Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (Full Version)

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Max 86 -> Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/5/2016 3:12:53 PM)

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1916672/panic-as-two-russian-bombers-blast-across-europe-causing-four-countries-to-scramble-fighter-jets-to-intercept-them/


"FOUR European countries were forced to scramble fighter jets after two Russian Blackjack bombers blasted across the continent, it has been revealed.

The UK, Norway, France and Spain all intercepted the TU-160 planes as they made a daring flight from Norway to northern Spain and back."

Well, this is certainly interesting. We all know how much Putin enjoys irking the west but could this be a prelude to something more? What are your thoughts?



Qwixt -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/5/2016 3:29:35 PM)

I think the Russian people like it when Putin does stuff like that, so it's part of trying to keep his popularity up as a dictator, and distracting the people that he is a dictator. I also think he has the people thinking all their country's problems are due to the west. So this all ties in together.

Then you have to look at how NATO is moving right up to the Russian border, and consider history of how the Russians are always invaded in the past. As long as there is a prepared show of force back, I don't think it means anything.



Chickenboy -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/5/2016 3:34:52 PM)

I think this event and these like them (Bear bomber sorties off the coast of CONUS or Canada) have been going on for years now and I don't view them individually as specific threats. But these belie the very real threat that Russia's land forces increasingly pose to their neighbors, including NATO countries that they border. Those very much concern me.



Poopyhead -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/5/2016 4:19:30 PM)

How about if we don't scramble 21st century fighters in response to the last handful of operational cold war bombers the Russians possess? Instead, the radar tower personnel should radio to the bomber crews that they are "Clear to defect", followed by laughter. Don't forget that not one single soldier fired one shot to defend the Soviet Union from falling apart. A return to Stalinism won't save the Russians.



wings7 -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/5/2016 4:20:21 PM)

I think the sanctions against Russia has really irked Putin (and others) so there might be some sort of retaliation on. They have been probing at least since after WWII so I don't think anything serious is happening, that being said, the NATO (and nuclear) presence is still very important.



Chickenboy -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/5/2016 4:40:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Poopyhead
Don't forget that not one single soldier fired one shot to defend the Soviet Union from falling apart. A return to Stalinism won't save the Russians.


While I concur with the sentiment, is the first sentence accurate? Couldn't one say that this event was part and parcel a fight regarding the Supreme Soviet and Russian forces?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Russian_constitutional_crisis




Poopyhead -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/5/2016 5:43:09 PM)

Only if you contend that the SU would have been resurrected. It had fallen in 1991.



Max 86 -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/5/2016 5:51:42 PM)

I think it also has to do with the Russians monitoring the response of the other countries. Had no fighters been scrambled, what message would that send to the Russian high command, rightly or wrongly? They might think that would be a show of weakness which could possibly be exploited down the road, militarily or diplomatically.






warspite1 -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/5/2016 5:58:03 PM)

Well I don't know about all this Russian/Putin stuff, but one thing I do know. Probe is a positively disgusting word [:-]



wings7 -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/5/2016 6:10:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well I don't know about all this Russian/Putin stuff, but one thing I do know. Probe is a positively disgusting word [:-]


Not half as disgusting as war...[:-]



warspite1 -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/5/2016 6:16:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well I don't know about all this Russian/Putin stuff, but one thing I do know. Probe is a positively disgusting word [:-]


Not half as disgusting as war...[:-]
warspite1

....or crevice



PipFromSlitherine -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/5/2016 6:19:42 PM)

Moist.

That is all.

Cheers

Pip



wings7 -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/5/2016 6:26:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well I don't know about all this Russian/Putin stuff, but one thing I do know. Probe is a positively disgusting word [:-]


Not half as disgusting as war...[:-]
warspite1

....or crevice



or crevice? [&:]



warspite1 -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/5/2016 7:25:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well I don't know about all this Russian/Putin stuff, but one thing I do know. Probe is a positively disgusting word [:-]


Not half as disgusting as war...[:-]
warspite1

....or crevice



or crevice? [&:]
warspite1

Obviously not a fan of Blackadder then Patrick? [:)]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Daa8ZnxC-0Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vafxnkWndI

@ 0:34



wings7 -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/5/2016 9:18:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well I don't know about all this Russian/Putin stuff, but one thing I do know. Probe is a positively disgusting word [:-]


Not half as disgusting as war...[:-]
warspite1

....or crevice



or crevice? [&:]
warspite1

Obviously not a fan of Blackadder then Patrick? [:)]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Daa8ZnxC-0Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vafxnkWndI

@ 0:34



That's great! You Brits have a unique sense of humor that very often goes over your cousins heads here! [:)]



Aurelian -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/5/2016 9:57:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well I don't know about all this Russian/Putin stuff, but one thing I do know. Probe is a positively disgusting word [:-]


Depends on where you probe.

Or if you own a Probe.

