo set to LRCAP at 1 hex range and 20-31k and they shot down around ten enemy transports. I can't explain why I haven't been getting intercepts before using LRCAP, but I am thrilled to have finally gotten something.

Bombing missions against Taberfane don't fly, but B-24J's hit Hollandia. Damage is light and the FLAK is intense. I lose three bombers to AA.

The other big news of the day is the liberation of Perth. The Australian armour gets it done after all and sends the Japanese packing. It was great to see Erik's VP total dip down 1250 points to below 53k.

The turn for Sept. 22nd is away and what a clickfest! I've ordered major bombing operations against six Japanese airbases. I've been slowly redeploying bombers forward and today I decided to unleash them. The two toughest targets are Sorong and Noemfoor. Sorong shows no enemy fighters, but a large number of guns. Noemfoor has 88 fighters and 25 bombers listed, but only 55 guns. Other targets include Saumlaki, Taberfane and Aru. I've ordered a large number of sweeps and escort missions and it will be interesting to see the order of missions. Every B-29 squadron on the map has been committed, as well as two bomber groups of B-24J's and another 10 squadrons of 2E's. I've suffered horrible losses before when trying to launch these large raids, but this time I'm not facing a 300+ Japanese CAP. Unless Erik has just added fighters to these bases, the only CAP I anticipate facing is at Noemfoor. If everything turns south for some reason, I am completely prepared to take heavy losses this time around. This is going to be "Der Adler Tag" American style, weather and coordination permitting.



SqzMyLemon -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/12/2017 4:59:03 PM)

Sept. 22/44:

A good day in the air for the Allies. All missions fly and as a bonus no enemy CAP is encountered.

Five airbases were targeted:

Aru +80% damage
Noemfoor 63% damage
Sorong 15% damage
Saumlaki +80% damage
Taberfane +80% damage

FLAK and severe weather over Sorong limited the damage substantially.

The best news was at Noemfoor. I'm starting to better understand how Erik deploys his forces. Primarily at his forward bases he's deployed mostly fighters. When he deploys bombers at a base the fighters based there are almost always the escort. So the 88 fighters at Noemfoor spotted the day before were escorts and not CAP. When my bombers arrived over Noemfoor there was no CAP. The first wave of 55 B-29's hammered the airbase and successive waves of 6 bomber fragments added to the carnage. On the day almost 40+ Japanese planes were destroyed on the ground with 2/3rds of them being fighters. I lose seven aircraft in total including 4 B-29's to FLAK and OPs. My altitude setting were way off and my sweeps against Noemfoor occurred after the bombers. I didn't factor in the speed of the B-29's. In this case I was extremely lucky to not run into a strong CAP. I'm due some luck though. [8D]

We also traded unopposed sweeps. Erik swept Vanimo to catch my CAP that had shot down his transports the day before, and I swept Hollandia in case he had moved up some fighters. My CAP at Vanimo had withdrawn to be replaced with fighters set to sweep Noemfoor.

In other news, Navy Mitchells continue to target Kwajalein and are starting to destroy squads and devices. Supply seems to have now run out and it's only a matter of time until the defenders are crushed from the air.

I'm learning some valuable lessons lately. Being able to anticipate Erik's reaction to events is opening up some nice tactical opportunities for the future.

Erik isn't really defending all of these bases, so it's not like I can take a lot of credit for the success of some of the raids. However, there is a reason why I'm targeting the bases I am. The two upcoming amphibious operations will land at Noemfoor and Aru Island. I'd like to limit the number of bases Erik can operate from to interdict my naval forces. By limiting the amount of LBA I face, there's a good chance I'll just face KB's aircraft if it is committed. That's what I want. I would like to draw out KB and limit the support it can get from Japanese LBA. There's also the possibility that if Erik can't support KB with LBA, he wouldn't commit it at all, which would be good for some of my operations. I'm looking forward to the upcoming battles, but as always, I just need to avoid another disaster.




SqzMyLemon -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/12/2017 5:10:07 PM)

I forgot to mention. Most of my CVE's are now finished their AA upgrades and can now redeploy to Tulagi. I'll begin loading up troops for the first series of amphibious landings in a few days. It's finally on!



SqzMyLemon -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/18/2017 3:51:23 AM)

The Sept. 26/44 turn is away to Erik.

The first batch of CVE's is two days out from Tulagi. The amphibious forces for Noemfoor and Woleai will load up at Rabaul. I've decided that Tulagi is too far away to load up further amphibious task forces to keep up with the planned pace of operations. All ships capable of transporting troops are loading up at Tulagi and redeploying forces to Rabaul and area.

More air units are deploying forward. Forward bases on New Guinea are being expanded as rapidly as possible to move the bombers and fighters forward.

The Allied Fleet will deploy to Rabaul in a few days. All carriers have their air complements and pilots filled out. A final check of leaders will be conducted for every unit. Almost 75 submarines will deploy to a staging area prior to taking up positions to support the fleet.

