RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ

RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (Full Version)

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PaxMondo -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/9/2016 7:06:27 AM)
With any luck, you're going to get some fuel when you take Bombay ... how much? Unknown, but you should get some ...

obvert -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/9/2016 9:16:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: njp72 Apr 42- Dawn of the critical battle of the game has arrived [:)] 5 IJA inf divs are now besieging Bombay and are just waiting for additional reinforcements before they commence their assault. 6th Aussie, 18th British and quite a few of their Indian friends, are attempting a major breakout from North. Blocking them are 2 IJA divs and a couple of inf regts, KB flying ground support missions and daily bombardment runs with a mixture of heavy and light naval units. This is a dangerous battle and more than just a breakout. If the Allies gain the ascendancy and capture the position, the 2 IJA divisions would be cut off and their life expectancy short. It will be fascinating to see whether Jeff cuts his losses here or goes all in. What I found playing the Allies is that in 42 the Indian divisions have such poor experience they're not worth much. You should be fine in Bombay, but depending on forts could still need a few weeks to do this. So, can your defensive position hold? Is there any chance you can bombard them? What are your fort levels? I think you should be fine if you can get some forts built and you have at least a 1:2 ratio in AV. Some kind of disruption to his troops before an attack would really help you out.

njp72 -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/11/2016 12:53:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo With any luck, you're going to get some fuel when you take Bombay ... how much? Unknown, but you should get some ... Not sure, I did manage to grab a nice little haul at Ceylon but he has had plenty of time to evac Bombay. Fingers crossed.[:)]

njp72 -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/11/2016 12:59:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: njp72 Apr 42- Dawn of the critical battle of the game has arrived [:)] 5 IJA inf divs are now besieging Bombay and are just waiting for additional reinforcements before they commence their assault. 6th Aussie, 18th British and quite a few of their Indian friends, are attempting a major breakout from North. Blocking them are 2 IJA divs and a couple of inf regts, KB flying ground support missions and daily bombardment runs with a mixture of heavy and light naval units. This is a dangerous battle and more than just a breakout. If the Allies gain the ascendancy and capture the position, the 2 IJA divisions would be cut off and their life expectancy short. It will be fascinating to see whether Jeff cuts his losses here or goes all in. What I found playing the Allies is that in 42 the Indian divisions have such poor experience they're not worth much. You should be fine in Bombay, but depending on forts could still need a few weeks to do this. So, can your defensive position hold? Is there any chance you can bombard them? What are your fort levels? I think you should be fine if you can get some forts built and you have at least a 1:2 ratio in AV. Some kind of disruption to his troops before an attack would really help you out. No deliberate attack from the Allies yet. The BB bombardments and KB ground strikes badly disrupted the Aussie 6th and thus prevented any form of attack. Other Indian formations are massing on the position but help is also arriving shortly including the veteran 38th Inf Div. I have become more confident of holding the position and even moved KB back into its normal naval strike role. First deliberate attack went in at Bombay terrible odds 1:4 but the forts were reduced and the Allies suffered a similar amount of destroyed/ disabled squads. His 2 Armoured brigades in particualr took a fairly heavy pounding. I am growing more confident this position can be taken relatively quickly which opens up all sorts of possibilities. In summary, as you have pointed out, the Indian formations are just not up to scratch in early 42 [:D]

PaxMondo -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/11/2016 1:58:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: njp72 In summary, as you have pointed out, the Indian formations are just not up to scratch in early 42 [:D] no, they are not. quick VP harvesting is what they are if you are quick enough ...

obvert -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/13/2016 11:43:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: njp72 quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: njp72 Apr 42- Dawn of the critical battle of the game has arrived [:)] 5 IJA inf divs are now besieging Bombay and are just waiting for additional reinforcements before they commence their assault. 6th Aussie, 18th British and quite a few of their Indian friends, are attempting a major breakout from North. Blocking them are 2 IJA divs and a couple of inf regts, KB flying ground support missions and daily bombardment runs with a mixture of heavy and light naval units. This is a dangerous battle and more than just a breakout. If the Allies gain the ascendancy and capture the position, the 2 IJA divisions would be cut off and their life expectancy short. It will be fascinating to see whether Jeff cuts his losses here or goes all in. What I found playing the Allies is that in 42 the Indian divisions have such poor experience they're not worth much. You should be fine in Bombay, but depending on forts could still need a few weeks to do this. So, can your defensive position hold? Is there any chance you can bombard them? What are your fort levels? I think you should be fine if you can get some forts built and you have at least a 1:2 ratio in AV. Some kind of disruption to his troops before an attack would really help you out. No deliberate attack from the Allies yet. The BB bombardments and KB ground strikes badly disrupted the Aussie 6th and thus prevented any form of attack. Other Indian formations are massing on the position but help is also arriving shortly including the veteran 38th Inf Div. I have become more confident of holding the position and even moved KB back into its normal naval strike role. Can you determine what the AV balance will be for the forces once your 38th Div arrives? Also, what are your fort levels there, and are they close to going up?

