RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (Full Version)

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Girshwin -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (6/27/2016 2:39:00 PM)

Bad news for STAVKA coming next turn (6) in the South. Major props to my opponent for soldiering on after a tough early start. I think there is time to even out, and with us just starting with PBEM games, either of us could still make a huge mistake (relative to each other's skill levels, I am sure we would both be crushed by an expert) and not realize it until several turns later. It could also be that with mild winter and no 2:1 = 1:1 the house rules are stacked against STAVKA.



Girshwin -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (6/28/2016 4:22:33 AM)

Turn 6: A grind, an advance, and a breakthrough

Not much action in the north, the Soviets begin to grind through the massed ranks of Soviets. I don't have a lot of infantry here- I chose to send most of my infantry toward Moscow. Is this a good strategy or will it bite me later?

In the center, the tanks break through a weak line and spread out. I'm not sure if this is an effective formation, but I like it because it looks like giant jaws coming to eat Moscow. Thankfully, the railhead is getting close, having gotten an advantage from running through the Baltic Rail Zone as long as it could. Versus the AI I spread my infantry all over the front, in this game I am trying to concentrate the infantry to follow the spearhead instead of attacking all along the line. However, recon shows a much stronger second dug in line near Moscow...

The south is where the real action is this turn. Last turn, 2 panzer corps rested and 1 panzer corp moved south from Kiev to near Cherkassy. My rail line runs through Ukraine so I figured the farther south I keep the panzers, the more gas they recieve. It looks like the bulk of the Soviet defenses are still around Kiev, including many tank divisions as can be seen in the picture. I choose Hex 82, 97 for a breakthrough point, because it can be potentially attacked from 3 sides and doesn't seem especially strong. Stacked infantry and air support put in hard work and the first tanks are able to cross the river. I form a three hex wide breakthrough. Thankfully, after the breakthrough is completed I have a full panzer corp to work with, and I advance toward the Desna river. There are only a few Soviet units behind the main line to clear away, and the elite Das Reich and L.A.H. SS Motorized Division have enough MP to force units near Kiev to cross several ZOCs or the major river to be able to escape. They are all yellow, so I assume the Soviet units won't get many supplies next turn. I am trying to learn how to do pockets by watching other AARS, and I notice that the expert players leave a buffer of converted hexes, so that I what I did near the north of the pocket. My tanks are now near the edge of their supply line but it seems a small price to pay for so many units.

If readers have any advice or notes about what we could do better or things that look funky, I would appreciate it, as I am trying to figure out both the German and Soviet strategies.



[image]local://upfiles/54392/C272D9D1AFFD40538E4E4DE3C85B70F4.jpg[/image]



RKhan -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (6/28/2016 7:44:46 AM)

A very impressive performance for a first time Axis player. It is hard to see the Soviet side recovering from this second large pocket. Also, the CV of the Soviet stacks at Leningrad is not high enough to slow you down much.

To remove white space in Paint use "crop."



rainman2015 -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (6/28/2016 3:27:14 PM)

Aren't your advanced forces, notably those east/southeast of Smolensk and those now encircling Kiev (and even the ones in the Dnepr bend in the south) hopelessly at the very end or past their supply line max, especially now the panzers exploiting towards Moscow and east of Kiev?

And, how did you both attack across the Dnepr in the south AND exploit that far in one turn? You must have done a HQBU and had full MPs and had infantry doing the attacks, so that the panzers didn't use any MPs attacking, or MPs in moving across the Dnepr into an enemy ZOC (which zaps a huge number of MPs).

And of course, Leningrad is a dead duck, just a matter of when.

Randy
:)



Girshwin -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (6/28/2016 3:49:38 PM)

Rainman, I wasn't expecting to be able to make it that far. I was originally planning just to establish a beachhead, but found out after the initial attacks that I still had panzers remaining.

I think several factors contributed to the breakthrough- the FBD from Rumania has been headed directly to Cherkassy, meaning that the railhead wasn't that far away. Also, several of my panzer divisions had been resting near cities/had withdrawn last turn to be closer to the railhead. It's not shown in the picture, but the Soviet forces in the breakthrough area were significantly weaker than the forces near Kiev along the river, and were not stacked together. Also, fortuitously, this area which was relatively weakly defended also was right where I had concentrated the bulk of the panzers.

