RE: Air commands (Full Version)

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M60A3TTS -> RE: Air commands (2/12/2017 2:32:54 AM)

Seriously my friend, lose the fleet air commands and recoup the manpower. And the BAKs... And Southern Ural Air Command... And 6&7 IAK. All extraneous.



topeverest -> air units (2/12/2017 2:33:43 AM)

Build of soviet air force continues to progress

[image]local://upfiles/26803/B249B6D0E5B34234B4228FBE263D3F3F.jpg[/image]



iwolfhound -> RE: Air commands (2/13/2017 9:57:21 PM)

Good Fight...Moscow or bust.



topeverest -> Turn 32 Jan 22 1942 (2/18/2017 10:25:06 PM)

RL got in the way again...

Germans begin spotty counterattacks
Russians close to closing Moscow Pincer in very heavy combat - expect local german counterattacks there
Good progress in southern Ukraine - Almost at the Dneiper
Factory relocation program nearing an end - all factories moved from kerch - Rostov - Vorenezh Moscow line.
Trans caucuses front in reserve at Stalino - considering throwing them against weekly held axis positions at the deneiper.

Generally speaking =, the net few turns might be very fruitful. have to play them,, but this may the the fruition of winter campaign



topeverest -> RE: Air commands (2/18/2017 10:25:56 PM)

I am going for a pincer win around Moscow as it is not possible to pierce the defenses 33K defense from 18 points.
I aint getting through that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wolflion

Good Fight...Moscow or bust.





topeverest -> RE: Air commands (2/18/2017 10:27:22 PM)

Basic question here -
1. does the relative good Russian result so far defelct the need to resorb these units, as I am trying to build a large air force
2. what is the practical air force limits in the game, and how would I know I am past them beyond not having the replacements

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Seriously my friend, lose the fleet air commands and recoup the manpower. And the BAKs... And Southern Ural Air Command... And 6&7 IAK. All extraneous.




topeverest -> Moscow - (2/18/2017 10:29:45 PM)

As you can see in the face of heavy defensive presence, the attack continues to make steady if slow progress. we are getting close to pucker time for the Germans

[image]local://upfiles/26803/583F561491D14C42AB2E1C5AB2220539.jpg[/image]



topeverest -> Southern Ukraine (2/18/2017 10:37:19 PM)

Lots of opportunity to take more real estate here. Have to decide if to commit Trans Caucuses Front or keep it in reserve for the German spring offensive.

[image]local://upfiles/26803/E492F80888664FC490842159178C9B7A.jpg[/image]



M60A3TTS -> RE: Air commands (2/19/2017 5:08:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

Basic question here -
1. does the relative good Russian result so far defelct the need to resorb these units, as I am trying to build a large air force
2. what is the practical air force limits in the game, and how would I know I am past them beyond not having the replacements

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Seriously my friend, lose the fleet air commands and recoup the manpower. And the BAKs... And Southern Ural Air Command... And 6&7 IAK. All extraneous.




Let's review what I'm suggesting, and that is eliminating air headquarters units only. I am not suggesting you shrink the aircraft in your force, nor necessarily the airbases associated with them.

Naval Air Commands were real-life units that offer no practical value to this game. There is no naval war to support.

IAK, or Air Interceptor Commands, were historically tasked with opposing enemy air activity over the cities of Moscow and Leningrad. There is almost never any sort of Axis bombing campaign against these cities. Therefore, these unit HQs, like the naval commands, serve no practical purpose. If you want to keep the airbases associated with them, by all means go ahead.

The Long Range Air Command historically had 4 corps headquarters at the start of the conflict, and which if I am not mistaken were disbanded some time in 1941. In any event, since there is no cap on air divisions assigned to a HQ, there is no reason you can't consolidate the LRAC airbases under one parent HQ.

The practical limit of air forces was recently mentioned in another thread. I believe that Morvael suggested not going much beyond 18k aircraft. There are potential system glitches if you go too far.