This has been a long time coming and I am throwing the kitchen sink at Erik. I won't stop offensive operations for the next three months. In that time I hope to crush the Japanese Navy, cripple the enemy air force, cause LCU losses and take as much territory back as I can.

It's going to be crazy and hopefully a lot of fun for us both.



SqzMyLemon -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/18/2017 4:51:57 PM)

Sept. 25/44:

I send in two separate BB bombardment task forces to hit Hollandia. I found when I sent one bombardment task force against Hollandia the ships ended up dueling against the CD guns. I caught a comment in another thread by Cap Mandrake about the first bombardment task force almost always targeting the CD guns, but a second one will hit the airbase. He was right. My second bombardment task force hit the airbase and defenders as hoped. Two DDs and a DMS are heavily damaged from mine and gun hits, but none appear to be in danger of sinking and should make port.

I continue to target airbases in the area and my process of rotating bomber squadrons is starting to pay off which allows for daily air attacks to keep the bases suppressed. I'm avoiding the hard targets of Biak and Manokwari, but I figure I can deal with them using the navy when the time comes and then I can use the air force to keep them suppressed after the initial landings at Noemfoor.

In Burma my forces are moving forward to begin the ground campaign. I've wasted so much time here and in hindsight I couldn't see what I should have been doing other than just base expansion. To that end, the Chinese forces are also redeploying to take the fight into China via Lashio. I hope I can supply the horde.

Another carrier has joined the main fleet at Tulagi, the CV Ticonderoga.

No response from the Japanese in some time. I get a lot of reports of activity behind the main fronts. I will have to fight against some formidable Japanese positions initially to establish an LOC, but I hope my planned move to strike at Mindanao will catch Erik up a bit. I want to land as many troops as possible on the targets and use the navy and air force to crush the Japanese resistance over a few weeks.



witpqs -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/18/2017 7:04:01 PM)

Makes sense. I'm guessing that the duel with the first TF reduces morale and/or increases disruption and/or increases fatigue in CD units, resulting in less chance of engaging the second TF.



SqzMyLemon -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/19/2017 2:08:20 AM)

Can anyone on the Allied side of things suggest a good number of carriers to deploy per task force in late 1944? Is it best to use just CV's in a task force or mix in a few CVL's for the added protection from the fleet carriers? I have no clue on the Allied coordination penalties during this stage of the war either.

My initial thoughts are 4 CV's and 1 CVL per task force.

Any suggestions or recommendations are most welcome.



Lokasenna -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/19/2017 3:29:23 AM)

I allocated mine based on what I was doing. I was mostly operating in one place, so whatever CVs/CVLs were nearby were usually put into 2 TFs as they just ended up being "too many", by feel, for 1 TF.

I don't think I'd put more than 700 a/c into 1 TF. Other than that, I'd do whatever I pleased. I tend to prefer concentrating my CVs into as few TFs as possible. The only risk in such cases is contact from surface forces.



BBfanboy -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/19/2017 6:24:24 AM)

I would tend to put my CVLs with the CVs to help protect the CVLs, not the other way around. CVLs are not very robust and it helps to have juicier targets for the enemy bombers to go after! The Essex CVs can take quite a bit of punishment and survive.



SqzMyLemon -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/19/2017 3:21:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I allocated mine based on what I was doing. I was mostly operating in one place, so whatever CVs/CVLs were nearby were usually put into 2 TFs as they just ended up being "too many", by feel, for 1 TF.

I don't think I'd put more than 700 a/c into 1 TF. Other than that, I'd do whatever I pleased. I tend to prefer concentrating my CVs into as few TFs as possible. The only risk in such cases is contact from surface forces.


Roughly what size TF's are you running? I've generally been using smaller carrier task forces consisting of 12-15 ships. At this stage of the war is it best to run 25 ship task forces considering the greater threat from large numbers of LBA available? I know that only 15 ships in total are counted for AA value, unless something has changed.

I like the idea of fewer task forces. Perhaps there will be less chance of uncoordination.



Lokasenna -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/19/2017 3:36:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I allocated mine based on what I was doing. I was mostly operating in one place, so whatever CVs/CVLs were nearby were usually put into 2 TFs as they just ended up being "too many", by feel, for 1 TF.

I don't think I'd put more than 700 a/c into 1 TF. Other than that, I'd do whatever I pleased. I tend to prefer concentrating my CVs into as few TFs as possible. The only risk in such cases is contact from surface forces.


Roughly what size TF's are you running? I've generally been using smaller carrier task forces consisting of 12-15 ships. At this stage of the war is it best to run 25 ship task forces considering the greater threat from large numbers of LBA available? I know that only 15 ships in total are counted for AA value, unless something has changed.

I like the idea of fewer task forces. Perhaps there will be less chance of uncoordination.


It's not that they aren't counted after 15 ships, it's that only 15 ships contribute fully. After that, the returns diminish.

