Questions from a newbie (Full Version)

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Distant Worlds 1 Series



Message

blaa -> Questions from a newbie (12/23/2016 5:42:59 PM)

Hello,

I just purchased this game on steam, applied some UI mods, played the tutorials, read a little and watched some YT vids. This thread is for me to ask questions that pop up as I play, to help me learn/understand the game. I hope thatīs alright.

I chose playing pre-hyperdrive with no automation, to learn from the ground up. [:)]

So letīs start from the very beginning:

- When I built my first space-port it warned me that I did not have enough of several resources. I thought I had to use pirate smugglers but decided to just give the build order and see what happens. Well the thing still got built, so what gives? How can it be built if I didnīt have the resources? Does lack of resource simply slow production or something?

Edit: F1 answered some of my questions [:D]




Retreat1970 -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/23/2016 7:27:30 PM)

Your homeworld has all of the resources you need to get started.



blaa -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/23/2016 8:15:24 PM)

Thanks.

Whatīs the optimal ratio of plants vs yards for spaceports?
The pre-set designs seem to contradict themselves.
Imo this game is way too obscure with this information, all you find on the net is speculation and people testing it and coming to different conclusions.

It should at least provide enough info so you can weigh the benefits vs the costs but I donīt see anything like that.
I can build 5 yards and 5 of each plants or 15 yards and 1 of each plants but where is any sort of information of how this effects my spaceport? If Iīm blind then sorry but seems there is no feedback at all.




stuart3 -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/23/2016 9:06:06 PM)

quote:

Whatīs the optimal ratio of plants vs yards for spaceports?


multiples of one weapons plant, one energy plant, one high tech plant, and three construction yards.

quote:

Imo this game is way too obscure with this information, all you find on the net is speculation and people testing it and coming to different conclusions.


There are far too many settings that can be altered to suit individual tastes for there to be anything as simple as a uniformly optimal design for anything. What you find on the net is useful, but it may have been designed by someone playing with different parameters to the ones you are using, so treat them as being for the guidance of wise men, etc, etc.

If you are designing your own ships and bases, then when you have selected a component click on the "Show Component Guide" bar under the list of components. This will bring up a small component guide box in the middle of the screen. Click on the yellow "Learn about (component)" link for additional useful information.

quote:

When I built my first space-port it warned me that I did not have enough of several resources


That's not strictly accurate. As Retreat said, your homeworld has a lot of resources. The warnings you received were telling you that you are not yet mining these resources in order to replenish your homeworld's stocks. Don't worry, you will have plenty of time to locate resources and build the necessary mining stations.



Retreat1970 -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/23/2016 9:22:27 PM)

quote:

Whatīs the optimal ratio of plants vs yards for spaceports?


I've done 1:50. I don't know if that's efficient though. Stuart3's formula is probably better.



RemoteLeg -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/23/2016 10:51:27 PM)

Yes, most people agree that the Galactopedia help screen could do with some more work. Fortunately you have us to assist.

quote:

When I built my first space-port it warned me that I did not have enough of several resources.

What it's saying is that you do not have enough of the required resources on hand at the moment. Freighters may be inbound with supplies and mining bases will continue to mine as you construct. It's important to work out if you might be getting more in the future or if you simply have no supplies of that resource at all.
Familiarize yourself with the Expansion Planner screen to get this information.

quote:

Whatīs the optimal ratio of plants vs yards for spaceports?

Think of it this way:
The plants use raw materials to build components of their specific type (energy, weapons, high-tech). Each plant only builds one component at a time.
The construction yard assembles these components into a ship. Look at your ship design to see what components are required to build it.
A construction yard can build one ship at a time, so you want multiples of these if you want your space port to build multiple ships in parallel.

Personally I usually go with one of each plant type per construction yard. My small space port has 3 construction yards so it has 9 plants (3 of each type). My large space ports can have around 10 construction yards so they have more plants.
It's not that hard to balance it out. You don't want a lack of plants to cause bottlenecks that mean your construction yard is sitting idle waiting for a component to be manufactured. Equally you don't want plants sitting idle with nothing to do.
Side note: I ran a few timing tests and it doesn't make a huge difference if you're out by a few plants. Honestly, it's not worth losing any sleep over.