The following is my projected air division deployment against Pitaman as we're wrapping up Spring '42 mud turns:

30 IAD fighter divisions
14 ShAD ground attack divisions
6 BAD long range bomber divisions
7 VVS divisions
1 PVO division of Transcaucasus Front that is frozen for the duration of the game.

All my SADs are gone, the PVO bases except for the frozen one are gone, the naval air divisions are long gone. In another year, the 6 long range bomber divisions will likely be replaced with ground attack divisions and I may add up to another 10 ground attack divisions beyond that. That would give me 30 IADs and 30 ShADs- a very flexible and potent force. But that's still in the planning stages- a long way to go yet.



topeverest -> RE: Air commands (2/19/2017 12:07:54 PM)

Sir,

this is very helpful -- thanks

I wasn't thinking that the game tried to find air units from particular types of airbases.

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS


quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

Basic question here -
1. does the relative good Russian result so far defelct the need to resorb these units, as I am trying to build a large air force
2. what is the practical air force limits in the game, and how would I know I am past them beyond not having the replacements

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Seriously my friend, lose the fleet air commands and recoup the manpower. And the BAKs... And Southern Ural Air Command... And 6&7 IAK. All extraneous.




Let's review what I'm suggesting, and that is eliminating air headquarters units only. I am not suggesting you shrink the aircraft in your force, nor necessarily the airbases associated with them.

Naval Air Commands were real-life units that offer no practical value to this game. There is no naval war to support.

IAK, or Air Interceptor Commands, were historically tasked with opposing enemy air activity over the cities of Moscow and Leningrad. There is almost never any sort of Axis bombing campaign against these cities. Therefore, these unit HQs, like the naval commands, serve no practical purpose. If you want to keep the airbases associated with them, by all means go ahead.

The Long Range Air Command historically had 4 corps headquarters at the start of the conflict, and which if I am not mistaken were disbanded some time in 1941. In any event, since there is no cap on air divisions assigned to a HQ, there is no reason you can't consolidate the LRAC airbases under one parent HQ.

The practical limit of air forces was recently mentioned in another thread. I believe that Morvael suggested not going much beyond 18k aircraft. There are potential system glitches if you go too far.

The following is my projected air division deployment against Pitaman as we're wrapping up Spring '42 mud turns:

30 IAD fighter divisions
14 ShAD ground attack divisions
6 BAD long range bomber divisions
7 VVS divisions
1 PVO division of Transcaucasus Front that is frozen for the duration of the game.

All my SADs are gone, the PVO bases except for the frozen one are gone, the naval air divisions are long gone. In another year, the 6 long range bomber divisions will likely be replaced with ground attack divisions and I may add up to another 10 ground attack divisions beyond that. That would give me 30 IADs and 30 ShADs- a very flexible and potent force. But that's still in the planning stages- a long way to go yet.




topeverest -> 2 Questions (2/19/2017 12:14:42 PM)

A couple questions I cannot answer - help appreciated

1. I tried to combine 2 infantry brigades last turn and it appears to be disabled. They were infantry brigades in the same command and hadn't moved and were in ready mode and 12 hexes behind the MLR. Is that disabled until I can make infantry corps in April 42? As I was able to make cavalry corps of course

2. As the winter turns into the mud and I focus my efforts on infantry corps, should I use the 4 shock armies to make guard infantry armies and get the extra 5 points of morale bonus - use regular armies - or embed some guard corps in each army



sillyflower -> RE: 2 Questions (2/19/2017 4:43:16 PM)

The answer is in the updated manual somewhere. Don't think you can make rifle divs that way until April or May '42

Re M60's air force, the rest of us aren't so fastidious/careful (delete to choice). Airbases are airbases with only VVS being different in also allowing partisan resupply at night.



smokindave34 -> RE: 2 Questions (2/19/2017 4:47:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

