Questions for Wild Bill: sucide attacks? (Full Version)

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MwR -> Questions for Wild Bill: sucide attacks? (5/11/2001 1:03:00 AM)

As most of us know, the Japanese have this habit for last-ditch sucide attacks - "banzai charge" is one of many - and sucide weapons. One I remembered is the lunge mine which is used in destroying tanks. I wondered if this is included somewhere in the SPWaW? I am a new comer to this type of game, so even now I am still figuring how to play. Thanks for the trouble of answering this. P.S.:I must say that I liked the Tiger 101 tutorial very much. I creamed the whole Soviet tank column with the Tiger and have the German paratroopers to clean up the survivors. Cool! :cool: ;)



Don -> (5/11/2001 2:51:00 AM)

quote:

P.S.:I must say that I liked the Tiger 101 tutorial very much. I creamed the whole Soviet tank column with the Tiger and have the German paratroopers to clean up the survivors. Cool!
Thanks alot, MwR! Fabio Prado did a fine job on that and the harder "How to Kill a Tiger". The text files he wrote are excellent!



Larry Holt -> (5/11/2001 3:06:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by MwR: As most of us know, the Japanese have this habit for last-ditch sucide attacks - "banzai charge" is one of many - and sucide weapons. One I remembered is the lunge mine which is used in destroying tanks. I wondered if this is included somewhere in the SPWaW? ...
AFAIK the lunge mine was a joke, not a real weapon. Can you point me to a source for this? Thanks,



MwR -> (5/11/2001 3:26:00 AM)

:confused: I can't exactly tell where I saw this, but I do remember I saw it from a documentary on TV. Whatever that is, Japs were not known to make good weapons (with exception of a few fighter types and those large I-type subs). Anyway, if the SPWaW have ships, then the Japs will have those options like kaitens and stuffs, right? One last thing, does Japs have a higher rate in melee combat?



Peregrine Falcon -> (5/11/2001 4:13:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by MwR: :confused: I can't exactly tell where I saw this, but I do remember I saw it from a documentary on TV. Whatever that is, Japs were not known to make good weapons (with exception of a few fighter types and those large I-type subs).
...and very good battleships, guns, carriers, effective destroyers with very good, long-range torpedos (powered by oxygen, not compressed air) + many other good stuff. That TV documentary sounds like fiction to me :rolleyes: Some of the AA-weapons werent that good, like many other smallarms (excluding rifles) Good weapons wont help though, if you have very bad leadership (like Germany had)
quote:

Anyway, if the SPWaW have ships, then the Japs will have those options like kaitens and stuffs, right?)
No. Nothing like that. There arent really many naval units in SPWAW. Kaitens really do not belong to this type of game.
quote:

One last thing, does Japs have a higher rate in melee combat?
I really like to know that myself! Manual is very poor in that respect. But JAPANESE troops may use wild Banzai-attacks in melee, so that can be counted as a little bonus (like soviet berserk-mode I guess..) [ May 10, 2001: Message edited by: Peregrine Falcon ]



murx -> (5/11/2001 5:21:00 AM)

I wont say if you have very bad leadership (like Germany had) The main problem were those stupid 'Hitler Directive' like commands. I guess the German Highcommand officers/generals were most likely to beat 70% of all Allied & Russian COs to Alaska and back if on equal numbers & supplies (as Rommel, Guderian, Kesselring and lots & lots of other German COs have shown). But infact the German were in the late years of the wars no COs but book keepers of the losses due to stupid orders given by a mere 'Obergefreiter' called Hitler. But that's what you get if you let a PFC class soldier command whole armies... Even nowadays within the NATO maneuvers the US/Britsih forces tend to lack that extra esprit when battling German playing 'opfor'. My view on this is not that the soldiers are less trained (infact they are most of the time better trained!) but to a different 'commanding philosophy'. The German line of command doesn't consist of exact orders but more the style 'Do something that will ensure this or that' - leaving the exact execution and decisions to the CO at the location. murx



