RE: 653H Mod (Full Version)

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crispy131313 -> RE: 653H Mod (2/13/2017 6:39:05 PM)

Taranto is the location they will be launched from. These are probably the Littorio Class Battleships.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 653H Mod (2/13/2017 8:44:06 PM)

It would be nice if the Unit Names could be worked into the Production Table screen somehow. Maybe a mouse-over, or a click on the unit to display unit properties. It probably doesn't matter to many players, but to the historical OCD'ers it would be a nice feature to have in the future. [:)]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 653H Mod (2/14/2017 5:55:56 AM)

There is a text document in the zip titled Free Units [maybe not, maybe the zip was posted prior to the doc being written]. This doc tries to let the players know what is coming and when and where.

If its not there, here it is:



Iñaki Harrizabalagatar -> RE: 653H Mod (2/14/2017 1:35:37 PM)

Playing the Mod, I have taken Brussels but Belgium has not surrendered, is that WAD?



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 653H Mod (2/14/2017 3:17:10 PM)

653H doesn't change any of the stock surrender rules. So, there are a combination of things involved in Surrender in SC3 - loss of capital city, loss of units, loss of territory, loss of morale. I think it is handled really well, because we have to defeat a country in order for it to be defeated, as opposed to some other games where one thing [usually the fall of a capital] triggers surrender.
If you've taken Brussels and Belgium didn't surrender, eliminate a few more of their units and keep advancing and they will go down.



Iñaki Harrizabalagatar -> RE: 653H Mod (2/14/2017 10:38:14 PM)

HII
In the text you have posted the 10º Armata HQ arrives by Decision Event June 1940, I am already in July 1940 and no event or HQ has shown up



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 653H Mod (2/15/2017 2:44:06 AM)

Drat. The doc was compiled after the scenario version was posted. Therefore, the doc contains some references that are not included in the version that you are playing.
I can give you two choices - 1. Continue your current game knowing that the Free Unit doc that I gave you may not always apply, or 2. Restart with the current version [1.1, which I will post now].

I think you are aware of how this scenario creation process goes, so I will say that v1.1 is good to go, I hadn't posted it yet because I like to play a full game from both sides just to be as 100% sure as possible and I haven't yet finished those games.

v1.1 is now posted, use the link on Post #1.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 653H Mod (2/16/2017 7:28:33 AM)

I wanted to try and reduce Soviet effectiveness for Barbarossa, so I added this Supply script hoping that it would reduce supply values for several of the Soviet locations. [Left a bunch out of the middle as the locations don't matter here].

{
#NAME= USSR Disruption When They Go To War
#POPUP= USSR's Infrastructure Is Unprepared For War !
#IMAGE=
#SOUND=
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 1
#AI= 0
#LEVEL= 0
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 0[0]
#COUNTRY_ID= 116
#FLAG_ID= 116
#TRIGGER= 100
#SEASON_FLAG= 0
#DATE= 1939/09/01
#SOURCE_POSITION=
#DESTINATION_RESOURCE= 206,51 [10,10]
#DESTINATION_RESOURCE= 206,52 [10,10]
# Removed some for display purposes
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 116 [2] [100] [0] Russia Allied 100% Mobilized
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 45 [1] [100] [0] Germany Axis 100% Mobilized
}



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 653H Mod (2/16/2017 7:29:54 AM)

I get the Popup message on time, but the Resources don't get reduced. Can anyone tell me what I've got wrong ?

[image]local://upfiles/24850/006138FDA9714F19B55B1687138507BA.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 653H Mod (2/16/2017 7:33:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iñaki Harrizabalagatar
HII
In the text you have posted the 10º Armata HQ arrives by Decision Event June 1940, I am already in July 1940 and no event or HQ has shown up

I went thru the doc again to check for accuracy, and there is a reference in there about the UK Escort Carriers arriving at Liverpool, but this is no longer true as they have all been moved into the Purchase queue.



crispy131313 -> RE: 653H Mod (2/16/2017 5:14:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

I get the Popup message on time, but the Resources don't get reduced. Can anyone tell me what I've got wrong ?

