How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (Full Version)

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glyphoglossus -> How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (12/8/2016 5:10:36 AM)

One way seems to be to add LCU's with AA as devices. Will building fortifications help? Is there a way to build up an LCU by adding extra AA devices?



Anachro -> RE: How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (12/8/2016 5:34:59 AM)

AA Units or units with AA devices embedded in them. Check the TOE.



Rising-Sun -> RE: How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (12/8/2016 5:56:17 AM)

Just check on the database on the equipment, then find the units that has those equipment and send it there. Upgrading the fort levels help too.



BBfanboy -> RE: How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (12/8/2016 6:24:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

Just check on the database on the equipment, then find the units that has those equipment and send it there. Upgrading the fort levels help too.

Just to be clear - the forts do not help with AA - they just help protect your troops from any kind of attack.
If you really want to help your AA, get a BF with radar on the base. It will give more warning of the raid and that seems to increase AA effectiveness.

Also note you need some rapid-fire type AA guns to use on low-level attackers and bigger AA guns (75mm and up) to take on the high fliers.



Barb -> RE: How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (12/8/2016 6:30:16 AM)

Upgrading fort levels helps a bit - they shelter your ground troops, which includes AA and BF units (they are a collateral target for base bombing) - the lower their DIS/FAT, the better they perform.
AA units helps not just by shooting down planes, but by disrupting accuracy - having several units capable of AA helps.

Also by increasing the AF/Port size above the combined threshold (it is 10?), the base will have baloon barrage automatically added. They would not shot many planes, but they tend to damage a lot of those flying lower - this may result in operational losses, crash landings, write offs and repair downtime.



BBfanboy -> RE: How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (12/8/2016 6:32:56 AM)

Something else I thought of - if you really want to get the best AA performance you can out of your units, give them good leaders - high in Land skill, Leadership and Inspiration.



HansBolter -> RE: How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (12/8/2016 11:00:09 AM)

You are still struggling to grasp this game.

It is isn't an RTS.

You don't build units.

You don't add devices to units.

You use the units the game provides.

If you need particular devices at a particular location you send units that have those devices.

Many units start or enter understrength.

Devices are produced to fill out those units.

Allies have no control over device production, it is set historically.

Japanese have control over production of devices.

The game is very complex in its implementation, but very simple in its structure.

You need to grasp and accept the structure to master the complexities of its implementation.



Rising-Sun -> RE: How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (12/8/2016 11:15:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

Just check on the database on the equipment, then find the units that has those equipment and send it there. Upgrading the fort levels help too.

Just to be clear - the forts do not help with AA - they just help protect your troops from any kind of attack.
If you really want to help your AA, get a BF with radar on the base. It will give more warning of the raid and that seems to increase AA effectiveness.

Also note you need some rapid-fire type AA guns to use on low-level attackers and bigger AA guns (75mm and up) to take on the high fliers.


No but, help from getting too much damage though. A well fortified base help a lot unless they have engineers to bring it down.



Bullwinkle58 -> RE: How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (12/8/2016 11:18:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

You are still struggling to grasp this game.

It is isn't an RTS.

You don't build units.

You don't add devices to units.

You use the units the game provides.

If you need particular devices at a particular location you send units that have those devices.

Many units start or enter understrength.

Devices are produced to fill out those units.

Allies have no control over device production, it is set historically.

Japanese have control over production of devices.

The game is very complex in its implementation, but very simple in its structure.

You need to grasp and accept the structure to master the complexities of its implementation.


This should be a sticky in the "Hey! Newbies!" section.



adarbrauner -> RE: How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (12/8/2016 12:26:03 PM)

Actually the poster may have been misleaded, and me too in part, by the "Flak" number dispalyed in the base information screen, which does not correspond to the sum number of units flak guns currently present, but usually is reduced - in the cases i am looking into now.



HansBolter -> RE: How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (12/8/2016 2:17:20 PM)

I may be wrong, but I don't think anyone has ever figured out the correlation between actual numbers of guns at the base and the flak "value" listed in the base interface.

Same is true for the flak value of a TF.



crsutton -> RE: How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (12/8/2016 2:38:16 PM)

In short, move AA units to the base. That is the best defense you can have. AA units have been greatly upgraded since the game was made and Allied AA units are pretty deadly. My experience is that even a damaged bomber will always miss. Light AA is not so important. It is the heavy AA units that do the bulk of the work. Turn off upgrades on all AA units and then selectively turn them back on for units that are in the fight. You want the newest and best guns to go to these units and not those sitting in the rear. As said, fortifications are a good idea too.



BBfanboy -> RE: How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (12/8/2016 2:58:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I may be wrong, but I don't think anyone has ever figured out the correlation between actual numbers of guns at the base and the flak "value" listed in the base interface.