njp72 -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/14/2016 7:36:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: njp72 quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: njp72 Apr 42- Dawn of the critical battle of the game has arrived [:)] 5 IJA inf divs are now besieging Bombay and are just waiting for additional reinforcements before they commence their assault. 6th Aussie, 18th British and quite a few of their Indian friends, are attempting a major breakout from North. Blocking them are 2 IJA divs and a couple of inf regts, KB flying ground support missions and daily bombardment runs with a mixture of heavy and light naval units. This is a dangerous battle and more than just a breakout. If the Allies gain the ascendancy and capture the position, the 2 IJA divisions would be cut off and their life expectancy short. It will be fascinating to see whether Jeff cuts his losses here or goes all in. What I found playing the Allies is that in 42 the Indian divisions have such poor experience they're not worth much. You should be fine in Bombay, but depending on forts could still need a few weeks to do this. So, can your defensive position hold? Is there any chance you can bombard them? What are your fort levels? I think you should be fine if you can get some forts built and you have at least a 1:2 ratio in AV. Some kind of disruption to his troops before an attack would really help you out. No deliberate attack from the Allies yet. The BB bombardments and KB ground strikes badly disrupted the Aussie 6th and thus prevented any form of attack. Other Indian formations are massing on the position but help is also arriving shortly including the veteran 38th Inf Div. I have become more confident of holding the position and even moved KB back into its normal naval strike role. Can you determine what the AV balance will be for the forces once your 38th Div arrives? Also, what are your fort levels there, and are they close to going up? Yep, I will post some reports now. Feeling more confident by the day as I suspect the Allies will be forced into a hasty retreat soon.[:D]

njp72 -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/14/2016 7:43:01 AM)
Critical Battles India April 42 Bombay- forts have been reduced and his 2 Armoured brigades have been smashed up pretty hard. Some heavy ighting still to come in the next 2 weeks but it will definitely fall. Just resting at the moment to recover some of the disabled squads. Surat- feeling a lot better about Surat. The relief forces including the veteran 38th Div are rapidly closing in. Jeff has deployed light armoured forces to block the path but they have been easily swept away. In the next couples of days he will have a hard decision to make with the deployment of the 6th Aussie and 18th Brit divisions. The Indian brigades and divisions have once again proved completely inadequate in any form of offensive action. Fort levels at Surat are 3 and slowly rising. [image]local://upfiles/30175/39758D4868754646AFDB65552C3C5547.gif[/image]

njp72 -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/14/2016 7:46:29 AM)
Force dispositions- Battle of Surat Ground combat at Surat (39,20) Allied Bombardment attack Attacking force 3168 troops, 6 guns, 44 vehicles, Assault Value = 1118 Defending force 34821 troops, 298 guns, 102 vehicles, Assault Value = 919 Allied ground losses: 55 casualties reported Squads: 2 destroyed, 5 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Assaulting units: 18th British Division 6th Australian/B Division 6/18th Royal Garwal Battalion 50th Tank Brigade 44th Indian Brigade 6th Australian/A Division 46th Indian Brigade 6th Australian/C Division Defending units: Imperial Guards Division 21st Ind.Mixed Brigade 52nd Division Yokosuka Assault SNLF 91st Nav Gd /3 5th Air Division 7th JAAF Base Force

