RE: Manpower bug? (Full Version)

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Stelteck -> RE: Manpower bug? (10/2/2016 7:22:54 PM)

I agree with you it looks not historical at all. Maybe some tweaks can be done about casuaties in attack, things like that.

But we also have to consider the fact that now, all german play with mild winter to avoid consequences of first russian winter, and usually do none of the historical mistake the german did historically in 1941 and 1942.

So it could explain in part why german situation looks so good.

The same apply to soviet too, it is really rare than in game looses reach historical looses of 4 millions the first year, and if it happens, the soviet side is considered as doomed. Although IRL the soviet were not doomed at all and won despite these levels of casualties.






chaos45 -> RE: Manpower bug? (10/2/2016 8:03:07 PM)

The reason the soviets are doomed if they take historical losses is because the Germans dont take historical losses....and as well the Soviets dont get historical replacement rates lol.

The numbers in the game at this point are all just roughly rigged to give a good game---which isnt bad IMO....however it does look like the several recent patches which mainly put in helps to the Axis have went to far and the game is becoming unbalanced because of it.



Michael T -> RE: Manpower bug? (10/2/2016 9:20:52 PM)

Hence my comment about all units being 100% TOE. I agree with Chaos here. Losses for the Germans is too low, and to a degree the Russians as well. But I believe a fix is coming.



Peltonx -> RE: Manpower bug? (10/2/2016 11:17:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

The problem is you end up with almost 5M total Germans to be in the field in late 1943.....sounds like either the combat system is being much to lenient on the Axis for combat losses or somewhere the system is glitched and giving the Germans far to many men.

An you can see by the game this is coming from the Germans have been fighting hard since the start and are past Stalingrad- this is from a player vs player game that is in the warroom section I'm pretty sure.

Again seems pretty un-believable to me and means somewhere something has gone wrong either in combat results/attrition for axis being much to low now or they are getting far to many replacements.


Your all wrong.

PM to morveal your mail box is full.

Choas understands.

There is no "exploit" or anything wrong.

Just better understanding of our game and then testing it out WitW and WitE.

Basicly look at your AAR and my last few.

Basicly a complete understanding of how things work

manpower/logistics/airpower how and when units are up graded ect.



Peltonx -> RE: Manpower bug? (10/2/2016 11:29:52 PM)

The issue is I simply fight allot less then everyone else.

You can increase the losses all you want it will have zero effect on me NONE zip zero.

morveal you have increased losses the last few patchs and I have more men then before while if you look at other AAR's

They have fewer troops look at your AAR.

Your increased losses tweaks have worked on everyone else, but not me.

Why?

I fight less now then I did before, but cause the same amount of loses to Russia.

I have thanks to other people like Choas/MT/Sapper/TDV/time spent playing WitW ect

have a complete understanding of the total game not just one area.

Increase losses all you want it will have no effect on my OOB because of my tactics and complete understanding of the game.

I don't need spread sheets or know game code to see how things work.

Which is why I have stated WitE/WitW/2.0 will all play the same for me as they all fall into 2by3 general theory of how things "work".

Nerf away if you must, but the game is WAD.









Peltonx -> RE: Manpower bug? (10/2/2016 11:31:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

The reason the soviets are doomed if they take historical losses is because the Germans dont take historical losses....and as well the Soviets dont get historical replacement rates lol.

The numbers in the game at this point are all just roughly rigged to give a good game---which isnt bad IMO....however it does look like the several recent patches which mainly put in helps to the Axis have went to far and the game is becoming unbalanced because of it.



Its not out of balance MT is winning easly and so do many good Russian players

The issue is most Russian players are not very good at all.

Don't cherry pick look at all the games.

As most Western Allied players in WitW simply have no idea how over powered the allies are.

WitW and WitE are WAD, the issue is the players most of the time don't WAD

and simply have no idea how things are working - same goes for most of the people testing it.



chaos45 -> RE: Manpower bug? (10/3/2016 12:08:04 AM)

but by just looking at one game you are cherry picking Pelton.