One Panzer div arrived near Cherkassy on Turn 3, so the area was converted early and panzers saved gas by only advancing through friendly territory if they could (I tried to copy this from Michael's AAR.) Several panzer divs were close to 50 MP if I recall. I'm not quite sure, but I think 2 panzers crossed the river and attacked the remaining areas. After these first couple panzers the others were free to advance. I also bombed the breakthrough area as much as I could. Finally, when I cross rivers I try to have a bunch of pioneers, and I have tried to attach 2-3 SUs to panzers and mot divisions when I can to make sure they get the bonuses.

As to the center, I have been HQBUing heavily and I have multiple FBDs. If I recall, Turn 7 will show that STAVKA retreated to the main Moscow line, but the tanks do not have many MPs.

That's my best explanation. Someone with more experience may be able to say more about which of my reasons were significant or not.

Attached: Turn 7's Moscow wall after German moves and recon. The Moscow line looks tough! I'm sure a real general would shake his head at the German mishmash of divisions.

[image]local://upfiles/54392/B8DB93527F2948378BD1FAB96A0105D5.jpg[/image]



Girshwin -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (6/29/2016 12:22:08 AM)

Turn 7: Rest and Regroup

In the north, solid progress is made through the line. I shifted some forces from near Novgorod to the east breach. Both OKH and STAVKA seem to have made strategic decisions not to heavily commit to the Leningrad theater.

In the center, I pull back a panzer corp for an HQBU, aside from a few tanks which convert hexes for the infantry. I have a lot of divisions here.

In the south I close the pocket and consolidate forces, pulling as many tanks back as I think I can afford, aside from the few converting hexes. The tactic of pulling most panzers back to regroup after a pocket while advancing with a few to speed next turn's advance seems to be successful so far. I also note that while my heavy concentration of forces on the west side of the Dnepr near Kiev means units are slow going to reach the new front line, it also most likely contributed to my opponent keeping many of his best troops in place on turn 5.

I don't know what Soviet capability for counterattack is (especially since we are playing with no 2v1 = 1v1, which I am sure heavily benefits my advance, as the light winter rule will soon) but my opponent in general seems to prefer retreat to successive defensive lines instead of retreating with some forces while hugging my tanks with sacrificial units, or leaving token forces behind in dense terrain to slow the Germans down. It would take a more experienced player than me to say if it would be wise to leave more units in a forward defense or to counterattack, but I also seem to have an advantage in that I can concentrate the bulk of my forces, while a few Romanian divisions trundle slowly toward Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporozhye, where they are facing a large number of soviet units digging in. My plan so far has been to break the line in one spot in the center and south and force a retreat, while having minimal forces along the rest of the front. It may be that attacking the Romanians would lead to another German pocket, but I have been living in fear that my opponent attacks and isolates my weak areas of advance.

Regardless, my opponent is fighting with house rules stacked against him and I commend his perseverance despite that.

[image]local://upfiles/54392/E70E1191CAB3453BABD4A324A654B9EA.jpg[/image]



Girshwin -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (7/4/2016 7:38:08 PM)

Turn 8:

AGN makes a good advance toward Leningrad, pocketing three weak unit; 2 more were in the pocket but I accidentally routed them out.

Very little fighting in AGC, the Soviets have pulled back to their main Moscow/Kursk/Kharkov line and the Germans advance. The Panzers have a lot of gas but decide to save it for a turn when the infantry can provide the initial punch. One fully gassed Panzer division heads south to convert a wide swath of territory for the infantry in the center.

In AGS, infantry finish off the large pocket near Kiev. The Soviets fully abandon the Dnepr in the south and the infantry also advance.

The tanks in the south are on the edge of their supply line. I chose to only use 1 FBD in the south and it's coming back to bite me. Next turn, the plan is a big push either to the north or south of Moscow. I don't expect to be able to create a pocket but figure if I can break through the first main line of forts next turn the next turns will be easier.