[image]local://upfiles/24850/006138FDA9714F19B55B1687138507BA.jpg[/image]


Set the country ID to 45



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 653H Mod (2/16/2017 5:20:34 PM)

quote:

Set the country ID to 45

Darn it, that defies my perception of logic !

Thank you [&o]



BillRunacre -> RE: 653H Mod (2/20/2017 3:25:28 PM)

Yes, the USSR won't damage its own resources, but those nasty invaders will!



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Pocket Fun (2/28/2017 5:28:50 PM)

I saw the rare opportunity for a pocket, so I grabbed some screen shots to follow along.

The situation is: played historical until the fall of France, then went all out for a Sealion [which was successful] while building a defense line in the east knowing that Russia would attack me before Sealion was over [and the US would enter early]. Now attacking into Russia, with two Panzer Korps having just taken Kiev and two more having taken Dnepropetrovsk, I noticed the possible chance of creating a pocket. So I sent the Panzers off to the races and BOOM ! About eleven Soviet corps look to be in the bag.

Scene at the end of my turn:

[image]local://upfiles/24850/09424A39ED2A471492C83935C2681158.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Pocket Fun (2/28/2017 5:30:05 PM)

Beginning of my next turn, before any moves:

[image]local://upfiles/24850/6AA597B9123E4D6DA3E1DB7D0B523758.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Pocket Fun (2/28/2017 5:31:24 PM)

Scene after a round of attacks, costing the Soviets some casualties and a few units:

[image]local://upfiles/24850/05748AAF4C1643B5A71974C7CFF719C2.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Pocket Fun (2/28/2017 5:36:04 PM)

Scene after a few moves. Inside the pocket, Cherkasy and Kremenchuk are at zero supply, while Poltava is at five [and defended by a Guards Corps with Elite reinforcements]. I've moved the Dora Rail Gun up to Dnepro to hurl some huge shells at the Guards.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/75FA26C408A944F5B7EB5BE8E8AA8001.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Pocket Fun (2/28/2017 5:37:27 PM)

Beginning of the next turn. It looks like the Soviets are too weak outside of the pocket to do anything.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/FA95962BFAD547FC8F99E3B5D7799E27.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Pocket Fun (2/28/2017 5:40:58 PM)

End of turn scene. I'm chipping away everywhere but the main goal was to get Poltava to prevent all the Soviets from regaining strength from the supply stockpiles there. The Panzers did an excellent job and the 2.SS PzK was able to march into Poltava, hopefully sealing doom for the trapped Soviets.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/00AFE45720C6441C8F3241422F6A40FB.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Pocket Fun (2/28/2017 5:44:01 PM)

Next turn before any moves. The Soviets in the pocket are all at zero supply, and there is no help coming from the outside.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/DBF6383E3D7C450AAFBABD0D24057254.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Pocket Fun (2/28/2017 5:53:47 PM)

A handful of coordinated attacks and the remaining Soviets go down. Five weeks of game time, I'm not sure if it was worth it or if I could have done better by straight forward bashing. But pockets are definitely more fun.
Two differences from the stock campaign that I think probably made this possible, or a little more possible. 1) I've given all units higher spotting ranges in order to be able to have an idea of what is going on in the area, and to also avoid those unsurprising surprise attacks. 2) The Panzer Korps can move six instead of four or five in the stock campaign [I think].

[image]local://upfiles/24850/1F267FF0D9B34CD3A19191E0EDDBCC3C.jpg[/image]



BillRunacre -> RE: Pocket Fun (2/28/2017 6:44:34 PM)

Thanks for posting this all, and I'm wondering, are any of the resources within the pocket Key Resources, e.g. a Secondary Supply Center?

Only it seems odd for Poltava to be at strength 5, assuming of course that nothing else has been changed in the mod, e.g. supply is calculated via rail connections as in the official campaigns?



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Pocket Fun (2/28/2017 11:16:44 PM)

Hi Bill - I think it was because it wasn't cut off yet, as all that action was spread out across posts 75-77 [which were all three posts from the same turn]. Next turn it was at 2 [3 minus 1 for having two units adjacent], and I didn't post that because I was more excited that my panzers took the town.