Remember that your constructor ships never work on more than one ship/base at a time.



stuart3 -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/23/2016 11:01:04 PM)

quote:

I've done 1:50. I don't know if that's efficient though. Stuart3's formula is probably better.


That ratio came straight out of the Galactopedia -

quote:

Manufacturers produce components from resources. They are closely related to construction yards, which take components and assemble them into ships or bases.

Manufacturers are specialized into three industry types: Energy, HighTech, Weapons.

When designing a space port or construction ship you should place one manufacturer of each industry type (Energy, HighTech, Weapons) with every 3 construction yards (i.e. 3 Manufacturers per 3 Construction Yards). This ratio will ensure that components are manufactured at an adequate pace to keep construction yards supplied.





Aeson -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/24/2016 1:23:32 AM)

quote:

That ratio came straight out of the Galactopedia -

I have not personally tested this, but one poster who tested it suggests that one of each type of plant is enough for 30 construction yards to operate at more or less full efficiency (the tests were however conducted in an older version of the game). The discussion can be found here (starting around post 16 or so) and here.

Also, while it's true that that information is in the Galactopedia, I would caution you that the Galactopedia information is not always up to date or accurate.

Edit: A quick test at tech level 7 using two Star Bases, one with 30 construction yards and 1 of each plant and the other having 30 construction yards and 10 of each plant, suggests that there is no significant difference in construction rate between the two setups.



blaa -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/24/2016 7:12:51 AM)

Thanks guys. For now Iīll treat plants as commerce centers, a one time buy.

remoteleg: seems like you build too many plants [:'(], also when I constructed the spaceport it was in the pre-hyperdrive age, there are no freighters inbound at that time since none exist to begin with.
so frankly it still does not make sense. it warned me about several resources, 4 or 5, and my home planet did not mine all of them.
I will take a closer look at the warning next time I start a game, maybe I got the wording wrong.



stuart3 -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/24/2016 8:14:35 AM)

quote:

A quick test at tech level 7 using two Star Bases, one with 30 construction yards and 1 of each plant and the other having 30 construction yards and 10 of each plant, suggests that there is no significant difference in construction rate between the two setups.


A pity. More advice that I will probably have to ignore just so that I can feel that the AI is playing something like the same game as me. [:)]



blaa -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/24/2016 2:35:34 PM)

Another question: Is there a way to see if a mining station generates more income than it costs to maintain?


Also what would happen if I gave one of my mining stations to pirates, would I still benefit from trading in some way? [:D]



Aeson -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/24/2016 3:33:12 PM)

quote:

Do I pay the maintenance for mining stations I build? Or the private sector?

The private sector pays the construction and maintenance costs of mining and gas mining stations.

quote:

Also what would happen if I gave one of my mining stations to pirates, would I still benefit from trading in some way?

In theory, yes, you could give a mining station to a pirate faction and still get resources from it through trade. Freighters of any faction can buy and sell resources at any station or colony in the game, as long as the freighters are not recognized as belonging to an actively hostile faction.

I will caution you, however, that trading with a pirate faction funnels money to that faction, which can have unfortunate consequences. If you do gift a mining station to a pirate faction, I would suggest you give it to a smuggler-type faction as these tend to be the least aggressive (the faction type can be determined by looking at the faction leader image; the black-armored knight-ish guy is for raiders, the red-and-gold armored space suit is for mercenaries, and the more or less traditional space suit is for smugglers, and if that's not an adequate description, go set up a game as a pirate faction and look at the pictures associated with each pirate playstyle). Of course, if the station is unprofitable then it could alternatively drain the pirate faction's treasury, which might prove beneficial.

quote:

Another question: Is there a way to see if a mining station generates more income than it costs to maintain?

There is no transaction history of which I am aware, if that's what you're asking. You can in theory compute what the income from a mining station should be, but it'd be kind of a lot of work.

