Axis Strategy? (Full Version)

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Aksully -> Axis Strategy? (12/3/2016 4:07:27 PM)

Has anyone played the Axis and after defeating; Poland and France then invaded England in later 1940 before attacking Russia?

If so then how did it play out and what did Russia do?

Finally, is invading Russia before England the only viable strategy in terms of the Axis winning in Single Player mode?

Thanks in advance!



Heavensmith -> RE: Axis Strategy? (12/4/2016 10:17:29 PM)

I did it plenty of times in SC2, haven't tried it in SC3 yet[;)] If you're going for Operation Sealion, you'll have to adapt your research and production accordingly, but it used to work fine for me, against the AI at least. That's part of the beauty of this series: it's not particularly punishing or rewarding with "what if" strategies, you can play around a lot[:)]



Hartmann -> RE: Axis Strategy? (12/5/2016 12:03:42 AM)

If you go Sealion, Russia usually sits still if enough units are kept around Warsaw. Sealion cannot be done successfully in 1940 because of the need to build up and the bad weather in Autumn/Winter. So it will start in 1941. This will delay Barbarossa for a year and then it will turn out much harder. It's still worth it as there will be no Husky and no Overlord in 1944.



gib -> RE: Axis Strategy? (12/10/2016 3:00:04 PM)

I did the same as Hartman and started Operation Barbarossa in mid 42 but I made the mistake of not spending some diplomacy chits on Yugoslavia to prevent the allied coup. Taking Yugoslavia, invading Greece, and taking Egypt was too much too soon and Russia built up too much to handle and actually declared war first. It was a stalemate for a long time before I got bored and started a new game. So now I am just defending in North Africa, not invading Greece to keep the % leaning towards the allies from rising until I can build up. Russia gets alarmed enough when you land in England.



vonik -> RE: Axis Strategy? (1/26/2017 3:58:53 PM)

Against AI the strategy is very easy and works every time .

1) Destroy Poland in september 39 and move the 3 subs and battle cruisers to Atlantic to join the 2 ships there . Research amphibious fight .
2) Raid Atlantic untill the 3 ships and 4 subs get XP 1 then start to move to France (it is around march 40)
3) Destroy France latest August 40 and get the raiding force to French ports
4) Sand all infantery to eastern border . Italians, hungarians and rumanians go to Romanian/Soviet border . Buy tanks for minors .

5) This is key .
Between August 40 and March 41 provoke the UK Navy around Southhampton with now 11 strength subs . UK always sends destroyers but you kill those with your 3 or 4 11 strength ships . They will also send carriers which you easily sink with subs and Luftwaffe . Reinforce, rince , repeat .

6) Around march 1941 the UK Navy is at best half strength wile you have 6 subs and the whole Luftwaffe at the channel . Now you close the channel with 2 subs west and 2 subs east and invade with von Manstein + 2 tanks (if possible elite) .
7) Anything the UK throws against the subs will be sunk by subs and Luft . (You have bought the naval bomber and all Stukas have naval weapons) .
8) Around June 1941 UK lost London and Manchester and has no chance to recover .

9) To benefit from good weather and soviet weakness declare war to URSS (may or june 1941). With the minors and Italy in the South push basically to Dnieper and stop there . In the North take Riga and Minsk and stop at this line too .

10 . By then UK is dead and you transport all your tanks and bombers to the East Front . Your air and tank superiority is now crushing and URSS will not survive 1942 .

In summary as soon as UK lost most destroyers somewhere end 1940, the war is won regardless what the Allied try .



DaveS -> RE: Axis Strategy? (1/26/2017 8:43:31 PM)

Vonik's plan is a very good outline. Also, the preview videos have given some good insight too. 6-7 mixed units + HQ + all planes gets the job done. Blasting the UK Navy after goating it to coming down in the North Sea is always fun. Make sure to block all ports, in 42 US will try re-take.

