AGM-88Harm ARM BOL activation Point? (Full Version)

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U6443 -> AGM-88Harm ARM BOL activation Point? (10/18/2016 4:02:53 PM)

Hi

Where do you set the activation Point for BOL Attack for the AGM-88B Harm against ships? The ship is radiating, but teh AGM-88B Harm i can only attack with BOL

10nm? 5nm? which is the best distance? I tried just before the ship but most fly over it (despite it is radiating)


Thank's

Andy



Cik -> RE: AGM-88Harm ARM BOL activation Point? (10/18/2016 6:24:01 PM)

is there a reason you can't just turn it on immediately?

i mean, the target of opportunity modes in real life generally go active off the rail; only the restrictive steerpoint attack methods (equations of motion, pre-briefed) actually restrict seeker window / activation to certain weapon time-on-target values.

the reason it's flying over the target if you turn it on very late is probably because it's too high. remember that at least IRL HARMs fly a fairly high attack profile, to maximize ballistic range, and since they aren't very maneuverable they will have trouble turning in to home on anything off seeker boresight unless they have a reasonable amount of time to do so.



dcpollay -> RE: AGM-88Harm ARM BOL activation Point? (10/18/2016 10:40:53 PM)

Can you even BOL a HARM? I thought they needed to have a targeted emitter locked on in order to launch.
I could be wrong, as some missiles have loiter/search capability, but....



mikmykWS -> RE: AGM-88Harm ARM BOL activation Point? (10/19/2016 12:05:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: U6443

Hi

Where do you set the activation Point for BOL Attack for the AGM-88B Harm against ships? The ship is radiating, but teh AGM-88B Harm i can only attack with BOL

10nm? 5nm? which is the best distance? I tried just before the ship but most fly over it (despite it is radiating)


Thank's

Andy



Hey Andy post the file and somebody can tell you exactly what's going on.

Thanks!

Mike



mikmykWS -> RE: AGM-88Harm ARM BOL activation Point? (10/19/2016 12:07:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cik

is there a reason you can't just turn it on immediately?

i mean, the target of opportunity modes in real life generally go active off the rail; only the restrictive steerpoint attack methods (equations of motion, pre-briefed) actually restrict seeker window / activation to certain weapon time-on-target values.

the reason it's flying over the target if you turn it on very late is probably because it's too high. remember that at least IRL HARMs fly a fairly high attack profile, to maximize ballistic range, and since they aren't very maneuverable they will have trouble turning in to home on anything off seeker boresight unless they have a reasonable amount of time to do so.


No this wouldn't likely be it. How long have you been playing this game?

Thanks

Mike



Cik -> RE: AGM-88Harm ARM BOL activation Point? (10/19/2016 6:01:48 AM)

after a little testing BOL HARMs behave pretty strangely. or, i guess not strangely if you consider BOL a steerpoint target (which i didn't)

instead of flying an RUK-style profile they fly a attack profile, then "turn-on" and choose a radar type at the point given at the origin of the BOL command.

i figured they would fly a more typical self defense profile. personally i don't think BOL is that useful with HARMs. is there any reason you can't just fire them at the ships? if it won't let you, just modify the WRA. if they are emitting there's no reason you shouldn't be able to shoot at them.



U6443 -> RE: AGM-88Harm ARM BOL activation Point? (10/19/2016 3:58:59 PM)

Hi

Here you have a savefile. For example on the left side I would like to attack the BPK Udaloy I (radiating at the moment)
with HARM missiles from GROUP4724 (A-6E Intruder), distance 38nm. I can only attack with BOL...

Thank's

Andy



Cik -> RE: AGM-88Harm ARM BOL activation Point? (10/19/2016 7:06:19 PM)

your ROE is set to weapons HOLD across the board, which is why they aren't firing.

once i changed the ROE to weapons tight (as is normal.. why exactly it's set to hold who knows) it worked okay.



U6443 -> RE: AGM-88Harm ARM BOL activation Point? (10/19/2016 7:42:30 PM)

Yes, but it should be possible to fire manual the ARM, shouldn't it?

