Playing Italy (Full Version)

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Hartmann -> Playing Italy (12/15/2016 6:56:07 PM)

I'm about to start a new game and toying with the idea to play the Axis, but leave Germany AI controlled. Has anyone tried that yet? If so: is it worthwhile?



freeboy -> RE: Playing Italy (12/15/2016 7:18:20 PM)

I dont think you can do this can you ?



FlightOfIcarus -> RE: Playing Italy (12/15/2016 7:26:02 PM)

Yep, I´ve done it. Got trucidated by the British in Lybia after the Regia Marina sinks the bottom. Later, the AI invaded Sicily AND mainland Italy at the same time and finished me. The fact that the German AI never send the AK or any kind troops didn't help it, either. It was fun [:D]



Hartmann -> RE: Playing Italy (12/15/2016 7:51:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

I dont think you can do this can you ?



Of course you can. In the options, take the Axis and then set Germany to AI control.



Hartmann -> RE: Playing Italy (12/15/2016 7:52:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FlightOfIcarus

Yep, I´ve done it. Got trucidated by the British in Lybia after the Regia Marina sinks the bottom. Later, the AI invaded Sicily AND mainland Italy at the same time and finished me. The fact that the German AI never send the AK or any kind troops didn't help it, either. It was fun [:D]


Sounds fun, heck, maybe I'll try and see if how far I can come. [:)]



freeboy -> RE: Playing Italy (12/16/2016 3:47:49 AM)

thank you man this game just gets better and better !
Glad we will at some point have two player email etc
GREAT
and good luck playing Italy




wie201 -> RE: Playing Italy (12/16/2016 8:44:56 PM)

For the first time playing the game (not reading the rules, of course), I tried Italy with no fog of war to just see what the AI would do. My first surprise was when Germany annulled the Non-Aggression Pact with Russia and occupied all of Poland. Russia later took the Baltic states. But, as I said, as my first game I just packed the Italian Fleet into the Northern corner of the Adriatic Sea with my air force and counter-punched. Results as Of July 1941:

I am down to - 2 (10) BB, 1 (10) CA, and 1 (10) SS.
I sunk 1 (10) British DD, 1 (6) French CA, BUT 2 (10) British Carriers! (I always save the best for last, with my prolific use of parentheticals.)
I am just now being routed in Africa and, although Germany promised to help, wellllllll, still waiting.

Few notes:

The British had a (10) BB right next to my (3) Italian BB, but did not attack and move, it just left the Adriatic, allowing me to reinforce it.
Remember to look at the properties of your ships and look at Honors - it tells you exactly what it sunk.
Until the last turn in Africa, the Italians gave as well as they got, but now it looks like I am fighting the whole UK Army, including the Canadians. Damn if I didn't think they would melt.
The British are sending three (BBs), one (CA) and one (CL) to finish me off, as they will. But two carriers. MY JOB IS DONE! Good Luck Germany!



Scook_99 -> RE: Playing Italy (12/16/2016 9:09:16 PM)

I've done it too, and have won. You have to play a bit greedy, and keep in mind Germany gets to go after you do. Having at least 150 MPP makes a big difference.



Hartmann -> RE: Playing Italy (12/17/2016 11:43:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Scook_99

I've done it too, and have won. You have to play a bit greedy, and keep in mind Germany gets to go after you do. Having at least 150 MPP makes a big difference.


I would like to make sure that Italy is the one getting Greece, Yugoslavia and Egypt, but it's difficult if the Germans are AI controlled.



wie201 -> RE: Playing Italy (12/17/2016 2:00:24 PM)

Even though the Germans are AI controlled, you can still move them during your Italian turn (in fact you can control everything). I did that once to correct a particular egregious AI mistake.



Hartmann -> RE: Playing Italy (12/17/2016 6:08:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wie201

Even though the Germans are AI controlled, you can still move them during your Italian turn (in fact you can control everything). I did that once to correct a particular egregious AI mistake.


Yeah, I know I can do that, but ... you know ... "house rules": If my AI partner makes a grave mistake, so be it - after all, I left him to AI control to make my game more challenging. And if he does something to his advantage (like taking a country before me), I think I cannot blame him for that either. But maybe I'll make an exception here (still have not yet begun that game).



wie201 -> RE: Playing Italy (12/17/2016 8:36:08 PM)

Ha! I know, I stand here a bit ashamed, but (1) it was a test, and (2) the loss of three armored units, three infantry units, two air units, two arty and one HQ would have ended the game earlier than the time I had invested warranted.



