Big Fish in the Baltic, 1971 (SwAF) Release (Full Version)

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Skjold -> Big Fish in the Baltic, 1971 (SwAF) Release (5/9/2016 3:23:43 PM)

Big Fish in the Baltic, 1971 (SwAF vs. USSR/WP)

[image]http://i.imgur.com/MjOqrnG.jpg[/image]

This is a mission that i've been working on for a while but was only made possible with the new CWDB thanks to .Sirius and the changes to the A32 Lansen. It features a large scale air and naval fight in the early 1970s between USSR/WP and Sweden. Both sides have extensivly researched and accurate OOB's. It also uses the first anti-ship missile made in the western world, that was taken into service as early as 1959 in the Swedish Airforce and the Draken fighter which served as the primary air superiority fighter in Sweden for a long time.

Feedback im looking for
Performance? It is by far the largest scenario i ever made
Difficulty? Too easy? Too hard?
Realism and general balance, can i do anything to make the mission better in your eyes?
Spell checking, english is not my first language.
Anything else, im keen for any feedback good or bad as long as it is constructive.

Description
In recent days tensions have soared between Sweden and the Soviet Union and its allies due to an incident a few days ago where a naval skirmish took place in international waters resulting in the sinking of several ships on both sides. We have very strong intelligence to suggest that the East German navy is trying to launch a suprise naval attack on Gotland from the south to avoid most of our coastal forts and going straight to the biggest port on the island, Visby. Our navy is not leaving their ports due to an overwhelming presence of missile boats in the Southern Baltic.

Features
  • Massed air combat with a mixture of rear aspect heatseeker only airframes and early SARH platforms on both sides.
  • Anti-surface operations with a mixture of dumb bombs and anti-ship missiles.
  • Quick Turnaround is heavily featured due to it being a part of Swedish doctrine.
  • Extensivly researched and accurate OOB on both sides.

    Steam Workshop Link: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=681426014
    Download Link: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4090292

    Hope you enjoy it! Skjold



    • magi -> RE: Big Fish in the Baltic, 1971 (SwAF) Beta 1 (5/9/2016 11:57:31 PM)

    ok.... IL try it....



    magi -> RE: Big Fish in the Baltic, 1971 (SwAF) Beta 1 (5/10/2016 12:00:03 AM)

    could you attach the file to your post please....



    Skjold -> RE: Big Fish in the Baltic, 1971 (SwAF) Beta 1 (5/10/2016 5:53:33 AM)


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: magi

    could you attach the file to your post please....


    I waas sure that i did, its fixed now. Weird.



    magi -> RE: Big Fish in the Baltic, 1971 (SwAF) Beta 1 (5/10/2016 9:12:10 PM)

    thanks....



    AlexGGGG -> RE: Big Fish in the Baltic, 1971 (SwAF) Beta 1 (5/10/2016 10:37:41 PM)

    Performance no problem,
    Realism do not know,
    Difficulty too easy. I had air superiority by 19 hours to go, and all known enemy ships (including all amphibs) sunk by 14 hours to go without even taking off all Lansen strike aircraft.

    At 14 hours to go score 1900 Triumph and notable losses were

    We lost
    ===========================================================
    34x J 35D Draken
    18x J 35F2 Draken
    1x A 32A Lansen
    3x F-104G Starfighter <--- allied

    ===========================================================

    Enemy combined losses were
    ===========================================================
    57x MiG-21PFM Fishbed F
    45x Su-15MF Flagon D
    15x MiG-21PFM Fishbed F [MiG-21SPS/SPS-K]
    15x MiG-21M Fishbed J
    15x MiG-21PF Fishbed D
    34x MiG-21PFM Fishbed F [MiG-21PFMA/PFMN]
    for a total of like 180 aircraft

    2x EM Kotlin SAM [Pr.56K Spokoinyy]
    4x KSS 40 Riga Mod
    10x Labo Class
    2x Robbe
    4x 421 Hel [Pr.205 Osa I]
    8x 421 Hel [Pr.205 Osa I]
    1x 275 Warszawa [Pr.56AE Kotlin SAM]

    So I killed about three aircraft for each one lost.



    magi -> RE: Big Fish in the Baltic, 1971 (SwAF) Beta 1 (5/10/2016 10:39:13 PM)

    well.... just starting set up some patrol missions.. etc....

    got this message....
    4:06:32 AM - Event: 'Danish Help' was triggered but did NOT fire (failed probability check)....

    red doesnt have any radar...?

    i dont understand why all the draken d models only have two missiles... it means they have to sortie twice as much to shoot their all bullets...