Same is true for the flak value of a TF.

I think the idea was that several guns form a flak "battery" and this gets a flak value of 1, but the number of guns required does seem to vary with the gun type. What the new players need to know is that the flak value does not tell you anything about the range of the guns, so a small caliber flak battery may have a value, but not against high flying planes.

And ships do need their small caliber guns to help ward off torpedo and skip bombers.
On land, most players do not use their aircraft at low level attacks, but I do when conditions are right - so small caliber guns might be needed there too.



glyphoglossus -> RE: How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (12/8/2016 4:48:21 PM)

Thank you all, for the answers.

To summarize:

(1) units with AA devices (of varying calibers, but especially heavy) in the base location are the best and main way to build up AA defenses at a base;
(2) there is no way to add devices to a unit, these are set and fixed by the game;
(3) a commander with good land, leadership, and inspiration skills in charge of the units with AA devices helps a lot;
(4) you can control which units get the best/better AA devices by selectively turning on/off upgrades;
(5) fortifications only have a secondary effect in that the protect the AA-device equipped units from fatigue/disruption when being attacked, and thus help these units perform their primary AA task better.

To HansBolter: yes, you are right, I do not still get it. But I am trying, and I am improving, so while I might not have yet "gotten" it, I am (slowly) "getting" it. I appreciate everyone's kindness, patience, and generosity with their time and knowledge in helping me (and others in my position) with this by answering my questions. I am learning one dimension at a time, and working my way up to the full complexity. Sorry for annoyances that I might cause with my struggles in the mean time.



Chickenboy -> RE: How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (12/8/2016 4:54:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: glyphoglossus

To HansBolter: yes, you are right, I do not still get it. But I am trying, and I am improving, so while I might not have yet "gotten" it, I am (slowly) "getting" it. I appreciate everyone's kindness, patience, and generosity with their time and knowledge in helping me (and others in my position) with this by answering my questions. I am learning one dimension at a time, and working my way up to the full complexity. Sorry for annoyances that I might cause with my struggles in the mean time.


glyphglossus,

Thank you for having the guts to tackle this game. It's 'new blood' like yours that keeps this game afloat after so many years.

We 'old timers' need to show you patience and understanding while you are trying to get a grasp. Thank you for understanding that there are some true grumblers (grognards) and not taking offense.

There are many helpful people on these boards. Please do not hesitate to ask any questions, no matter how 'annoying' you may think they are.



GetAssista -> RE: How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (12/8/2016 6:24:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: glyphoglossus
(4) you can control which units get the best/better AA devices by selectively turning on/off upgrades;

Selectively turning upgrades on/off is actually one of the most important things for the Allies. Japan can leave replacements/upgrades ON and muddle through relatively fine. For Allies correct distribution of limited pools is paramount, especially in 41-43


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
There are many helpful people on these boards. Please do not hesitate to ask any questions, no matter how 'annoying' you may think they are.

Hear! Hear! :)



Macclan5 -> RE: How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (12/8/2016 6:46:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: glyphoglossus

Thank you all, for the answers.

To summarize:

(1) units with AA devices (of varying calibers, but especially heavy) in the base location are the best and main way to build up AA defenses at a base;
(2) there is no way to add devices to a unit, these are set and fixed by the game;
(3) a commander with good land, leadership, and inspiration skills in charge of the units with AA devices helps a lot;
(4) you can control which units get the best/better AA devices by selectively turning on/off upgrades;
(5) fortifications only have a secondary effect in that the protect the AA-device equipped units from fatigue/disruption when being attacked, and thus help these units perform their primary AA task better.



It does take time [8D]

I am new too. The folks here are very kind and patient; but it helps to be as precise as you can be.



The obvious miss here if I may call it that is : Combat Air Patrol.

CAP.

Have Fighters fly CAP over your base. Perhaps the most effective 'FLAK' of all as a strong CAP will not only shoot down enemy bombers but divert the actual attack.

..and that is the learning curve I too experience.

1) Recon/Recon/Recon Search/Search/Search and when you are sure what you face do it one more time.

2) Combined military tactics : Army Navy and Airforce.

You don't need a dedicated FLAK base if you have sufficient support CAP from Naval / Army air units.

3) Interlocking bases (nearby bases) providing mutual support and interlocking lines of fire.

As above combined tactic - if you have nearby support bases they can provide CAP by way of LR CAP, or sweeps of the enemy base attacking you.

A stray all alone outpost in the middle of enemy territory is highly subject to loss.

4) Neither aggressive nor passive be. Its all about "calculated risk".

You can survive aggressive forays without support but there is a cost. Is the cost worth it?