A couple questions I cannot answer - help appreciated

1. I tried to combine 2 infantry brigades last turn and it appears to be disabled. They were infantry brigades in the same command and hadn't moved and were in ready mode and 12 hexes behind the MLR. Is that disabled until I can make infantry corps in April 42? As I was able to make cavalry corps of course

2. As the winter turns into the mud and I focus my efforts on infantry corps, should I use the 4 shock armies to make guard infantry armies and get the extra 5 points of morale bonus - use regular armies - or embed some guard corps in each army


You can combine the rifle brigades into divisions starting in May '42. I'm about 90% certain that the only restriction is that they can't be naval rifle brigades



Stelteck -> RE: 2 Questions (2/19/2017 6:24:11 PM)

I'am not sūre 2 rifle brigade is enough to create a division. Maybe you need 3.

Thinking about it, having tons of small units to man and maintain rear fortification is very usefull (and merged into rifle corps). In my game i converted tons of brigades to division, but it was not a good idea.




topeverest -> comments (2/20/2017 12:21:28 AM)

I was Thinking that it was forbidden until april 42 because you could build 2 brigades for half of a division.



topeverest -> Turn 33 January 29, 1942 (2/20/2017 12:27:15 AM)

Russian Pincer at Moscow forces Germans to withdrawal from North Moscow and Moscow hexes. Russians are well on their way to achieving the major objective of securing all of Moscow

Axis Minor's forces have crumbled on the Dneiper in Southern Ukraine. Russia will have to decide if to continue the assault, or use the river as a defensive barrier for the summer campaigns



topeverest -> Moscow (2/20/2017 12:29:32 AM)

I wasn't sure I was going to force the enemy to withdrawal. The enemy around Moscow is very strong and has not given up an inch.

[image]local://upfiles/26803/97AD78078B48481EAF4E5E04F099A1A3.jpg[/image]



topeverest -> Turn 33 --- Southern Ukraine (2/20/2017 12:34:23 AM)

Here is the big conundrum - the enemy fighting capacity has collapsed. How best to exploit, or not? I haven't decided.

I could dig in with defense in depth, as my forces are terribly strong in their own right, limiting the enemy's ability where they
can attack this summer.

Or I could attack a burn the offensive out -----

I am open to ideas.

[image]local://upfiles/26803/09DD97467E3B4966B058A7B3A9501574.jpg[/image]



sillyflower -> RE: Turn 33 --- Southern Ukraine (2/20/2017 11:28:48 AM)

Depends on whether you are playing mild or full fat winter, the date and the overall state of the armies. G recover amazingly quickly and can devastate an over-extended Red Army in March, especially if the winter was mild. The south is also the most vulnerable to the counter offensive because the only defensible terrain is behind rivers, and they are still frozen.

But whoever heard of an appropriately cautious Texican? [:D]



topeverest -> Game Options (2/20/2017 2:56:49 PM)

Here are the options for the game

41-45 campaign game v 1.09



[image]local://upfiles/26803/6048D4D9C9CA4DDDB37A235AB1F30C5C.jpg[/image]



topeverest -> Turn 34 - Feb 5 1942 (2/20/2017 4:36:27 PM)

German defenses stiffened this turn. Aside - I saw the same thing the first turn of January. I confabulate that there is a gradual reduction
in the defensive penalty to the Germans. In any event, the attack progress ground to a sliver except on the Dneper.

Germany completes its withdrawal of W Moscow. The entire city is now in Russian hands, but the offensive probably has shot its bolt, when
considering the increased defensive values of German units. To be sure, Germany will be within a few hexes of Moscow and could restart the
offensive for the city if desired once the weather breaks.

on the Dneper, most of the enemy for forces are now safely across the river, but some fighting continues, including at Zaphorozhye when Russian
attacks barely missed taking the city.



topeverest -> Lower Ukraine (2/20/2017 4:45:43 PM)

will this become a Stalingrad or will he withdrawl

[image]local://upfiles/26803/040C3BB75BE549A3B0BDB3D8E78D706F.jpg[/image]



topeverest -> AFV Production (2/20/2017 4:52:39 PM)

This looks excellent - T34's fully deployed in existing units. Heavy Tanks 90% filled.

note - I specifically avoided using tanks during the offensive

[image]local://upfiles/26803/EC170762819C425EB152589E4B73EB77.jpg[/image]



topeverest -> Overall Pools (2/20/2017 5:08:11 PM)

Some good news here too.