njp72 -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/14/2016 7:47:55 AM)
Battle of Bombay- fort levels now 2 Ground combat at Bombay (36,24) Japanese Bombardment attack Attacking force 1236 troops, 71 guns, 139 vehicles, Assault Value = 2007 Defending force 37966 troops, 342 guns, 557 vehicles, Assault Value = 642 Japanese ground losses: Vehicles lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled) Allied ground losses: 18 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled) Vehicles lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled) Assaulting units: 148th Infantry Regiment 4th Division 53rd Division 21st Division 54th Division 6th Guards Division 112th Infantry Regiment 33rd Division 14th Tank Regiment 5th Guards Cav Regiment 14th Army 1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment 2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion Defending units: 7th Indian Division 19th Indian Division 254th Armoured Brigade 255th Armoured Brigade Bombay Fortress 20th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment Southern Command Cochin Base Force 23rd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment AHQ India 1st Indian Coastal Artillery Regiment 1st Indian Light AA Regiment 3rd Hyderabad Base Force 1st Bengal Construction Battalion 225 RAF Base Force 1st South India Base Force 24th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment 1st Bombay Construction Battalion 1st West Coast Base Force 221 RAF Base Force

PaxMondo -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/14/2016 2:55:53 PM)
I don't bombard ,,, just raises the IND forces exp fast ...

obvert -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/14/2016 10:58:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: njp72 Force dispositions- Battle of Surat Ground combat at Surat (39,20) Allied Bombardment attack Attacking force 3168 troops, 6 guns, 44 vehicles, Assault Value = 1118 Defending force 34821 troops, 298 guns, 102 vehicles, Assault Value = 919 Allied ground losses: 55 casualties reported Squads: 2 destroyed, 5 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Assaulting units: 18th British Division 6th Australian/B Division 6/18th Royal Garwal Battalion 50th Tank Brigade 44th Indian Brigade 6th Australian/A Division 46th Indian Brigade 6th Australian/C Division Defending units: Imperial Guards Division 21st Ind.Mixed Brigade 52nd Division Yokosuka Assault SNLF 91st Nav Gd /3 5th Air Division 7th JAAF Base Force You're fine. No worries here even without reinforcements. If he's taking losses on a bombardment to none for you, he's most likely in no position to threaten the base yet.

njp72 -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/15/2016 3:44:24 AM)
Battle of Surat- the Allies make their move before the 38th breaks through. Jeff brought in the British 70th into the battle which commenced at Karachi thus negating my naval blockade. Surat is hit daily by light bombardments from a IJN CL taskforce which doesn't appear to be causing too much damage but perhaps causing a bit of disruption. The battle below. [image]local://upfiles/30175/942BF875B4FE4E68A16434800F153B26.gif[/image]

njp72 -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/15/2016 3:47:45 AM)
And the result.......... Ground combat at Surat (39,20) Allied Deliberate attack Attacking force 49492 troops, 627 guns, 728 vehicles, Assault Value = 1640 Defending force 40756 troops, 351 guns, 103 vehicles, Assault Value = 1126 Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 2 Allied adjusted assault: 1037 Japanese adjusted defense: 854 Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 2) Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 2 Combat modifiers Defender: preparation(-), experience(-) Attacker: Japanese ground losses: 1989 casualties reported Squads: 2 destroyed, 39 disabled Non Combat: 10 destroyed, 7 disabled Engineers: 54 destroyed, 1 disabled Guns lost 16 (2 destroyed, 14 disabled) Units destroyed 1 Allied ground losses: 3173 casualties reported Squads: 18 destroyed, 227 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 30 disabled Engineers: 2 destroyed, 23 disabled Assaulting units: 6th Australian Division 18th British Division 6/18th Royal Garwal Battalion 44th Indian Brigade 7th Armoured Brigade 50th Tank Brigade 46th Indian Brigade 70th British Division Defending units: 5th Engr Rgt /3 Imperial Guards Division 16th Guards Regiment 21st Ind.Mixed Brigade 52nd Division Yokosuka Assault SNLF 91st Nav Gd /3 5th Air Division 7th JAAF Base Force - I can live with that despite my engineers being wiped out. 38th arrives in 2 more days. [:)]

njp72 -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/15/2016 3:49:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo I don't bombard ,,, just raises the IND forces exp fast ... Yep makes good sense. I occasionally bombard to assess the recovery of some of his troops before assaulting again.

njp72 -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/15/2016 3:57:25 AM)
Break through in China The critical hex has now been captured. The whole Chinese line can be flanked and turned. After some stoic resistance, the Chinese are now headed for the hurt locker. [image]local://upfiles/30175/5F111D340625491D9EFD436A48FEDDF4.gif[/image]