Sometimes you will have to retreat. Sometimes you will counter attack with more.

What combined assets will lead the charge and what are you prepared to loose ?

--

Remember the game is more or less 1500 turns (1 per day version); mileage differs obviously with opponent (Human verses AI) etc but in essence is still 4 years or more.

A delay for a week or even a month means very little in that perspective.

Plan, organize, route, divert, enough combined forces to make the calculated risk very very small.

(The vets here speak of "kicking in the door, not knocking).



glyphoglossus -> RE: How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (12/8/2016 7:29:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: glyphoglossus

To HansBolter: yes, you are right, I do not still get it. But I am trying, and I am improving, so while I might not have yet "gotten" it, I am (slowly) "getting" it. I appreciate everyone's kindness, patience, and generosity with their time and knowledge in helping me (and others in my position) with this by answering my questions. I am learning one dimension at a time, and working my way up to the full complexity. Sorry for annoyances that I might cause with my struggles in the mean time.


glyphglossus,

Thank you for having the guts to tackle this game. It's 'new blood' like yours that keeps this game afloat after so many years.

We 'old timers' need to show you patience and understanding while you are trying to get a grasp. Thank you for understanding that there are some true grumblers (grognards) and not taking offense.

There are many helpful people on these boards. Please do not hesitate to ask any questions, no matter how 'annoying' you may think they are.


Thanks for the kind words. ppreciate the encouragement and support from the community! And the way I look at it is that some grumbling/snark is a small price to pay for learning about this game from pro's! A



glyphoglossus -> RE: How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (12/8/2016 7:37:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: glyphoglossus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: glyphoglossus

To HansBolter: yes, you are right, I do not still get it. But I am trying, and I am improving, so while I might not have yet "gotten" it, I am (slowly) "getting" it. I appreciate everyone's kindness, patience, and generosity with their time and knowledge in helping me (and others in my position) with this by answering my questions. I am learning one dimension at a time, and working my way up to the full complexity. Sorry for annoyances that I might cause with my struggles in the mean time.


glyphglossus,

Thank you for having the guts to tackle this game. It's 'new blood' like yours that keeps this game afloat after so many years.

We 'old timers' need to show you patience and understanding while you are trying to get a grasp. Thank you for understanding that there are some true grumblers (grognards) and not taking offense.

There are many helpful people on these boards. Please do not hesitate to ask any questions, no matter how 'annoying' you may think they are.


Thanks for the kind words. ppreciate the encouragement and support from the community! And the way I look at it is that some grumbling/snark is a small price to pay for learning about this game from pro's! A


Thanks. Yes, CAP is my primary defense as well. Still digging through the forums to figure out best altitude for CAP's, how to arrange CAP in layers, etc. Apart from complementing CAP, It was actually for times where fighters are critically needed elsewhere (e.g., to cover landings or resupply missions) that I wanted to bolster the organic AA defenses. In addition, CAP is relatively expensive both in terms of planes/pilots as well as supply to fly the air missions; I was hoping to come up with a "cheaper" defense solution. In the latter cases, these might be places I just want to hold with a few troops but not build up. Particular are places that are beyond the range of most of my own land-based fighters, but within range of multiple 4E/long-range land-based bombers of the other side. The troops seem to weather the bombings pretty well, though they build up fatigue. It seems the bombings also eat up a lot of supply (not sure whether directly or because this supply is used by engineers to rebuild damage?), resulting in requiring more frequent resupply missions (which then expose transports and covering forces to the air strikes).



BBfanboy -> RE: How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (12/8/2016 9:51:03 PM)

Be aware the Japanese never get enough good AA, and the Allies are deficient for at least the first year. The Coastal AA Regiments that the US have are quite good and I think NZ and Australia have a few massive AA brigades.

Given that they are so valuable early on, try not to put your best AA units on tiny islands where they will be unlikely to survive an enemy landing. Either hold the island very strongly (Atolls cannot hold enough troops for this) or keep them on large land masses with a retreat path.



Rising-Sun -> RE: How to build up AA/Flak at a base/site? (12/9/2016 7:00:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Be aware the Japanese never get enough good AA, and the Allies are deficient for at least the first year. The Coastal AA Regiments that the US have are quite good and I think NZ and Australia have a few massive AA brigades.

Given that they are so valuable early on, try not to put your best AA units on tiny islands where they will be unlikely to survive an enemy landing. Either hold the island very strongly (Atolls cannot hold enough troops for this) or keep them on large land masses with a retreat path.


I agreed, but limited what I can do with them and wouldn't waste them on a tiny islands tho. Instead I would place them inland of Japan to protect most valuable structures. Cruisers and up would tear up those islands with heavy shelling. Wish I could add more production or focus to produce more of specific equipment.



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