Pool amounts building in manpower and armaments

46 Heavy Industry still damaged
75 Armaments still damaged

All factories from Moscow to Voronezh to Rostov to Kerch (and west) are moved

[image]local://upfiles/26803/356181C33CA24DA68F33150DE135B6BE.jpg[/image]



sillyflower -> RE: Overall Pools (2/20/2017 8:25:17 PM)

You already have far more tk x than you will ever need. Just a waste of precious trucks to make more, as you will probably disband quite a few of your existing ones later on. Also don't go wild on new air units. The units go up to 32 planes at some point and many R players build too many then have to put them into reserve because they use too many trucks.Build the SUs you will need for the corps you will get.
Expect a manpower crunch too so be careful about the number of new inf units you build. Brigades are more use than divs as you will need 1 for each inf xxx you build. With free returns, you won't need very many.In the medium term you will find yourself with a truck shortage. It's the only shortage you should have if you saved enough arms and HI factories



topeverest -> Trucks (2/20/2017 9:00:33 PM)

Thanks Sillyflower,

I do have a truck problem for sure.

Just one more part of the game I failed to learn until now. The question is what to do about it.

By my records, the ruskies build about 1000 trucks per turn via lend lease, but I don't know
how to predict the non-lend lease amount built. This problem don't look like it will resolve.

Is there any way to determine how much I gain if I disband some air units?



[image]local://upfiles/26803/43A7E184F5A44B73B6CE9C7781573714.jpg[/image]



Stelteck -> RE: Trucks (2/20/2017 9:29:42 PM)

The requirement in trucks of an airfield is displayed on the unit detailed display when you open it.

An airfield with 9 air squad of level bombers car easily use 1000 trucks. But the truck requirements will be a lot lower if the airfield is empty.

You truck production is according to your amount of vehicule factory. You will see how many trucks you produced in the turn report.




sillyflower -> RE: Trucks (2/20/2017 9:47:05 PM)

most trucks come from LL. Sure the amount p/w is in amended manual. 4500 pw in '43.

air units in reserve don't use trucks as far as I know



M60A3TTS -> RE: Trucks (2/20/2017 10:42:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

Thanks Sillyflower,

I do have a truck problem for sure.

Just one more part of the game I failed to learn until now. The question is what to do about it.

By my records, the ruskies build about 1000 trucks per turn via lend lease, but I don't know
how to predict the non-lend lease amount built. This problem don't look like it will resolve.
[image]local://upfiles/26803/43A7E184F5A44B73B6CE9C7781573714.jpg[/image]


I'm not sure that silly said you had a truck problem or was cautioning you against making build decisions that create a problem. From my standpoint, you may or may not have a problem.

On trucks, overall you should be reading the manual more. All the details are there and you'll find a certain satisfaction in figuring out some things for yourself. That said, I'll point out a couple things contained there.

21.1.6. Vehicle Production and Repair

Each vehicle factory point will produce 10 vehicles per turn at the cost of 50 tons of supplies. Vehicle production will be modified by the following percentages:

Soviet
1941- 100
1942-1945 - 55

That means 140 vehicle factories create 770 trucks per week.

21.5.2. Lend Lease Supplies and Generic Vehicles
Commencing in August 1941, the Soviet player will receive a fixed amount of supplies and generic vehicles every turn that varies by year as follows:

v1.04.28 - June 8, 2011
Changed per turn Lend Lease vehicle imports to the following:
1941 - 300
1942 - 800
1943 - 4500
1944 - 6000
1945 - 1500

So in 1942 with all 140 vehicle factories intact @ 100% production, your total weekly vehicle add is
800+770= 1,570. (Actually my log says I get 774 vehicles per week at full prod, so may need to add 4 more)

If you look at the event log under VEHICLES there are two important line items.