I'd say somewhere around 20-22 ships? I usually go for somewhere around 70-80 ASW and then some dedicated AA ships (BBs with good AA suites if they can be spared, otherwise Clevelands and CLAAs). Really, all I do is take a standard 1942/1943 CV TF and add a couple of escorts and just keep stacking on the carriers. So 1-2 BBs, 2-5 CA/CL/CLAA, 8-10 DD, and then 5-6 CV plus 2-5 CVL...



SqzMyLemon -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/19/2017 10:47:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

It's not that they aren't counted after 15 ships, it's that only 15 ships contribute fully. After that, the returns diminish.

I'd say somewhere around 20-22 ships? I usually go for somewhere around 70-80 ASW and then some dedicated AA ships (BBs with good AA suites if they can be spared, otherwise Clevelands and CLAAs). Really, all I do is take a standard 1942/1943 CV TF and add a couple of escorts and just keep stacking on the carriers. So 1-2 BBs, 2-5 CA/CL/CLAA, 8-10 DD, and then 5-6 CV plus 2-5 CVL...


That's what I was aiming for too. I'm comfortable with my general allocation of surface ships to a carrier task force, but figuring out just how many CV's to add was my problem. You've given me a few ideas to play around with.

Thanks for the clarification on the AA. That will make a difference in how I set up my task forces as well.



SqzMyLemon -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/19/2017 10:54:21 PM)

No turn from Erik today so it's a model night. [8D]

Nothing much to report from the last turn other than some Allied bombing. Most of the turn is spent sorting through massed shipping at Rabaul and Tulagi. My Aru Island, Noemfoor and Woleai forces should be able to begin loading. I'm worried about the Woleai invasion tipping my hand for operations against Ulithi, Yap and Peleliu, but then I remind myself that I want Erik to know I'm coming. I want to fight KB...I think. [:D]



Bif1961 -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (7/20/2017 7:35:08 PM)

I usually go with 3 CVs and 1 CVL which works out to be about 300 AC per TF along with 1 BB, 2 CAs, 1 CL, 1 CLAA and at least 6-8 DDs. That ives me 15-17 ships, which is very managable and gives them good protection from all threats as I frequently have nothing but fighters on the CVL set to 100 CAP. I have seen many jam 8 or more CVs together with very little escort and it can turn into a huge mistake platform.



SqzMyLemon -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (8/4/2017 1:34:29 AM)

Quick question.

Does having a ground unit with radar in a non-base hex have any influence on CAP or LRCAP assigned to cover the hex? Would the radar vector in any fighters above the altitude of any sweeps?

On another note, I am about to complete the Oct. 1/44 turn. The long awaited Allied offensive is about to begin. The first objectives are the suppressing of enemy airbases at Biak and Manokwari and the capture of Woleai. Once these are accomplished there will be an amphibious landing at Noemfoor.



BBfanboy -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (8/4/2017 4:40:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Quick question.

Does having a ground unit with radar in a non-base hex have any influence on CAP or LRCAP assigned to cover the hex? Would the radar vector in any fighters above the altitude of any sweeps?

On another note, I am about to complete the Oct. 1/44 turn. The long awaited Allied offensive is about to begin. The first objectives are the suppressing of enemy airbases at Biak and Manokwari and the capture of Woleai. Once these are accomplished there will be an amphibious landing at Noemfoor.

Radar increases the chance of detection and raises the D/L of incoming raids, but I don't think the game models vectoring fighters to the target. I think that is sort of automatic from land bases and built into the intercept model for carrier aircraft defending their carrier.
I have no idea if a radar attached to an AA unit would affect interception differently from a radar in a BF.



Lokasenna -> RE: A pick up game and it's not Lowpe! Sqz (A) vs. obvert (J) (8/4/2017 3:09:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Quick question.

Does having a ground unit with radar in a non-base hex have any influence on CAP or LRCAP assigned to cover the hex? Would the radar vector in any fighters above the altitude of any sweeps?

On another note, I am about to complete the Oct. 1/44 turn. The long awaited Allied offensive is about to begin. The first objectives are the suppressing of enemy airbases at Biak and Manokwari and the capture of Woleai. Once these are accomplished there will be an amphibious landing at Noemfoor.

Radar increases the chance of detection and raises the D/L of incoming raids, but I don't think the game models vectoring fighters to the target. I think that is sort of automatic from land bases and built into the intercept model for carrier aircraft defending their carrier.
I have no idea if a radar attached to an AA unit would affect interception differently from a radar in a BF.


Radar helps detect altitude of enemy raids, as well as warning time.

Earlier warning = more fighters able to make it to the fight in time.

More fighters able to fight = higher chance of planes being vectored onto bombers due to overwhelming the escorting fighters.

I've also never seen the message "X planes vectored onto enemy bombers" without radar, but the number of times I'm defending somewhere that doesn't have radar is very, very small.



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