Andy



Cik -> RE: AGM-88Harm ARM BOL activation Point? (10/19/2016 7:49:42 PM)

if you are weapons tight you can manually allocate to targets with shift+f1

if you really, really want to BOL it for some reason, my advice is to do a BOL directly in front of your formation a small distance. the problem you're going to have it twofold:

1. the BOL HARM randomly chooses a radar type (or at least it seems like this is true) meaning you aren't even sure it's going to pick something in range

2. target allocation is going to be all over the place because of 1.

if your objective is to blind or sink the enemy ships, why not just fire the HARMs the normal way?

really, BOL only really shines on weapons that require it (TALD, iTALD?) or weapons that have a mid-course update option (TACTOM tomahawks)

everything else it's kind of a weird compromise, and on HARMs especially it's very awkward.




U6443 -> RE: AGM-88Harm ARM BOL activation Point? (10/19/2016 8:16:39 PM)

Hi
I'm sorry but it is only possible BOL. Did you use my savefile? Group 4725 (Intruder) with hold or thight doesn't matter, only BOL possible against BPK Udaloy...

really strange. Anybody else can try my savefile?

Andy



U6443 -> RE: AGM-88Harm ARM BOL activation Point? (10/19/2016 8:24:17 PM)

I never use automatic fire, always manual control. And manual control is not possible...Can anybody confirm this with my savefile?



Cik -> RE: AGM-88Harm ARM BOL activation Point? (10/19/2016 8:49:42 PM)

it's because at the start they aren't emitting

turn on emissions, they don't even snap-on any radars until the first udaloy gains visual of your hornet-launched harpoons

after that it works entirely as normal

shift+f1
allocate HARMs as desired

they work

what's the issue?



U6443 -> RE: AGM-88Harm ARM BOL activation Point? (10/19/2016 11:27:37 PM)

HI
Thank's.[:D][:D]. I now see that i have no emissions on[&o].. (but actually i don't want that my planes are radiating)
But do i really want to turn on my emission only to fire my HARMS? Maybe better to wait until they detect my TALD. It seems my timing was not perfect and the TALD missiles are to late (or my TALD are flying slow with only 400kts[:D])


I thought that my TALD are already detected 12 miles and 10000ft away from the enemy???? Or is the AI so good that they turn on their radars only to harpoon and not to TALD?

Maybe i have to test this with a demo scenario




thewood1 -> RE: AGM-88Harm ARM BOL activation Point? (10/19/2016 11:43:44 PM)

He means the ship's emmissions, I think.



Cik -> RE: AGM-88Harm ARM BOL activation Point? (10/20/2016 4:47:50 AM)

aye, the udaloy (and the other ships) aren't emitting at all.

they only do a radar snap-on once they visually tally your harpoons to engage them with CIWS and other point defence.

HARMs are a fully autonomous seekerhead, they don't need to emit to seek, like heatseekers. but the thing they are attacking has to be radiating at some point, so they know where to go before they blow up.

as to why at least one of them isn't radiating: it seems unwise but maybe they are under the false impression that they are sneaky.



U6443 -> RE: AGM-88Harm ARM BOL activation Point? (10/20/2016 3:04:03 PM)

Yes, if the ship doesn't radiate then you can only BOL attack with HARM.

So how do you let the ship radiate?

1) attack with misiles (TALD or harpoon, but it seems that the ship doesn't turn on radar on the TALD....)
2) turn on radar on my units in the air (I don't want to do this).

Andy



mikmykWS -> RE: AGM-88Harm ARM BOL activation Point? (10/20/2016 3:57:48 PM)

Thanks for posting the scenario. A good tip for troubleshooting stuff if you're new is to watch in editor mode to see what happens. You can learn a ton about the game this way.

This is what I see. The author has set the Gorshov group to passive (fine) but unfortunately the Hawkeyeski which is supposed to provide coverage is just in range which means small targets like decoys and missiles won't be detected until very late if at all. Fact you'll likely be getting esm or visual sittings of missiles themselves from the ships before the Hawkeyeski sees them. This is obviously an issue for the kind of attack you're trying to conduct because you're depending on something to trigger the Gorshov's groups to go active which will allow you to attack with HARMS. This unfortunately doesn't happen unit very late which by then your aircraft are way too close etc. Regardless this is a game play or scenario edit issue and not a game bug. I'd work on a different attack strategy or talk with the guy that built the scenario about this.

Mike



U6443 -> RE: AGM-88Harm ARM BOL activation Point? (10/20/2016 4:05:50 PM)

Thank's. I agree completely

Andy



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