[image]local://upfiles/54392/D445EA139DC84CACBF8AE20FA7953A6C.jpg[/image]



Girshwin -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (7/4/2016 8:22:54 PM)

Turn 9:

In AGN, only one row of hexes is taken, but 8 areas are assaulted, 7 successfully. Slow going but Leningrad should be cut off in a few turns.

In AGC, a heavy push toward Moscow. I thought a lot before making the decision to grind straight forward. South looked like better long term prospects (I'm looking to surround Moscow, not do a frontal assault) but in the short term would have involved having to push through a heavily defended river line with tanks. The CV in the north looked slightly higher than the CV in the center after recon. Time will tell whether this was the right decision.

My tactics were:

1.) Heavy bombing. I lost a lot of fighters but bombed many hexes twice. I should probably have moved my airbases, especially the fighters, higher, but was worried sending them too far from the rail line would render them ineffective.
2.) I tried to use deliberate assaults with stacks of infantry against the level 2 forts, leaving units in level 1 or open terrain for panzers whenever possible.
3.) I'm not good at it yet, but when I could I tried to sequences attacks so that the opponent did not have retreat options for some units, causing them to rout. This is a tactic I will have to work at.

Little action south of Moscow. My infantry pull up to Kharkov. I am saving up southern gas for a big push later. That said, STAVKAs long retreat seems to make a potential future pocket very difficult.

[image]local://upfiles/54392/60C79F7B87E440DD8484D6A936B8190E.jpg[/image]



Girshwin -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (7/4/2016 8:46:14 PM)

T10:

AGN: Fantastic movement near Leningrad. My objective this turn was the key Shlisselburg hex which separates Leningrad from the other Soviet forces. My twin objectives next turn are to take the hex to the east of Shlisselburg, which will allow me to make a deliberate assault on the backdoor with two units, and to drive up the coast a bit- my understanding is that taking the two Lake Ladoga ports on the west side of the Volkhov will reduce supplies to the the port of Osinovets, even though there is one more Ladoga port farther north. I believe that the level 2 fort on the backdoor is lower than usual, although I am not sure- in any case, I think I can take it. It only reads 18 strength.

The Moscow offensive also went well, but I got carried away and I think made a big mistake. I used most of my panzer movement to move through a series of enemy ZOCs and cut one of the Moscow rail lines. I take a number of spaces adjacent to Moscow, but realize too late that the farthest panzer hex is yellow and far from supply. They won't be getting much gas, and I didn't save any JU88s to resupply. So, a lot of ground taken but not many prospects next turn. I fail a large attack on the cavalry stack directly southeast of Moscow.

In the south, I attack isolated D and Z town garrisons, with Z town holding on. I focus my efforts on Kharkov, spending all of my panzer MPS to break through Soviet lines and cross both the Donets and Oskol rivers. However, these panzers are a bit of a paper tiger, as they have blown their gas reserves and cut the line in a place where the Soviets have ample room for retreat.

I'm starting to really regret not having 2 FBDs in the south, so one is being railed from the Veliki Luki area all the way back around Romania to join up with the railhead approaching D-town. I'm not really sure what it was even doing in Veliki Luki in the first place. Next game I will have a long term plan for the rail to make sure each turn counts.


[image]local://upfiles/54392/D9A35D3FEEC64255B4A44BE1A7EA6D86.jpg[/image]



Girshwin -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (7/4/2016 9:06:44 PM)

Turn 11:

In AGN, I meet my goal of taking the hex west of Schlisselburg, and get close to the ports with the motorized divisions. I am considering trying to cross the Volkov and taking that last eastern Ladoga port, even though I know the terrain is swampy and requires crossing a major river.

Near Moscow, the Soviets have made a partial retreat. I cross the Moskva river in two places, and then attack the other river-adjacent hexes, to save the MP/high CV which I would have to face if I attacked directly across the river. Unfortunately, the LVII gets orders to compound it's mistake, and I end the turn with 3! divisions far from the railhead, with almost no MPs. The panzers do not have enough MPS to attack acoss the Klyazma river north of Moscow.