Hartmann -> RE: Playing Italy (12/17/2016 8:54:57 PM)

I've just begun my Italy game. We're right before the fall of France (August 1940) and I have to say it's a very different kind of experience to play with so little MPPs available. I want to do so many things and almost can't do any of them.

I have saved up to get infantry level 1 and I also invested two chits into industry to get my MPPs up later on.

In Egypt, I dug in with Garibaldi, an army, a corps and a fighter at Tobruk. I'd want to have that army from Libya over at Tobruk, but it can only crawl (and I don't have mobility 1).

I have done nothing at all against France and instead transported the other HQ and Ariete to Albania - I don't want to get humiliated by Greece later.

I have not purchased a single unit yet! Everything is just so expensive. Maybe I should at least buy a bunch of garrisons as so many towns and ports feel "naked".

Finally, I have hidden away the complete RM at Venice, I don't even have the MPPs to reinforce a single ship. I couldn't resist to order the "Aquilea", though, which probably was a big mistake as those 200 MPPs would have been needed to do more research ...

Update (August 1941):

This is getting interesting:

- No DAK! But I'm holding my ground at Tobruk, I even isolated and destroyed one UK corps. What's helping is I got the infantry from Tripolis slogging over and also reached infantry level 1, thus I'm not lagging behind. My fighter and bomber (both upgraded to advanced aircraft 1) are also helping. Industry is at level 2.

- The war in Greece drags on, even with my headquarter, my Ariete tanks, two armies and three corps I'm not making headway. I only took Corfu thus far. Bribing Greek officials should help, but I don't see it yet.

- The war in Yugoslavia isn't finished yet, Germany seems to not be interested in taking Belgrade (they only bomb it). So I try to get one Italian army there, maybe if I'm lucky, my unit will be the one taking it.

- Stalin has declared preemptive war against the Axis, and it seems Hitler is not prepared. The Germans advance, but there are not enough troops to make it decisive this year. Many corps line the French coast for some reason, seems the Germans are waiting for an invasion (or for the Atlantic wall before committing those forces elsewhere).

Except one garrison (replacing a corps I moved from Palermo to Africa), I still have not yet purchased a single new unit, nor done anything with my navy. I really try not to fall behind in research, and replacing losses in Africa takes the rest of my monthly MPPs.

I play the Italians in a very different way than when I play the Germans also. When I play both, I usually concentrate on the Italian navy, knowing I can help the Italians whenever they need me in land battles. Here, I don't trust the AI to help me (and rightly so - no DAK!) and that's why I'm having my focus on my infantry. The fleet is kept "in being" in the Adriatic Sea. I am researching naval weapons and naval warfare, but this will be used much later only. Atm I do not even have the MPP to get the ships to full strength.



Yogol -> RE: Playing Italy (12/18/2016 2:19:23 AM)

If I would play Italy, I would simply give up on Africa (unless that is one of your house rules?) because, it's undefendable if the UK decided to move all of it's air-units to Africa: their bombers will obliterated the Italian forces because your one fighter won't be able to defend them (in fact, their fighters will even kill your fighter if you play on the highest difficulty level).

And then use those MPPs to actually take Greece: without those MPPs to build a decent force, it will be hard to get Yugoslavia (whose MPPs you really need) and VERY hard to get Greece to surrender before 1942.

The good thing that the Italians have going is that once Germany invades Russia, you can take the occupied cities one-by-one with a single Italian corps, which will raise your MPP considerably (unless that goes against one of your house-rules too).



All that being said... it IS a fun idea, playing just the Italians :)



Hartmann -> RE: Playing Italy (12/18/2016 10:56:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yogol

If I would play Italy, I would simply give up on Africa (unless that is one of your house rules?) because, it's undefendable if the UK decided to move all of it's air-units to Africa: their bombers will obliterated the Italian forces because your one fighter won't be able to defend them (in fact, their fighters will even kill your fighter if you play on the highest difficulty level).