The problem comes in when the AI buys too many corps and floods England to prevent any invasion. By spring of 41 (best time to go) sometimes there are so many corps sitting around blocking all the hexes. I found playing on Intermediate but -20% MPP's seems a little more balanced. -10% seems to add too many units. 0%, Axis doesn't stand a chance.



vonik -> RE: Axis Strategy? (1/27/2017 3:45:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL:
The problem comes in when the AI buys too many corps and floods England to prevent any invasion. By spring of 41 (best time to go) sometimes there are so many corps sitting around blocking all the hexes. I found playing on Intermediate but -20% MPP's seems a little more balanced. -10% seems to add too many units. 0%, Axis doesn't stand a chance.


Yes this is absolutely right . At my first attempt I planned to invade end 41 - start 42 in order to have all units max strength and maw elite (where applicable) .
But then I had an ugly surprise to find that whole UK was crammed with US&UK corps . Literally every free hex had a corps inside doing nothing just taking up place . They were still not much bother for the Panzer but one has to slug it out hex by hex and it takes forever .
So yes, the invasion must take place as soon as possible - first clear weather day in winter 40 or spring 41 .

Besides I found that the AI strategy looked pretty stupid . Instead of churning out destroyers and planes , UK& US were just producing totally useless corps . Once the Allied navy becomes weaker than the German one (especially destroyerless) , those useless megatons of infantery just stay sitting trapped in UK for the whole war .



bullet911 -> RE: Axis Strategy? (3/6/2017 7:21:04 PM)

I've had a successful sealion in 40" (just one fighter in scotland and belfasts garrison left to destroy) and started my russian invation in aug 41" while transporting most of my sealion invasion force stright to the eastern front ports, where am i going to have to garrison eventually in the west i cant possibly put troops(mostly garrison units) along all the west coast of england and france while using garrion units to stop partisans in russia aswell
Can anyone whos done sealion share there experiences what the AI tries to attempt once the USA and brits have built up forces



freeboy -> RE: Axis Strategy? (3/6/2017 8:14:16 PM)

you will see large fleets and an invasion



bullet911 -> RE: Axis Strategy? (3/7/2017 10:36:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

you will see large fleets and an invasion


Really! Would never of guessed that



Leadwieght -> RE: Axis Strategy? (3/8/2017 12:18:07 PM)

A major weakness of the Allied AI is its performance after a successful Sealion. In my experience, if the Axis overruns Britain, the Allied AI kinda falls apart. It sends tons of USN and RN ships to uselessly mill around the Irish Sea and meanwhile tries to run UNESCORTED LR amphibs from the US to Britain.

I've seen several posts about this and I suspect Hubert and the design team will improve the AI's post Sealion gameplan at some point, but so far it hasn't happened, I think



vonik -> RE: Axis Strategy? (3/8/2017 1:19:23 PM)

Yes I can confirm that and posted to that effect with screen shots of the Allied production queue and units' locations .
The AI stuffs USA, Canada and Iceland completely full with units and when it's done, it sends transports from America towards occupied UK which get all sunk by U boats .

Btw Sealion is by far the best German strategy to win the war already end 1940/start 1941 regardless of what happens later.
The tricky part is to kill most of the RN destroyers before Sealion but when it's done, the UK remaining Navy is sitting ducks and the UK land forces can't stop the Panzers once they crossed the Channel .



Leadwieght -> RE: Axis Strategy? (3/9/2017 12:51:16 AM)

Vonik,

Just curious: why the emphasis on killing RN destroyers for a successful Sealion? I may be missing something, but they don't seem unusually effective at protecting against amphib invasion--or rather no more effective than other naval assets would be.



vonik -> RE: Axis Strategy? (3/9/2017 9:03:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leadwieght

Vonik,

Just curious: why the emphasis on killing RN destroyers for a successful Sealion? I may be missing something, but they don't seem unusually effective at protecting against amphib invasion--or rather no more effective than other naval assets would be.


Well it's because for a German player the Allied destroyers are the single most important ennemy unit in the game :)
Kill the ennemy destroyers and you have won the game regardless of what the Allied player will do later .