In the south, I close up on Kursk and move closer to the Stalino line. My opponent doesn't like to counterattack, so I am not worried here. I decide not to try and cross into the Crimea. My hope is to leave it weak and prompt my opponent overextending during winter as I have seen some other players do in AARs. My Rumanian airforce is sitting in Krivoi Rog. There has got to be a better use for them, but since I am not attacking with the Rumanians and am worried about trucks required if I move them ahead of the railhead, I leave them there. Do more experience players have guidance on how/where to place this air force?



[image]local://upfiles/54392/C1B7EA8EDA154CB1B2E947847D33C74B.jpg[/image]



Girshwin -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (7/4/2016 9:39:03 PM)

Turn 12:

In AGN, a deliberate attack with heavy bombing and six infantry units with many pioneers and nebelwerfers attached succeeds in an attack into the Leningrad backdoor. Several panzer divisions exploit, and take the Osinovets port, although they are not able to take it. Leningrad is finished.
I decide that it would be too much effort to try and cross the Volkhov, and instead send my motorized divs south to hopefully go around Lake Ilmen next turn.

Slow grinding near Moscow, and my mistake with the LVII panzers compounds itself, with them only able to bat away adjacent Soviets which keep returning. On the other hand, a heavy attack on West Moscow is a success! The 9th (green) army is well stocked on SUs designed to help take forts and urban areas. The panzers from the 2nd Panzer group move closer to the rail line as they wait to refuel.

In the infantry takes Kursk and advances to the Stalino line. There are no rail lines in the center of the map so I imagine I am using a lot of trucks, and the infantry inear Kursk and Kharkov don't have a lot of MPs each turn.

[image]local://upfiles/54392/9AA8339AD90F4878B9F11DE6F241FEFF.jpg[/image]



Girshwin -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (7/4/2016 9:39:50 PM)

Turn 13:

In the north, each hex aside from Leningrad proper falls, and even though the Finns can't attack this turn I send them through to help garrison the city and man the Volkhov river line. I want to move the 18th Army south to help set up defensive positions for the winter. I know that Finnish morale drops when I keep them below the line, but figure that I can still get good use from the 18th army aside from standing guard duty.

I also make a small push around Lake Ilmen- my hope is to force the Soviets to withdraw from the Volkhov area or be pocketed. This should give more hexes to retreat from during winter if need be. The line from the Valdai Hills to Moscow is mostly lined by regiments, one hex back from the Soviet stacks and building forts. I figured it would take a lot of effort to break through the Soviet lines at this point, and it's not that close to the rail line yet, and plus it makes for a nice clean straight line. Moscow is technically isolated, but I didn't surround the units and my tank is vulnerable. A 4 or 5 hex assault on N Moscow fails miserably, but maybe it will soften up the Soviets for a future turn.

The XXXXVII and XXXIV panzer corps have enough MPs that I decide to mount an attack across the Oka just below Kaluga, where it is a minor river. This allows units to clear the major river Oka hexes without attacking across the river. I meant to pocket some of the units west of Tula, but by the time I am almost done moving the panzer divisions I realize I am out of MP. Still, this provides a nice breakthrough to take advantage of next turn.

In the south, infantry advance toward hat looks to be a heavily defended Voronezh. This city looks like a tough cookie to take before the first winter.

In the south, the Soviets make a surprise retreat to four hexes east of Stalino, leaving garrisons behind in the city. I decide to use my panzers to attack the line on the north and fight into Voroshilovgrad, and then across the Aidar and Derkul rivers to speed the infantry next turn. My goal is to hopefully go around the Donets bend. The L.A.H. SS division walks into Boguchar because, well, it seems like fun, and at least I can almost say I crossed the Don in 1941. I know mud is coming soon and I'm worried I've overextended.

Also: dopey Hitler just remembered that security divisions can be broken down. A whole bunch of Romanians and infantry regiments will be joining the front as they are no longer needed for garrison duty.



[image]local://upfiles/54392/F3ABB9BFB1124D49A775941AB89BF55A.jpg[/image]



Girshwin -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (7/5/2016 12:29:47 AM)

OOB Turn 13:



[image]local://upfiles/54392/41DAC78AC0804313A7AB624D3D614520.jpg[/image]



Girshwin -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (7/5/2016 12:32:03 AM)

Combat Losses Turn 13:

Air Losses: Axis 1148, Soviet 7095. One item I'm concered about is that I've lost 706 level bombers, most in air combat. I've been mostly using the AI to attack and it seems that for reasons I haven't figured out yet bombers often go on missions without fighter support, even when fighters are in range. I will have to go manual from now on to save planes.