One way you could go about this:
- Record the in-game date and the resources of types mined by the station which are stored at the station at that time.
- Compute the extraction rate of resources as floor([resource richness expressed as a decimal] * min(10, [rated extraction rate]) * 10) for mineral and luxury resources or as floor([resource richness expressed as a decimal] * min(40, [rated extraction rate]) * 10) for gas resources, where floor(x) is the function which returns the largest integer n such that n <= x (i.e. round down). This gives you the quantity of resources produced by a mine over 6 in-game days (at normal game speed, this is equivalent to 10 seconds of real time).
- Wait a while, for instance several in-game years. (Note - do not develop better mining components while you're doing this, as techs which improve existing components are applied without need for a retrofit with the result that your mine's extraction rate, unless already capped, will change mid-test.)
- Compute how many resources should be in the mine's cargo bay at the end of this period, subtract the actual cargo held, and multiply by the resource value as given in the expansion planner. That's an estimate of the gross income from the mine over the period (note that resource costs fluctuate over time; actual gross income may differ).
- Multiply the calculated gross income by the percentage listed on the Commerce Center to get the share that in theory goes to the state treasury.

Another way:
- Watch the mine and wait for freighters to dock.
- Check and record the quantity and type of resources picked up by the freighter, and check the expansion planner for resource value at that time.
- Using these numbers, compute the value of the transaction.
- Optionally, multiply this by the percentage on the Commerce Center to get the state's share.

Do this for some period of time, say an in-game year or two, and then sum up the transaction values and divide the sum by the time period over which you've monitored transactions to get the time-average income of the mining station.


Be advised that I'm not entirely certain that the percentage of transaction value listed on the Commerce Center actually ends up going into the state treasury when freighters purchase resources from a mining station. Freighters rarely pick up more than perhaps a few thousand resource units at once and the cost of standard resources doesn't exceed 3.3 credits per unit or so, which means that the share that the state theoretically gets when a freighter picks up resources at a mining station is very unlikely to exceed 1000 credits and is likely to be significantly lower than that (as in, it could very easily be on the order of just a few tens of credits - for example, if the value of steel is 0.833 credits/unit and you have a commerce center which takes 4% of the total transaction value for the state, then the state's income from a freighter picking up a load of 1000 units of steel is only ~33 credits). With so little money theoretically going into the state treasury with each transaction and with the sum in the state treasury in the main screen only being updated every so often (and the sum in the economy panel being rounded) it is very difficult to determine what happens to the money. Note that if this income does go to the state treasury, it will be listed as 'bonus' income.

Also, a warning: Especially early in the game, hyperdrives are slow relative to the size of a sector. Don't put your mines too far from where you need the resources or you could be looking at very long travel times for your freighters. Even a fully-upgraded Torrent Drive takes about 36 in-game days (59 seconds real time at normal game speed) to complete a 1-sector jump, after accounting for jump initiation time - and that's just one leg of the round trip. With an unupgraded Gerax Hyperdrive, that number nearly triples (Warp Bubble Generators are ludicrously slow by comparison even to the unupgraded Gerax Hyperdrive, taking roughly 606 in-game days, or 1018 seconds real time at normal game speed, to complete a 1-sector jump). The longer your freighters spend in hyperspace, the fewer runs they can make in a given time period, the fewer resources move around, and the more time it takes the freighter force to respond to and ultimately clear up resource shortages.



RemoteLeg -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/24/2016 5:58:59 PM)

Look on the bottom right corner of the Empire Summary screen to see what you're paying in maintenance for each ship type, both private and public sector. There you'll see that the private sector pays maintenance on mining stations.
Adding a commerce center to a mining station generates trade income, but I don't know how to get a breakdown of those figures for each station.

I don't know what happens when you give a mining station to the pirates because I loathe them and the only thing I ever give them is grief. [:D]



blaa -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/25/2016 7:32:43 AM)

Thanks for the great post Aeson, some very useful insights.[&o]

RemoteLeg: Probably a wise stance towards piracy [:D]
Those tutorial videos of yours are great, your fuel tutorial really helped me.



blaa -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/25/2016 9:30:27 AM)

Can someone explain the "total empire research potential"?