The reason is that the naval combat in SC is a rock-paper-scissor game . Capital ships kill destroyers, destroyers kill subs and subs kill capital ships .
So as Axis your only solution to reach naval domination is with subs, you don't care about UK capital ships . They are no threat and you can anihilate all whenever you choose to do so regardless how many of them UK&US have .
The only threat for you are ennemy destroyers and that's why you must focus on killing all of them .
The trick here is that the few capital ships you have (which will kill the ennemy destroyers) must always be protected by subs and creatively far from the subs to avoid the risk of being attacked by ennemy capital ships .
In all my Axis games if I have a last strike left and I can sink either a carrier or a destroyer, I always choose the destroyer .

Once the destroyers are killed or at least only few of them left, you can close the channel east and west with subs to protect the invasion fleet and the UK is helpless because it can't break in and get on your transports .
The capital ships won't pass and the ennemy has no more destroyers to kill the subs to allow his capital ships to pass .
From that point on (successful destruction of ennemy destroyers) your subs can go anywhere they want, block any Harbour you choose and raid any convoy you want with no risk even if the ennemy still has 20 battle ships and 10 carriers :)

Symmetrically if you are Allied player and have avoided to have your destroyers killed while having killed (most) ennemy subs, you have won the game regardless of what the Axis player will do later .



bullet911 -> RE: Axis Strategy? (3/31/2017 10:23:26 PM)

didn't think its worth making a new thread for it
but does anyone know if the island of crete has any importance in the game, is it worth taking the time and using mpp to capture it, does the axis gain any benefit from taking it?



Seminole -> RE: Axis Strategy? (4/1/2017 3:05:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bullet912

didn't think its worth making a new thread for it
but does anyone know if the island of crete has any importance in the game, is it worth taking the time and using mpp to capture it, does the axis gain any benefit from taking it?



After I swept Egypt and Palestine the Allies used Cyprus to launch bomber attacks against me until I landed two corps and cleared the island.
Presumably the Allies could use Crete for the same kind of nuisance attacks and to fuel ships.



LCcmdr -> RE: Axis Strategy? (4/3/2017 2:54:19 PM)

I just discovered this game but have invested about 20 hours into learning it. Even on AI novice, I'm playing like a noob (or whatever). I'm having lots of fun with Axis, but in three games on the easiest settings, I get repulsed from Cairo--stinking AI gets four bombers + escorts and just chews my Germ/Ital units to shreds (how is it they always get the weather while I get the sandstorms).

I've tried Sea Lion once and was repulsed. England was just loaded with defending units. I had two med bombers and two tactical bombers killing the Brits but just unreal resupply on their part.

In my latest game, I'm into Kiev, and have made a modest push into Russian territory. I have sea lane dominance for every port in Britian, Malta, and the Baltic. Unfortunately, USA just joined the fray.

Would love some pointers on how to win this beast of a game. :)



vonik -> RE: Axis Strategy? (4/4/2017 12:39:25 PM)

The air you meet in Africa is for part the carriers . You just need to kill them .
Another point is that you should never ever Attack with the Italians alone - just wait for Rommel and get 1 or 2 more Italians armies in Libya . Then you just Pocket the AI with DAK when it advances against your positions held by the Italians .

Sea lion is the hardest thing in SC . Timing is Paramount . You must be able to invade (don't forget to get an HQ across) latest early spring 41 . It is not easy to destroy the RN so fast yet you must get the control of the Channel to close it with subs during the 3 turns when you invade and resupply . Once you got a port, it is over for the brits - they are no match for your Panzers .