    Excroat3 -> RE: Big Fish in the Baltic, 1971 (SwAF) Beta 1 (5/11/2016 1:40:43 AM)

    Same comments as Alex, lost 68 aircraft (66 fighters, 2 attack) and killed 210 WP fighters for a 3:1 ratio. The bombs were pretty much useless, and the ASMs did most of the heavy lifting when it came to ship busting. Very fun, just set up the 3 patrol zones, assigned the fighters, and watched the missiles fly. Only lost air superiority once, and it was taken back within 2 hours. Good job on making this one!



    Skjold -> RE: Big Fish in the Baltic, 1971 (SwAF) Beta 1 (5/11/2016 8:13:31 AM)

    @AlexGGGG

    Thanks for your feedback, as i've explained previously these are true to life OOB's so i'm not entirly sure what i'd change to make it more difficult, perhaps i'll limit the amount of reloads available (i might have been a bit generous on the bases reload capability)

    @magi
    That just means that the dice rolled on wether or not the danish would help or not, it failed its probability check so the answer is no this playthrough. Red does have radar, could you elaborate? radar guided missiles? Only the Su-15's have. The Soviets/WP has accurate airframes stationed in the vicinity. I could give the D drakens 4x sidewinders, will punish their overall performance due to weight and limit the reloads airfields will have.

    @Excroat3
    The bombs can actually be very effective if u manually tell the AI to come in low but yes ASM are vastly superior to dumb bombs. Thanks.



    magi -> RE: Big Fish in the Baltic, 1971 (SwAF) Beta 1 (5/11/2016 8:16:17 AM)

    it crashed on me... dont know why... didnt have auto save on... i was doing good... its just kind of a slug fest....

    i chose all emissions on.... i dont see that red has any radar sites at all... so blue has a decided advantage.....



    Skjold -> RE: Big Fish in the Baltic, 1971 (SwAF) Beta 1 (5/11/2016 8:32:09 AM)


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: magi

    it crashed on me... dont know why... didnt have auto save on... i was doing good... its just kind of a slug fest....

    i chose all emissions on.... i dont see that red has any radar sites at all... so blue has a decided advantage.....


    Sorry to hear that, yes it is a slug fest, which it probably would have been trying to achieve air superiority over the baltic with two major airforces, Sweden had something like the 4th or 5th biggest airforce in the world in this era, this OOB is only partial.

    USSR/WP has a Bar Lock A in east germany, NUR-31 in Poland, Tall King A in Kalinigrad and P-70 in Estonia not to mention alot of SAM radar sites, they have excellent radar coverage of the Baltic and Sweden.



    Skjold -> RE: Big Fish in the Baltic, 1971 (SwAF) Beta 1 (5/11/2016 4:11:47 PM)

    I have decided to make these changes based on your inputs and my own experiences:

    - Increase difficulty by
    1. Halfing the number of stockpiled weapons, probably way more realistic levels now.
    2. Setting several squadrons on ready time (3-6 hours depending on loadout) to simulate that not all squadrons would be combat ready and pilots have been called up etc.
    3. Setting Red to get reinforcement faster then they already did.
    4. Added ECM flights to USSR.
    5. Added a trigger that might trigger an USSR bombing force.

    I have personally playtested this version and it is this substainally harder and more enjoyable, but not impossible. I would love some feedback, the new download is in the first post.

    Edit: Please note that there is several variables in this mission to add some replayability, such as Danish intervention and SR-71 recon support, those things are far from guaranteed.



    AlexGGGG -> RE: Big Fish in the Baltic, 1971 (SwAF) Beta 1 (5/11/2016 4:54:02 PM)

    Excroat3,

    I dropped bombs from 1000 ft and it was fairly accurate and deadly.

    Skjold,

    I'm not sure there is a need to make it more difficult. If these are accurate OOB, which I believe they are, then so be it.