[image]local://upfiles/24234/8F5621FA18C2419DB6DFF4FBD30130C8.jpg[/image]



Erik Rutins -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/5/2016 10:10:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Poopyhead
Don't forget that not one single soldier fired one shot to defend the Soviet Union from falling apart.


They did, at least in the Baltic States, but admittedly it was not many compared to the armed forces as a whole. There were also some casualties in the 1991 coup attempt, if I recall correctly.

Regards,

- Erik




Chickenboy -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/5/2016 11:12:32 PM)

quote:



That's great! You Brits have a unique sense of humor that is entirely indecipherable to everyone else on the planet. Were you all collectively dropped on your heads as infants?


I fixed that for you, wings7. [;)]



wings7 -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/5/2016 11:45:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:



That's great! You Brits have a unique sense of humor that is entirely indecipherable to everyone else on the planet. Were you all collectively dropped on your heads as infants?


I fixed that for you, wings7. [;)]


You do have a great sense of humor! [:)] And, a great intellect, writer and historian also, that is not a joke! [&o]



Otto von Blotto -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/6/2016 1:33:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Max 86

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1916672/panic-as-two-russian-bombers-blast-across-europe-causing-four-countries-to-scramble-fighter-jets-to-intercept-them/


"FOUR European countries were forced to scramble fighter jets after two Russian Blackjack bombers blasted across the continent, it has been revealed.

The UK, Norway, France and Spain all intercepted the TU-160 planes as they made a daring flight from Norway to northern Spain and back."

Well, this is certainly interesting. We all know how much Putin enjoys irking the west but could this be a prelude to something more? What are your thoughts?


A continuation of the same types of games the west have played with them for decades.



fvianello -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/6/2016 9:34:33 AM)

Most of Russia actions, in every historical period, are made to impress the internal public opinion and to maintain an overall scenario of continuous struggle against hostile powers, à la 1984.

Putin is no different from Stalin, Ivan the Terrible or Brezhnev in that.

Of course, the same methods are more or less used by many governments, but in Russia is the first and foremost consideration to take into account - almost everything else is secondary.



Pvt_Grunt -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/6/2016 10:50:21 AM)

The Russian republic is a second rate empire still pretending to itself it's relevant. It's allies are now Syria, a Filipino crazy, and some drunks in Eastern Ukraine who shoot missiles at civilian airliners.

Having said that they are still a menace as they have nukes and that amazing Russian ability to deny the truth about their actions.



Gilmer -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/6/2016 12:05:25 PM)

I'm too old of a bunny to get excited about all of this.



Chickenboy -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/6/2016 5:50:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HanBarca

Most of Russia actions, in every historical period, are made to impress the internal public opinion and to maintain an overall scenario of continuous struggle against hostile powers, à la 1984.

Putin is no different from Stalin, Ivan the Terrible or Brezhnev in that.

Of course, the same methods are more or less used by many governments, but in Russia is the first and foremost consideration to take into account - almost everything else is secondary.


Spot on mate.

I've heard an interview with the author of Nothing is True and Everything is Possible by Pomerantsev that was quite instructive. The "spaghetti defense" to convolute / conflate / confuse the truth with Russian pressbots, paid online trolls and the like is alive and well in modern Russia.

I've ordered the book and will chime back in after I have a chance to review further.



Orm -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/6/2016 7:40:18 PM)

quote:

and consider history of how the Russians are always invaded in the past.

And Russia has, of course, never invaded anyone. [8|]



Jagdtiger14 -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/7/2016 1:48:18 AM)

This was unfurled on a Manhattan bridge today. Would be funny if we were not in the sad state of affairs we are in.

The Chinese are probing for weaknesses as well (South China Sea, Japanese islands), and Xi is looking to stay in power for good..




[image]local://upfiles/28013/4257DD46B30A438D8068042F69F21061.jpg[/image]



Qwixt -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/7/2016 2:48:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

and consider history of how the Russians are always invaded in the past.

And Russia has, of course, never invaded anyone. [8|]


I never said or implied that they hadn't.



wings7 -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/7/2016 1:30:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

This was unfurled on a Manhattan bridge today. Would be funny if we were not in the sad state of affairs we are in.

The Chinese are probing for weaknesses as well (South China Sea, Japanese islands), and Xi is looking to stay in power for good..




[image]local://upfiles/28013/4257DD46B30A438D8068042F69F21061.jpg[/image]


[8|][>:]



Chickenboy -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/7/2016 2:02:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

This was unfurled on a Manhattan bridge today. Would be funny if we were not in the sad state of affairs we are in.



You know, Jagtiger14, I'm almost starting to think that some of the usual paid 'useful idiot' Putinbots did that...[:D]



PipFromSlitherine -> RE: Are Russians Probing for Weaknesses? (10/7/2016 4:56:27 PM)

I have deleted some inappropriate posts. Locking will be next.

Cheers

Pip



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