And then use those MPPs to actually take Greece: without those MPPs to build a decent force, it will be hard to get Yugoslavia (whose MPPs you really need) and VERY hard to get Greece to surrender before 1942.

The good thing that the Italians have going is that once Germany invades Russia, you can take the occupied cities one-by-one with a single Italian corps, which will raise your MPP considerably (unless that goes against one of your house-rules too).



All that being said... it IS a fun idea, playing just the Italians :)


Yeah, it's indeed one of my (personal) house rules to roleplay the factions I play. Thus I would not just give up Africa with the Italians.

But you seem to be right: I simply can not have Africa, Greece and Yugoslavia all at the same time and Africa is most difficult with British forces as the enemy. The problem with Greece is mostly terrain. I have enough troops and a HQ, but the supply and movement is still abysmal (I don't have mobility 1).

I did not know that I can change ownership of occupied cities by just moving Italian corps there - thanks for that info! Actually, this is a great feature and it would not be against my house rules to do this in a limited way - like taking Greece and (the rest of) Yugoslavia - as this would be consistent with a roleplaying stance. In this case: imagining that Hitler and Mussolini agreed on spheres of influence where the Italians get the Eastern Med.



wie201 -> RE: Playing Italy (12/18/2016 2:12:23 PM)

Just for fun, here is the Allied invasion of Italy.

Sorry guys, I am making a mess of this. Please forgive.

Just to let you know, as of June 24, 1943, the Russian Army is as close to Berlin as the Western Allies are to Rome.




wie201 -> RE: Playing Italy (12/18/2016 2:16:34 PM)

Will research how to embed and try again. Sorry.

I do not see an option to "Click here to upload".

I see "Embed picture in post," but cannot get past that option. Tried to research to no avail. Anyone have an easy way to add/embed an image?



Meyer1 -> RE: Playing Italy (12/18/2016 3:01:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wie201

Will research how to embed and try again. Sorry.

I do not see an option to "Click here to upload".

I see "Embed picture in post," but cannot get past that option. Tried to research to no avail. Anyone have an easy way to add/embed an image?


You have to check "embed picture in post" and then click "click here to upload" which is right left to it. But if you don't see that maybe is related to the number of posts you have so far.



Meyer1 -> RE: Playing Italy (12/18/2016 3:01:57 PM)

Also keep in mind that there's a size limit on the picture.



ILCK -> RE: Playing Italy (12/18/2016 3:23:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yogol

If I would play Italy, I would simply give up on Africa (unless that is one of your house rules?) because, it's undefendable if the UK decided to move all of it's air-units to Africa: their bombers will obliterated the Italian forces because your one fighter won't be able to defend them (in fact, their fighters will even kill your fighter if you play on the highest difficulty level).

And then use those MPPs to actually take Greece: without those MPPs to build a decent force, it will be hard to get Yugoslavia (whose MPPs you really need) and VERY hard to get Greece to surrender before 1942.

The good thing that the Italians have going is that once Germany invades Russia, you can take the occupied cities one-by-one with a single Italian corps, which will raise your MPP considerably (unless that goes against one of your house-rules too).



All that being said... it IS a fun idea, playing just the Italians :)



Problem is you lose two national morale centers in Libya. Italian morale is fragile enough and losing those two is a killer.



Hartmann -> RE: Playing Italy (12/18/2016 8:44:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yogol



The good thing that the Italians have going is that once Germany invades Russia, you can take the occupied cities one-by-one with a single Italian corps, which will raise your MPP considerably (unless that goes against one of your house-rules too).





Actually ... I tried that (after the Germans took Belgrade from under my nose), but it didn't work. The Yugoslav cities stayed under German control when I visited them with Italian units.



Hartmann -> RE: Playing Italy (12/18/2016 8:56:40 PM)

This will be the first game I lose, but - strangely - not because of my Italians. Even though there's no DAK (why o why did the AI decide against it!), I am still staunchly defending Tobruk and the UK loses about one unit per turn now. It seems they begin to slacken too. I also managed to upgrade my navy and sunk a RN carrier and a battleship. It took me until June 1942, but I now conquered Greece.