As for Barbarossa, you can read just below a guide I have written about the Axis strategy in Russia .



hellraiser1973 -> RE: Axis Strategy? (4/23/2017 5:54:19 PM)

The axis strategy is the same as it was in sc1 and sc2. The Sea Lion option usually is the fastest but the AI never did well once you took England so i pretty much avoid it and go the long route (vs the AI that is, i havent played sc3 h2h yet).
The classic approach, get poland, get france, secure the north african shore, wipe out the yugos and greeks when the time comes then DoW Russia in 41, push to moscow and stalingrad, try to cut off caucasus (russia gets tons of mpps from that area), wait for the Wallies landings - north africa/france. The key to winning the game is properly timing the transfer of units for defending the west. You need to have the russians weakened and you need to be able to set up decent defensive positions in the east. Then transfer the units west, push the Wallies into the sea and it is pretty much over. You need to decide when to switch focus and when you do it to be fully committed. Don't just transfer units just to defend some areas but to do it in order to crush the Wallies. If you get bogged down you will lose even against the AI. Russians will recover and storm the eastern front while you keep trading undecisive blows with the Wallies. Dont get scared if the russians manage to break the line , just play patiently and defensively in the east while killing the Wallies off.
As i noticed from my allied campaign vs the AI, if the germans cant decisively push east and severely weaken the russian and just settle for an attrition war, they lose. The combined mpp amount generated by the allies and russians (with proper investment in IT and production) is just enormous.
Germany's main advantage is the posibility of using internal lines of communication - rails, roads etc which facilitate rapid troops redeployment across the game map. They also have extremely tough units and especially super HQs. Their weakness is the fact that they fight on two fronts so , generally one front defends and the other one attacks. If you find yourself defending on both fronts you did something wrong. Germany does not have time on her side.



kcole4001 -> RE: Axis Strategy? (7/4/2017 3:51:27 PM)

The tough thing about doing Sealion is the cost.
The timing has to be right to make sure you can finish the Brits in one season naturally, but the cost in air and naval replacements are enormous.

It really cuts into your research and purchases of new units, so the Russian offensive will:
1) be late, and
2) be much less effective until you can fill out your assault formations.

The only good thing is not having to fight over the frontier small towns, since the Soviets have retreated to better defensive positions.
You capture more territory faster than if it were on the regular timetable, so your income increases faster, but when you do run into the main line of resistance
it's a pretty heavy grind.

I managed to get a strong bridgehead in late 1940 right after defeating France and finish off the Brits early 1941, but the Russians joined the Allies then declared on me the turn after (July and August '41), while the US joined the war in March '41.
I started the Russian offensive without any TAC bombers in the east at all, but as I said the Soviets had pulled back a lot anyway so I actually made better progress on the ground than usual.

Those tough Russians defensive nuts don't crack without air power, so I think I'll grab what territory I can and wait 'til after the Russian Winter hits to send in the air force to save the extra damage inflicted by the cold.
It's October '41 and the weather will turn very soon anyway, better to save the replacements for combat damage.

We'll see if it works....



kcole4001 -> RE: Axis Strategy? (7/15/2017 1:21:09 PM)

Well, I got a Decisive Victory at the end of July 1943 after taking Stalingrad and then Leningrad in July.

Supply down the roads and rails towards the new Soviet capital was quite pitiful despite having HQs right up front, so it was a long, difficult slog.
The tanks and infantry at the sharp end were getting pretty dull, taking frequent damage and not being able to reinforce much at all.

I was chasing US LR Transports around the Atlantic with my subs and finishing them with Maritime Bombers when they neared the coast, and trying to scrounge enough units to
play "plug the dike" with the vast partisan trouble spots throughout Russia.
I also had remnant of the DAK pestering the Russians coming up through Persia, but with little real success.
One corps was enough to plug any gap, but it did keep those units away from more important fighting.

The Rumanians and Bulgarians were doing stellar work in the Rostov/Caucasus region, and the Italians mainly held down partisans, though their tanks and mechanized were helpful
in exploiting in the main battle areas.



Icier -> RE: Axis Strategy? (7/17/2017 1:18:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hartmann

If you go Sealion, Russia usually sits still if enough units are kept around Warsaw. Sealion cannot be done successfully in 1940 because of the need to build up and the bad weather in Autumn/Winter. So it will start in 1941. This will delay Barbarossa for a year and then it will turn out much harder. It's still worth it as there will be no Husky and no Overlord in 1944.


I had the opposite happen to me, according to my opponent it activated as soon as a German foot was placed on British soil.



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