[image]local://upfiles/54392/7F0C6B29EF054308A7B8E7EA93B33E7C.jpg[/image]



Aditia -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (7/5/2016 9:29:38 AM)

There is an issue with letting the AI select airgroups for a mission, as more often than not, fighters are not allocated to the mission.

If you go to the relevant air mission mode, then select a staging airbase with fighters, and Shift+RightClick your target, you can assign airgroups yourself; which is what I have been doing to good effect and my bomber losses have dropped off significantly. The only issue with this is that it is very easy to burn the mileage on your airgroups very quickly if you over commit to each mission, but that is just practice.



EwaldvonKleist -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (7/5/2016 10:09:29 PM)

Wow, very good campaign so far, and there is also some time after the mud season. Will be hard for your opponent to take enough back during blizzard to have a comfortable 1942.



RKhan -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (7/6/2016 7:44:56 AM)

Well done Gershwin. I can see why colberki is interested in the auto victory conditions.



Girshwin -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (7/11/2016 3:37:03 AM)

Thank you to everyone who is following along/posting comments. And thanks especially to my opponent, colberki, who is potentially about to give the Germans a run for their money this winter!

I am trying to figure out the partisan system (partisans weren't much of a threat in my AI game.) This is the last turn before mud. I currently have 5 panzer/mot divisions isolated, and due to the rail break the other panzers are low on gas. This turn I am breaking them out and regrouping, while making small pockets in the north.

The Soviets made 5 cuts in a small area and cut off two FBD lines. I notice that I can't use the forward rail, but instead need to walk the FBDs back manually- this will take 2-3 turns before they reach the area. I also note that there are several cuts which have not been reached yet. How many turns will this take to repair, and is there anything I can do to speed it up? I am also wondering if putting airbases/other weak units along the rail lines at critical points is a good idea.

[image]local://upfiles/54392/B63791570DA54F599F98D2AD18E59E71.jpg[/image]



colberki -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (7/11/2016 4:20:54 AM)

There is a God of War after all. 16 turns of clear weather despite Random Weather setting. Soviets got no break from a proficient and ruthless Axis all summer and have only Mild Winter to try save the game. This partisan attack is indeed a god send!



RKhan -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (7/11/2016 7:55:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: colberki

There is a God of War after all. 16 turns of clear weather despite Random Weather setting. Soviets got no break from a proficient and ruthless Axis all summer and have only Mild Winter to try save the game. This partisan attack is indeed a god send!


The probability of 1941 mud has been greatly reduced in recent patches. I begin to wonder if random weather is a fair trade for mild winter.

R



colberki -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (9/26/2016 5:16:29 PM)

The game is now at T25 awaiting the Axis move in the first blizzards turn. With mild blizzards, the Soviets will have only 4-6 turns to hit back at the Axis. Some silly STAVKA officer persuaded Stalin to this game parameter! [:(]

Voronezh and Rostov survived Barbarossa so there will be no auto victory for the Axis.

Soviet losses are 3.0M, and the Red Army has 5.2M men including almost 30 Guard Infantry and Cavalry divisions. Soviet manpower is 2300 HVY/ARM a little below the 200/300 VEH are almost at 140 - a bonus for 1943. All equipment factories survived.



Michael T -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (9/26/2016 10:15:02 PM)

I have been saying it for a while, it's suicide for a Soviet to agree to mild winter.



Hagar -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (9/27/2016 6:42:43 AM)

On a side-note: whatever you do, don't use paint... [:-]

Joking aside, Paint.Net is freeware, and much, much better, for one. There are other options as well, obviously.

Love the AAR though!



821Bobo -> RE: Girshwin (GER) vs. colberki (SOV) [Two Beginners, no colberki allowed] (9/27/2016 9:12:30 AM)

quote:

I have been saying it for a while, it's suicide for a Soviet to agree to mild winter.


No, suicide is combo mild winter and no attack bonus.



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