229 vehicles were lost this turn due to unit movement
1488 vehicles were lost this turn due to resupply operations

That is where you actually lose trucks, and this does not include repairing vehicles. So in the above example, there is a slight loss of vehicles. The loss rate will increase as the armies move and engage in more combat.

According to your note, you're close to 100% trucks in units but about 66% in the pool. For blizzard where you are advancing farther from your railhead that's not unexpected. You should check your own event log and see what your current truck burn rate is. If you are losing 1,500-2,000 net, that definitely can turn into a problem. But keep in mind the truck constraints start slowly disappearing as soon as 1943 arrives and LL kicks truck deliveries into high gear.



topeverest -> RE: Trucks (2/21/2017 11:19:15 AM)

M60A3TTS

Point well taken. I don't know the rules well enough in places despite playing into my second game. Your well founded comment takes me back to my
high school days when I had a teacher named Janssen, whose engineering calculus class I was enrolled. When a few months
into the school year she felt I wasn't living up to my potential, she had me report to her home with a handful of other
students, and we work on calculus, DQ, linear programming, and god knows what else. For most of the school year, I
spent as many as 10 hours a week there, including every Saturday. If I got out of line, she
whacked me with a ruler. No joke.

Those lessons stayed with me over many decades of professional service, including private equity, my own firm, and
executive support for Fortune 100 firms.

You remind me that those lessons apply here as much as they apply in business.

[&o]

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS


quote:

ORIGINAL: topeverest

Thanks Sillyflower,

I do have a truck problem for sure.

Just one more part of the game I failed to learn until now. The question is what to do about it.

By my records, the ruskies build about 1000 trucks per turn via lend lease, but I don't know
how to predict the non-lend lease amount built. This problem don't look like it will resolve.
[image]local://upfiles/26803/43A7E184F5A44B73B6CE9C7781573714.jpg[/image]


I'm not sure that silly said you had a truck problem or was cautioning you against making build decisions that create a problem. From my standpoint, you may or may not have a problem.

On trucks, overall you should be reading the manual more. All the details are there and you'll find a certain satisfaction in figuring out some things for yourself. That said, I'll point out a couple things contained there.

21.1.6. Vehicle Production and Repair

Each vehicle factory point will produce 10 vehicles per turn at the cost of 50 tons of supplies. Vehicle production will be modified by the following percentages:

Soviet
1941- 100
1942-1945 - 55

That means 140 vehicle factories create 770 trucks per week.

21.5.2. Lend Lease Supplies and Generic Vehicles
Commencing in August 1941, the Soviet player will receive a fixed amount of supplies and generic vehicles every turn that varies by year as follows:

v1.04.28 - June 8, 2011
Changed per turn Lend Lease vehicle imports to the following:
1941 - 300
1942 - 800
1943 - 4500
1944 - 6000
1945 - 1500

So in 1942 with all 140 vehicle factories intact @ 100% production, your total weekly vehicle add is
800+770= 1,570. (Actually my log says I get 774 vehicles per week at full prod, so may need to add 4 more)

If you look at the event log under VEHICLES there are two important line items.

229 vehicles were lost this turn due to unit movement
1488 vehicles were lost this turn due to resupply operations

That is where you actually lose trucks, and this does not include repairing vehicles. So in the above example, there is a slight loss of vehicles. The loss rate will increase as the armies move and engage in more combat.

According to your note, you're close to 100% trucks in units but about 66% in the pool. For blizzard where you are advancing farther from your railhead that's not unexpected. You should check your own event log and see what your current truck burn rate is. If you are losing 1,500-2,000 net, that definitely can turn into a problem. But keep in mind the truck constraints start slowly disappearing as soon as 1943 arrives and LL kicks truck deliveries into high gear.





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