Peregrine Falcon -> (5/11/2001 5:54:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by murx: I wont say if you have very bad leadership (like Germany had) The main problem were those stupid 'Hitler Directive' like commands. I guess the German Highcommand officers/generals were most likely to beat 70% of all Allied & Russian COs to Alaska and back if on equal numbers & supplies (as Rommel, Guderian, Kesselring and lots & lots of other German COs have shown). But infact the German were in the late years of the wars no COs but book keepers of the losses due to stupid orders given by a mere 'Obergefreiter' called Hitler. But that's what you get if you let a PFC class soldier command whole armies... murx
I agree fully. That was really my point earlier. You cant win, even with skilled experienced troops and good equipment, if all orders are just plain flawed. I think this was the case with Germany and Japan during WWII. Japan had very good navy, even surpassing US.navy in strength, but because of bad leadership, this proud navy was soon annihilated. Of course, Japan could not compete with US production capability, but like Germany, Japan had its chance.



Wild Bill -> (5/11/2001 6:16:00 AM)

Okay, my turn. A lot of stuff has gone out here and I'll answer what I can. Let's start with the question from MwR "Lunge" mines are in the game. They are destructive Explosive charges used primarily against armored vehicles. The Japanese are also equipped with AT grenades, pole mines, and satchel charges. These were the weapons primarily used against Allied armor thoughout the war by the infantry. The mines that the Japanese used are described in some detail in Forty's book, "Japanese Army Handbook - 1941-1945." Among these he describes the model 99 (1939) anti-tank mine, a magnetic mine placed on a tank and detonated. See also "Handbook on Japanese Forces" originally published by the US War Department (now Dept of Defense) and then republished by LSU library. They also describe the Japanese Molotov cocktail incendiary grenade. He also describes an underwater mine and the famous "tape-measure" mine. The Japanes also had antitank guns though the 47mm was the largest to ever see action in the form of an AT gun. Next: Banzai charges. As I understand it, the Japanese are set up in this game to never retreat or rout. They can be suppressed but they will not surrender or run. This means in terms of the game that if you are defending the Japanese will come and keep coming, unless suppressed, and when rallied, they come again. You'll have to kill them to stop them for sure. As to "melee" effects, I do seem to remember David H telling me both the Japanese and the Russians had a slightly higher value in melee attacks. The Japanese did use all sorts of suicide tactics including suicide submarines and aircraft. It is not fantasy but the final reaction of a desperate people who did not want to accept surrender as an honorable alternative in defeat. Okay MwR, I hope I have addressed your question and answered it. Thanks for asking. Wild Bill



troopie -> (5/11/2001 6:22:00 AM)

It sounds like that battles between the Japanese and the Aussies (love those bayonets!) will come down to handstrokes. Will there be a melee ability to put in when designing units? troopie



Wild Bill -> (5/11/2001 6:23:00 AM)

If you want examples of just how the Japanese attack in the game under AI control, play Water to Blood (68), Tracks and Sabers, Chiang's Nightmare, and Raiders Hold (82) scenarios in SPWAW. That will show you better than what I might say here. And as for tenacious defenders to the death play the Betio amphibious assault scenario (18), or A Marine Ordeal (Peleliu) (76). Good examples of how the Japanese work in this game. Wild Bill



MwR -> (5/11/2001 11:26:00 AM)

Thanks everyone. Guess I better brush up my WWII knowledge the next time I speak here. :D For those who said the German commanders are good but their boss is bad, I really agreed. Who on Earth other than a mad man would order the death of one of his finest officers? I guess mostly due to the fact that both choose to fight to the end, either ordered by the leader (Germany) or due to national pride (Japanese saw shame in retreat, they rather die than doing so). Like someone have said once: we are not retreating, we are advancing to another direction (something along that line, I remember), hold the ground may be a bold and honourable, but unflexable. As to Wild Bill's reply, I must say thank you for that. Even now I still figure out how to play this game (I'm a new-comer to this type of wargame). I have to admit that it is very addictive game, could glued me to the PC for whole night. :D



BomBeer -> (5/11/2001 3:15:00 PM)

Tutorial # 9 Cave Busting is a good example of the Japanese troops defending. I got a draw and lost twice as many men fighting them. :)



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