Please have a look at my screen.
I thought maybe it would be 371k dividey by 3 = ~123k available per field, then apply boni.
However if you look at my weapons research for example the output is only 129k including boni.
However I get +32% boni from leader and scientists, so my math canīt be right(123k +32% would be much more than 129k).

How does the total potential work?



Bingeling -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/25/2016 10:46:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blaa

Can someone explain the "total empire research potential"?

Please have a look at my screen.
I thought maybe it would be 371k dividey by 3 = ~123k available per field, then apply boni.
However if you look at my weapons research for example the output is only 129k including boni.
However I get +32% boni from leader and scientists, so my math canīt be right(123k +32% would be much more than 129k).

How does the total potential work?

Step one, look at the TERP with purple background on the right 371. It depends on population, economy that kind of stuff (maybe you find what if you search).

To have full research speed, the Total Research Capacities added together must match this number. That is the number on normal background below each line. 150+360+360 is way more than 371 so you have full speed, and could cut some maintenance by removing labs.

You unmodified output is scaled according to this distribution. The TERP is the max output. You need to multiply each output with the factor you are over TERP. I get 2.345 for that factor.

So your unmodified output with TERP taken into account is not 150+360+360, but 64, 154, 154 (rounded).

Multiply for 1.2*1.25 for each of them for being republic and kiadian.

I get 93, 222, 222 as outputs.

Multiply weapons with 1.1*1.22 for leader and research lab/scientist.
Multiply energy with 1,21 for research lab/scientist.
Multipy hightech with 1,44 for research lab/scientist.

And I get 129, 279, 334 compared to 129, 278, 334 so I rounded differently or made a small typo.



blaa -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/25/2016 11:18:11 AM)

Ok, I would never have figured that approach out by myself. Thanks!
I didnīt even understand that my research capacity actually influences the percentage of
output each field receives. I thought it would always divide equally unless max output is reached for a field.
And purely by accident it was weighed pretty decently imo, with weapons being of lower priority. [:D]
But the ingame presentation is very questionable imo.
At least it ensures some community interaction with confused noobs like me. [:'(]



Bingeling -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/25/2016 12:44:02 PM)

It is not easy to figure out all of that by yourself, no.

With default designs and quite a few spaceports, one ends up with way more than needed labs. A good thing about keeping the lab count at the lower end, is that it opens for tweaking the output according to need. That is kind of hard to do if the lab outputs are in their thousands.



Bingeling -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/25/2016 1:11:40 PM)

Btw, the missing piece of info.

The location bonus of each branch, is the best site with added site and scientist bonus. That contains a lab of the same type.

So if you have for weapon research:

1 scientist at the capital of 20 skill and no location bonus.
1 energy research station at a bonus site with 15 bonus.

Your weapon bonus is 20, since the capital spaceport is your best site. If you move the scientist to the research station, the bonus is 35. So if you stack your scientists at the spaceport for safe keeping, research sites hardly matter. There is a single bonus location around, though, that gives a massive bonus (100?) if colonized.



Retreat1970 -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/25/2016 3:47:26 PM)

I think he should go through the guide to guides. It's in the stickie section.



blaa -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/26/2016 5:10:46 PM)

Is it possible to retrofit a relic ship?
I found one with sweet 800 fire power when my current designs give me ~70, but it has no warp drive.
I selected the shipīs design template, chose manually update and added a warp drive, however, the retrofit button is greyed out.
I guess itīs because the ship has tech I didnīt research yet?! Any way to force a warp drive on that thing?



Bingeling -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/26/2016 8:39:58 PM)

You should be able to retrofit it, but only to your own design. That is, with the tech you got available. So it is no point in doing that.