Still: All is lost. For some reason the Germans ****ed up bad. I mean REAL BAD. They NEVER performed SO bad in all my games when I played the Allies. For one thing, even though Germany was poised to invade the USSR in 1941, they waited until the Soviets declared war. In 1941, the Germans advanced just to Bryansk, Brest-Litowsk and Odessa. In 1942, the Soviets counterattacked and now - in June - they are already in East Prussia!!! The Eastern front is in complete disarray. I will hurry North with my Italians from Greece, but it will be too late.

Can someone explain to me what happened here? Is missing the war entry indeed so bad for the Germans? Or is it my fault after all? Did they not declar war on the Soviets because I prevented them from taking Greece (by blocking them with my units), but took my sweet time to conquer it?

Or was the game expecting ME (the human player) to make that declaration of war to the Soviets on behalf of the Axis?




BillRunacre -> RE: Playing Italy (12/19/2016 4:39:49 PM)

Hi Hartmann

Can you send me a save turn from sometime before Germany falls please so I can take a look?

Not deploying the DAK suggests something is up, because the AI is set to always deploy them. The beating it has received makes me think the disappearing capitals problem is the issue here, as that would affect Germany's scripts and income.



Hartmann -> RE: Playing Italy (12/19/2016 7:02:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre

Hi Hartmann

Can you send me a save turn from sometime before Germany falls please so I can take a look?

Not deploying the DAK suggests something is up, because the AI is set to always deploy them. The beating it has received makes me think the disappearing capitals problem is the issue here, as that would affect Germany's scripts and income.


Sure, I'd like to send you a savegame (or a couple of them) no prob, but what do you mean by "sometime before Germany falls"? Maybe a turn from 1942 where Germany still exists, but the front is already in disarray? (Edit: This may be a dumb question, but how do I send you an email with attachments anyway - if I click on the "email" function in your profile, it seems I cannot attach anything ...)

In the meantime I'll take a look if Germany still has its capital. (Edit: Berlin is still Germany's capital.)

Btw regarding scripts, I don't know if this is of relevance: I unchecked some of the victory conditions for this game because I wanted to prevent it from ending early. I didn't change anything else, though. Difficulty=normal, all other gameplay options are default too.

Game looked normal to me until summer 1941 where Germany wouldn't declare war on the Soviets. They also strangely did not really act decisively against Yugoslavia. They only bombed Belgrade, but their units stayed away from the town, even though a panzer was stationed in Nish. Only when I've had enough and finally got an Italian unit to Belgrade, the Germans took the town from under my nose. Afterwards they left 3 panzer units against partisans in Yugoslavia! (If I'd send you a turn from where there's already Soviets flooding into Prussia, you can still see this as two of those Panzer units are still stationed there.)



BillRunacre -> RE: Playing Italy (12/19/2016 8:12:11 PM)

Hi

My email is: bill.runacre@furysoftware.com and if you can zip it or send it via WeTransfer that would be great.

In terms of what turn, whatever is the oldest save you have will probably be best. If you have lots then one from late 1940 might be best (hard to be 100% sure until I see it).

Thanks



Hartmann -> RE: Playing Italy (12/19/2016 8:27:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre

Hi

My email is: bill.runacre@furysoftware.com and if you can zip it or send it via WeTransfer that would be great.

In terms of what turn, whatever is the oldest save you have will probably be best. If you have lots then one from late 1940 might be best (hard to be 100% sure until I see it).

Thanks


Ok, I will try and find a couple of "nice" ones. [:)] Edit: Done



wie201 -> RE: Playing Italy (12/20/2016 12:39:31 PM)

Germany never sent DAK to me either, even after they promised.







BillRunacre -> RE: Playing Italy (12/20/2016 3:29:26 PM)

Thanks wie201, if you have a saved turn I'd also be interested in seeing it. I seem to have fixed Hartmann's game so hopefully I can do yours too! [:)]



wie201 -> RE: Playing Italy (12/21/2016 3:32:21 PM)

OK, game over. Hitler died and Germany held on for another two turns.

In Italy there were 61 Allied units in Northern Italy, with another at least 60 en route.

The Western Allies had nine units in Sicily (still, after invading over a year earlier), and 1 in Southern Italy.

I guess the Soviet Union had the closest unit to Rome, as it magically appeared in Rome and therefore Italy was considered conquered by them.

Love the game! Can't wait for multiplayer.

Get well Hubert and Happy Holidays to ALL!!!!!



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