PaxMondo -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/15/2016 4:46:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: njp72 quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo I don't bombard ,,, just raises the IND forces exp fast ... Yep makes good sense. I occasionally bombard to assess the recovery of some of his troops before assaulting again. I only do it if I don't have good recon and need to know better what I am facing ... I try to make sure I have ample recon units around any "action".

njp72 -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/22/2016 10:14:11 PM)
Update April 42. Major battles now raging in India which are critical for both sides. Largely due to luck, the Empire has emerged victorious in a series of vicious battles around Surat which has seen the best Allied formations in India savaged. Over the course of the last week, the Aussie 6th, British 18th and 70th, 3 Armd brigades and numerous Indian formations broke through an encirclement but at a heavy cost. With this damage inflicted on his best formations, I now believe Bombay's fate is sealed. [image]local://upfiles/30175/11507FA449F14F2396CD69E738CBBF09.gif[/image]

njp72 -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/22/2016 10:16:05 PM)
One of the major battles below: Ground combat at Surat (39,20) Japanese Deliberate attack Attacking force 47072 troops, 418 guns, 178 vehicles, Assault Value = 1290 Defending force 26902 troops, 459 guns, 519 vehicles, Assault Value = 651 Japanese adjusted assault: 846 Allied adjusted defense: 192 Japanese assault odds: 4 to 1 Combat modifiers Defender: leaders(+), disruption(-), preparation(-), experience(-) supply(-) Attacker: Japanese ground losses: 1119 casualties reported Squads: 4 destroyed, 93 disabled Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 12 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled Allied ground losses: 3751 casualties reported Squads: 236 destroyed, 22 disabled Non Combat: 346 destroyed, 70 disabled Engineers: 12 destroyed, 8 disabled Guns lost 52 (37 destroyed, 15 disabled) Vehicles lost 158 (112 destroyed, 46 disabled) Units retreated 4 Defeated Allied Units Retreating! Assaulting units: 52nd Division 16th Guards Regiment 21st Ind.Mixed Brigade Yokosuka Assault SNLF Yokosuka 4th SNLF Imperial Guards Division 42nd Infantry Regiment 11th Infantry Regiment 5th Recon Regiment 1st Tank Regiment 56th Infantry Regiment 91st Nav Gd /3 5th Air Division 7th JAAF Base Force Defending units: 3rd Carabiniers Regiment 6th Australian Division 7th Armoured Brigade 70th British Division

njp72 -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/22/2016 10:17:57 PM)
China- break through achieved into the plains. Now beginning to manoeuvre to turn the Allies flank and release more IJA formations. [image]local://upfiles/30175/1926B49540C6486FBF37ABBCEA2EC7E7.gif[/image]

njp72 -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/22/2016 10:21:12 PM)
Allied counterattack With the major IJN units committed to the blockade of Karachi, Jeff has found other places to hit back. Logically he has commenced a fairly big offensive in the North to secure his positions and start to cause trouble. Thus far with limited reserves I haven't reacted too much but will wait and see how far he pushes. [image]local://upfiles/30175/07322ED6D22245F2ADFAC124FA6EF307.gif[/image]

njp72 -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/22/2016 10:24:24 PM)
Score board Looking okay here with Singapore and the PIs still to be wrapped up. Should be able to get to 3 :1 in the next couple of months but after that............. On the positive side Indian and Commonwealth ground forces have really taken a hammering and I hope it will be over 12 months before they recover. Negative- Not many Allied ships (especially decent ones), are being sunk or even engaged. [image]local://upfiles/30175/005CBBF2BAE8491FADE4B18DED7C5D0D.gif[/image]

PaxMondo -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/23/2016 3:23:05 PM)
So, almost May 42. Thoughts: you haven't seen US ID's in India. At this point he should have at least 4 bought out, where are they? 4 of them can cause some mischief and I would want to know where they are. Very surprised not to have seen them in India ... most allied players will rise to your gambit and move them there. As you note, you have trashed his brit and aussie units and with their replacement rates, they won't be a factor for a year or even two. Of course he has also likely bought out some air groups ... 4E's and fighters are generally the priorities ... and where are those buggers?