Meyer1 -> RE: Pocket Fun (3/1/2017 12:48:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

A handful of coordinated attacks and the remaining Soviets go down. Five weeks of game time, I'm not sure if it was worth it or if I could have done better by straight forward bashing. But pockets are definitely more fun.
Two differences from the stock campaign that I think probably made this possible, or a little more possible. 1) I've given all units higher spotting ranges in order to be able to have an idea of what is going on in the area, and to also avoid those unsurprising surprise attacks. 2) The Panzer Korps can move six instead of four or five in the stock campaign [I think].

[image]local://upfiles/24850/1F267FF0D9B34CD3A19191E0EDDBCC3C.jpg[/image]


Interesting experiment. Five weeks doesn't seem like a lot of time, but historically units surrounded without air supply were very quickly dealt with. Units needed a lot of supply to maintain fighting capability, specially in conditions of positional warfare.
But to achieve realistic results with this supply system, which is completely wrong, it is hopeless.
Units would need food, fuel, ammunition among other things (supply parts etc) to keep fighting, and no every city should provide these.
Also, unit's supply level is the same regardless of if the unit have moved, or have engaged in combat. Among other problems.
Also, units with 0 supply have too much fight in them, but this issue I think could be fixed.

Still, a great game and I'm having lots of fun with it.



TheBattlefield -> RE: Pocket Fun (3/1/2017 8:36:52 AM)

An equally old and frequently discussed problem. Units with zero supply are more limited in their ability to move than in their combat power and the readiness and morale does not drop fast enough when the supply is insufficient. However, as a developer I would not intervene in the sensitive supply system. This would probably lead to more problems with the playability and the game balance than would solve irregularities. From my point of view a reduction in unit strength, adapted to the degree of under-supply, would be the more appropriate approach. Units in understrength will lose their fighting capability much faster and should ultimately be able to disintegrate even without combat. At the same time, the problem of "stranded" units would have been solved...











sPzAbt653 -> RE: Pocket Fun (3/1/2017 9:37:24 AM)

quote:

I would not intervene in the sensitive supply system. This would probably lead to more problems with the playability and the game balance

Well put, I agree. I haven't played too many other games, but in my limited experience I have not seen a system that covers all aspects well [V4V ?]. However, when it comes to penalties to stranded units my mind becomes filled with various attributes of country and situation. I don't think one solution fits all.



TheBattlefield -> RE: Pocket Fun (3/1/2017 10:14:52 AM)

A countdown for units in zero supply should not be unusual in other strategic games. Under what circumstances would such a regulation be inappropriate? I do not notice spontaneously a situation, which could surpass the positive effect of a noticeable restriction for cut off units in zero supply.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Pocket Fun (3/1/2017 11:05:50 AM)

Well, not in every case, but in many instances the surrounded units had to be attacked in order to whittle away their strength. Eventually they run out of ammo at which point resistance ends. However, in some cases, pockets remained eternally, until attacked. So I think that perhaps having a mechanism whereby stranded units automatically lose each turn may not always be appropriate.
As it is now, we have mechanics in place to reduce pockets without combat. Cut off from rail lines, adjacent to two or more enemy units, hit by numerous types of bombs; all reduce defenders ability to stay at 10 and 100%. I think for most players though, it is contrary to expectation to bring all you have to bear on a unit(s) and leave it at 1 or 2, only to have it go back to 5 or 8 in its turn.



Iñaki Harrizabalagatar -> RE: Pocket Fun (3/1/2017 12:09:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBattlefield
From my point of view a reduction in unit strength, adapted to the degree of under-supply, would be the more appropriate approach. Units in understrength will lose their fighting capability much faster and should ultimately be able to disintegrate even without combat. At the same time, the problem of "stranded" units would have been solved...



I think that is a good idea. The system is already in the game, as for instance when German units in Russia suffer from winter effects, do you think it could be possible to set an automatic event everytime units are at supply=0 so they suffer strength reductions?



TheBattlefield -> RE: Pocket Fun (3/1/2017 2:14:39 PM)

Unfortunately this is not possible, otherwise I would have tested such a script a long time ago on its playability. If I remember correctly, the only script with a direct unit reference might be the supply script. But yes, some additional command lines for the decision event that relates exclusively to the interactions of units would be fantastic. For a variety of reasons, I have often missed this when creating a mod. [8|]



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