    Consider maybe
    adding Blue ships to make them targets for Hels, so that I'm time-limited in destroying Hels. This way I will have to trade either take off Lansens in contested air or lose ships.
    adding some Soviet/WP anti-land strike against air bases

    But, there was one previous scenario where losses were 25:1 or something, and it was like super easy, and I checked historical results and was like, well, uh, sometimes you just win and that's it. That is, if Soviets choose to attack with such and such forces, Sweden wins. Next time, different scenario, Soviets choose to attack with Tu-160s, PAK-FAs, whatever, and NATO forces are tied up somewhere else, Sweden loses. It is just not worth it to keep every and all scenarios balanced.



    Skjold -> RE: Big Fish in the Baltic, 1971 (SwAF) Beta 1 (5/11/2016 5:23:05 PM)


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: AlexGGGG

    Excroat3,

    I dropped bombs from 1000 ft and it was fairly accurate and deadly.

    Skjold,

    I'm not sure there is a need to make it more difficult. If these are accurate OOB, which I believe they are, then so be it.

    Consider maybe
    adding Blue ships to make them targets for Hels, so that I'm time-limited in destroying Hels. This way I will have to trade either take off Lansens in contested air or lose ships.
    adding some Soviet/WP anti-land strike against air bases

    But, there was one previous scenario where losses were 25:1 or something, and it was like super easy, and I checked historical results and was like, well, uh, sometimes you just win and that's it. That is, if Soviets choose to attack with such and such forces, Sweden wins. Next time, different scenario, Soviets choose to attack with Tu-160s, PAK-FAs, whatever, and NATO forces are tied up somewhere else, Sweden loses. It is just not worth it to keep every and all scenarios balanced.



    I agree fully with your points but i increased the difficulty without sacrificing the OOB, i just added another bomber squadron that was stationed in the era and i decreased the stockpiles to (probably) more realistic levels. The ship idea is quite neat, i'll think about it and i did add an anti-land strike against Gotland (in playtests, they pretty much wiped out the defenses of the island).

    Regarding Sweden winning, Sweden during this era spared no expense on military and it shows. Nowadays it would be a completly different story.



    AlexGGGG -> RE: Big Fish in the Baltic, 1971 (SwAF) Beta 1 (5/11/2016 11:59:28 PM)

    Second version is more difficult. I still got a Triumph, but with considerably more effort.

    By the way, is Bloodhound SAM (launcher unit I mean) supposed to be movable or stationary? Because I actually moved them around I saw fit.



    magi -> RE: Big Fish in the Baltic, 1971 (SwAF) Beta 1 (5/12/2016 8:33:28 AM)

    i also think red should try to strike blue air bases.... as i believe that would be probable in this type of event....



    Skjold -> RE: Big Fish in the Baltic, 1971 (SwAF) Beta 1 (5/13/2016 8:12:15 AM)

    Thanks for you guys input.

    @AlexGGG Bloodhound are meant to be stationary, very stationary in fact. I'll look into and see if theres anything at all i can do to make them non moveable.
    [image]http://hjak.se/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/DSC_7514.jpg[/image]
    @magi, yes i agree there is already one strike on the island of gotland itself but i might incorporate another one and/or tweak the one on gotland to focus more on the airfield itself.



    magi -> RE: Big Fish in the Baltic, 1971 (SwAF) Beta 1 (5/13/2016 8:19:29 PM)

    Okidokie......



    Skjold -> RE: Big Fish in the Baltic, 1971 (SwAF) Beta 1 (5/29/2016 6:33:33 PM)

    Release Changelog
  • Added another two Kotlin class destroyers as escorts.
  • Moved USSR Jamming mission to be behind friendly SAM net.
  • Greatly increased probability of Soviet strike on Gotland.

    I have decided not to add any bombing strikes on airbases for a number of reasons.
    1. They in this era do not have the capability to provide proper escort other then with Su-15's to mainland Sweden. I think a runway cratering strike would be deemed too high risk by Soviet planners, if you disagree please feel free to give your 2 cents just guesses really.
    2. They would want to capture Gotland air base in working condition or as close to that as humanly possible as a staging ground for all manners of things and to be able to fly in reinforcements and supplies.

    Thanks for testing the mission!



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