Crackaces -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (10/24/2016 12:53:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo So, almost May 42. Thoughts: you haven't seen US ID's in India. At this point he should have at least 4 bought out, where are they? 4 of them can cause some mischief and I would want to know where they are. Very surprised not to have seen them in India ... most allied players will rise to your gambit and move them there. As you note, you have trashed his brit and aussie units and with their replacement rates, they won't be a factor for a year or even two. Of course he has also likely bought out some air groups ... 4E's and fighters are generally the priorities ... and where are those buggers? njp72 and I started a game which I could not finish .. but this is exactly what I did .. sneak in 3 American Divisions This in a scenario #1 situation ... certainly the Indian invasion complexly wrecks the Indian and British replacement pools and ability to supply India inernally but as you just say 4 American divisions can engage and tie down the IJ forces while in 1944 the weak spots exploited ...

njp72 -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (11/6/2016 2:47:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo So, almost May 42. Thoughts: you haven't seen US ID's in India. At this point he should have at least 4 bought out, where are they? 4 of them can cause some mischief and I would want to know where they are. Very surprised not to have seen them in India ... most allied players will rise to your gambit and move them there. As you note, you have trashed his brit and aussie units and with their replacement rates, they won't be a factor for a year or even two. Of course he has also likely bought out some air groups ... 4E's and fighters are generally the priorities ... and where are those buggers? I suspect the US divisions are massing in OZ and getting ready to have a crack at the DEI. Jeff is a very aggressive Allied player.

njp72 -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (11/6/2016 2:49:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Crackaces quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo So, almost May 42. Thoughts: you haven't seen US ID's in India. At this point he should have at least 4 bought out, where are they? 4 of them can cause some mischief and I would want to know where they are. Very surprised not to have seen them in India ... most allied players will rise to your gambit and move them there. As you note, you have trashed his brit and aussie units and with their replacement rates, they won't be a factor for a year or even two. Of course he has also likely bought out some air groups ... 4E's and fighters are generally the priorities ... and where are those buggers? njp72 and I started a game which I could not finish .. but this is exactly what I did .. sneak in 3 American Divisions This in a scenario #1 situation ... certainly the Indian invasion complexly wrecks the Indian and British replacement pools and ability to supply India inernally but as you just say 4 American divisions can engage and tie down the IJ forces while in 1944 the weak spots exploited ... Yep that was a good game [:)] Jeff has a plan and strategy. He hasn't wanted to take me on in India so I think it will be around Oz.

njp72 -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (11/6/2016 2:52:51 AM)
May 42- update Terribly overdue but work and family have been flat out. It is a very interesting game at the moment and as proven Jeff is a great opponent. Both sides seem content to avoid each other and pursue their own objectives. I have been focusing on India and the Allies in the northern pacific. Soon this will change and the fighting will really start to hot up in the second half of 42. Scoreboard wise, very few ships of either side are being sunk. Really very few ships of either side are even being seen let alone engaged. Air losses are also quite minimal for both sides. The one good accomplishment from the Empire's perspective has been the trashing of Indian and Brit troops in India. [image]local://upfiles/30175/3A9E8B85EE934580932A0B273CA49FE8.gif[/image]

njp72 -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (11/6/2016 2:57:25 AM)
India- as far as I am concerned this campaign is now largely over. A few decent pockets of Allied troops still need to be exterminated but effective resistance has now ceased below the LOD. The Allies still have plenty of troops around Karachi, though the formations have been battered and the quality is questionable. Not willing to push for the whole of India with Singapore still not taken. Bombay by the way took close to 9 x IJA divisions and I daresay if the Aussie 6th and the Brt 18th didn't break out and I stayed, I doubt if I would have ever of taken it ! Incredibly tough nut to crack. [image]local://upfiles/30175/AE551ADC59964CF890B5EA632267694F.gif[/image]

njp72 -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (11/6/2016 2:59:53 AM)
Singers- massing troops here for the next assault. Will go at it with at least 6 veteran Divs after I bring some over from India. The priority target at the moment. [image]local://upfiles/30175/5BD8232A3B93452B8BC9C3DE9402D528.gif[/image]

njp72 -> RE: Hokushin-ron/Northern Road NJP72 vs TiemanJ (11/6/2016 3:01:44 AM)
China- finally broken through into the plains but supply is a big issue. It is an interesting contest with a lot of manoeuvre by both sides rather than assaulting strong points. In another month I should have him by the throat. [image]local://upfiles/30175/63B2BE94821B4AED9FB956E8BF10068E.gif[/image]

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