In fact most of the recent games posted have seen the Germans do in general much better than historical by large margins....not just German games you are playing.



Icier -> RE: Manpower bug? (10/3/2016 12:14:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

The issue is I simply fight allot less then everyone else.

You can increase the losses all you want it will have zero effect on me NONE zip zero.

morveal you have increased losses the last few patchs and I have more men then before while if you look at other AAR's

They have fewer troops look at your AAR.

Your increased losses tweaks have worked on everyone else, but not me.

Why?


Pelton is correct. Most Russian players have read all the AAR's and now its ingrained in their
playing psyche to retreat as quickly as possible, avoid conflict & wait for Winter and then attack the Germans.
And there is the catch.
Average to good players can hurt the Germans, the rest..well.
So if the Germans are not punished, they are well situated to handle the Russians in 42/43.
I noticed that the production posting is late 43, not sure who he is playing, but i will bet the
Russian army is close to 5Million..even with all there losses.
So the quicker the Russians retreat, the better the condition of the German army & the only thing
they then have to worry is to get their logistics/supply in place.






Peltonx -> RE: Manpower bug? (10/3/2016 12:26:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

but by just looking at one game you are cherry picking Pelton.

In fact most of the recent games posted have seen the Germans do in general much better than historical by large margins....not just German games you are playing.


The issue is people are not WAD.

You and MT are but few others as Russians.

This is what screwed the game up before morveal took over. 2by3 tried to make even bad Russian players good which made the game HORRIBLE - even good german players could only get to the rivers and Russians were on offensive by summer of 42.

Tring to hand hold the poor players is not how to design a game.

Kinda whats wrong with most of the country " I know Johny on got a 65 on the final, but he tried hard so I gave him a 90"

The old every one gets a trophy. Why play the game then?

Game is WAD, people are not.



Michael T -> RE: Manpower bug? (10/3/2016 1:35:42 AM)

I think wait for morvaels next patch. He has tweaked losses a bit. And over a lot of turns it might be all that is needed.

My observations are not based on Pelton's game. They are based on my own two recent games and a lot of testing.



Stelteck -> RE: Manpower bug? (10/3/2016 8:11:34 AM)

Thanks for the explanation Pelton, it is completely true that you have a very elegant and delicate way of attacking, with as few attacks as possible to gain the expected result.

Relative to the soviet behaviour (not aggressive enough), the fact that everyone play mild winter now and that the +1 attack bonus highly rare probably do not help.

Without bonus and the bad leaders, in 1941 even en entire soviet army is not sure to disloge a german division. And if a fighting withdrawal occured german looses will be very light.




Denniss -> RE: Manpower bug? (10/3/2016 11:26:16 AM)

It shouldn't be impossible to have a strong German army in 1943 if you avoid catastrophic/idiotic losses like in Stalingrad etc.



chaos45 -> RE: Manpower bug? (10/3/2016 1:04:09 PM)

Yes it should...even before Stalingrad the German army was horribly understrength....stalingrad happened because the Germans had a lack of manpower to man the front already.



Stelteck -> RE: Manpower bug? (10/4/2016 9:11:06 AM)

I will not speak about the manpower balance issue because i lack information about it.

But behind this tree, i see also a technical issue : The TOE upgraded completely not correlated with the operational situation.

TOE of units currently follow history, but looks out of touch with reality of the actions in game :

Example :
-Here in 1943, german squads are downgraded although the pelton's german army do not lack manpower at all and could stay with 10 men squads.
-In my game august 1942, my soviet rifle divisions are downgraded although i have no armement problem to fill the june 1941 TOE.

I hope we will have control of TOE change in WITE2 to avoid these illogicals issues.




Hunter63 -> RE: Manpower bug? (10/17/2016 11:48:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Yes it should...even before Stalingrad the German army was horribly understrength....stalingrad happened because the Germans had a lack of manpower to man the front already.


There is 2 sides to every coin not one.





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