If it is in your home system, I suggest you retire it for tech. Also, I find it odd that it is 800 fire power, as the non-warp ship in a pre-warp start is quite a bit less powerful than that. And any other ship found should have warp drive.



blaa -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/27/2016 12:05:14 AM)

Well I play with Ositoīs Research Unleashed 2.2, maybe because of that? It has Nuclear Missiles on board.
I wonder if that mod also influences pirate numbers... I play on a huge map with I think 400 stars and 7 AI empires. So far I encountered 22
pirate factions [X(] Well it doesnīt get boring thatīs for sure. Itīs like being harassed by a constant stream of zerglings [:D] Destroyed 349 ships, lost 4 [8|]



Shogouki -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/27/2016 12:30:40 AM)


quote:

Itīs like being harassed by a constant stream of zerglings [:D] Destroyed 349 ships, lost 4 [8|]


If you haven't encountered a legendary pirate faction yet you may be in for a surprise. [:D]



blaa -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/28/2016 5:08:56 PM)

How do I know they are legendary?
Well one of them has 45k military with ~300 ships when I have 6k with 40 ships. Donīt tell me it gets worse [:D]



blaa -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/28/2016 5:55:39 PM)

Ok guys two things I canīt wrap my head around:

1a:

I thought I pretty much understood refueling, however this one I do not get:

I want 5 escorts to refuel. They have a fuel capacity of 1000 and are in my home sector.
My home sector also has 2 gas mining stations with Caslon, which my engines use as fuel(I checked!).
If I look at the inventory of the gas mining stations both have around 16 000 Caslon in their inventory.
When I order my escorts to refuel via fleet screen they want to go to a colony that is 4 sectors away. [:@]
Why? My other fleets donīt refuel atm so itīs not reserved for them either.


1b:
Also I am flabbergasted [8|] that with a revenue of 625k and 2 gas mining stations that mine fuel in itīs vicinity my home planet does not manage to have a good supply of a resource as basic as fuel.
I have to rely on pirate smuggling missions? Why? I have several open trade agreements and mutual defense pacts and I canīt even trade for enough fuel?

2:

I have turned automation off, however I automate all ships/fleets that I want for defense duty via ship screen since they do a better job than I could manually
with so much going on.
Itīs perfect... besides one "tiny" detail I noticed: My hangars allow for 6 fighters. However when my ships get built they have 3 fighters as they spawn.
If I build 2 hangars on a ship it spawns with only 6 fighters... out of 12! And the AI does nothing about it, either. I would have to manually select every ship and order it to build more fighters.
Is this maybe a mod issue? I do use Research Unleashed... can anybody confirm this is not a vanilla issue? Or am I missing something else here?

Thanks[&o]




Retreat1970 -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/28/2016 11:44:02 PM)

quote:

3 fighters as they spawn


3 fighters 3 bombers = 6. Have to research fighters and bombers.
The RU mod doesn't change bay capacity I don't think.



Shogouki -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/29/2016 12:47:36 AM)

1a: How many docking bays do your gas mining stations have? Also is any of that caslon that they have reserved?

1b: Do you have any allies that use your stations for refueling? I've noticed that in my games where I have alliances or military refueling rights given to others they very often use my stations to refuel large fleets. One thing that I have used for making nice refueling points for my fleets is a large nebula based star base with lots of docking ports, gas extractors, and cargo space so that my large fleets can all dock there and refuel.

2: Do you have equally advanced bombers and fighters at the moment?



blaa -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/29/2016 10:39:18 AM)

1a: I build my gas stations with 50 docking bays and I think 4 extractors. How do I know if the Caslon is reserved?

1b: Hmm yes there were quite a few exploration ships hanging around one of the gas stations. I guess there is no way to stop that short of ending the alliances?
I wish the game was more in-depth in those areas, Iīd really like to stop anybody from using my fuel and stop fuel exports.

2: I focused on fighters, I didnīt even research bombers. I will if it stops the ships from spawning with half empty hangars.
Though it would be better if they always used their capacity with the available ships. I prefer rushing fighter research to splitting it between fighters and bombers.



Retreat1970 -> RE: Questions from a newbie (12/29/2016 3:40:37 PM)

quote:

I focused on fighters, I didnīt even research bombers. I will if it stops the ships from spawning with half empty hangars.
Though it would be better if they always used their capacity with the available ships. I prefer rushing fighter research to splitting it between fighters and bombers.


I didn't explain myself clearly. Half of a hanger bay capacity is always fighters. The other half always bombers. You will never have all fighters or all bombers. It's always half and half.



Page: [1] 2   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI
0.9355469