Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (Full Version)

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Fer_Cabo -> Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (1/16/2017 12:26:27 PM)

Several options for the same Weapon in terms of different "ROF:"

What's the meaning & purpose? Could not find it googling around nor in the Game Manual or Forums.

Thanks!



mikmykWS -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (1/16/2017 12:38:44 PM)

Rate of Fire. We use it to determine the rate of fire and speed at which weapons transfer (magazine to mount) in seconds.

Mike



Chris21wen -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (1/16/2017 5:34:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Rate of Fire. We use it to determine the rate of fire and speed at which weapons transfer (magazine to mount) in seconds.

Mike


Mike

I think he was referring to this. I also wondered why it there.


[image]local://upfiles/5388/F1BD204FD61747EC9F98A441F735701B.jpg[/image]



Fer_Cabo -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (1/16/2017 5:39:48 PM)

Right Chris, that's exactly what i was asking about.

1) Meaning of the paired numbers (X/Y)

and

2) Meaning of "ROF" and its values ROF:1, ROF:5, etc.

All of them for the same weapon (AS-7, AS-14, etc)

Thanks a lot!



mikmykWS -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (1/16/2017 6:15:18 PM)

Answers the same. Rate of Fire (RoF). Rate in seconds weapons are fired or loaded.

Mike



Fer_Cabo -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (1/17/2017 9:48:12 AM)

So, for instance: Taking ID Number 653 (AS-9 Kyle [Kh-28] (2/2) ROF:5 means that two pairs of these weapon can be loaded in a plane's loadout in 2x2x5 seconds = 20 seconds ¿?¿?

Looks pretty quick even for experienced and numerous ground crews...



mikmykWS -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (1/17/2017 10:18:08 AM)

Aircraft loading doesn't use the value and accounts for planning etc. Try and load an aircraft in the game and you'll see.

In this case a weapons record with a ROF of 5 is used for firing which makes more sense. DB editors try and build records that match the function of what's going on. Take a look at magazines for more examples of things used for mag ROF.

Mike




magi -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (1/18/2017 7:26:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Answers the same. Rate of Fire (RoF). Rate in seconds weapons are fired or loaded.

Mike

hahahaha........



I1066 -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (1/22/2017 2:21:25 PM)

Perhaps someone could write a bog post or something and elaborate on magazines, weapons and other stuff relevant to consider when setting these things up in a scenario, and what the different properties mean and when they are used and in which way they are used. And, for example, how you you figure out which weapons/magazines work with which platforms. Or how you work with mounts that can fire different ammunition (weapons?) and have their internal "magazine", and how this relates external magazines.



mikmykWS -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (1/22/2017 5:04:59 PM)

Sounds great! Thanks for volunteering.

Mike



I1066 -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (1/22/2017 5:35:56 PM)

I'm really clueless about this, so perhaps better handled by someone who knows what he is talking about. Perhaps whoever wrote the really good blog about mines could be convinced to do another one on magazines, weapon and stuff? [:)]



mikmykWS -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (1/22/2017 5:43:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: I1066

I'm really clueless about this, so perhaps better handled by someone who knows what he is talking about. Perhaps whoever wrote the really good blog about mines could be convinced to do another one on magazines, weapon and stuff? [:)]


Oh I see you want me to do it.

Will add to our update list for the manual etc.

Thanks!

Mike



nukkxx5058 -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (2/18/2022 8:51:35 PM)

Do we know more about this ?
I'm trying to understand this topic and to decide which ammmunition I will put in my ammo truck to replenish some Infantry unit but no idea which one I should pick. Some will work, like ROF:2 and ROF:15 but not ROF:1
I'm puzzled ...


[image]local://upfiles/15390/E38E4B5013CF4D868046880B60027633.jpg[/image]



KnightHawk75 -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (2/18/2022 11:26:24 PM)

quote:

but not ROF:1

idk they seem to work fine for me, never ran into a case were they didn't....where the culprit wasn't the separate ROF on the hosting mount itself vs the weapon record.



nukkxx5058 -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (2/19/2022 1:58:08 PM)

I created a small scen to illustrate.
Blue side has one infantry I want to replenish (select provider manually) after it finishes to shoot at red infantry units. I have 3 trucks, each loaded with different ROF version of 7.62mm stuff. (identified by truck name)
They refuse to replenish from ROF:1 truck (manual replenishment) and it gives a message "failed. No suitable fuel or stores to transfer".
It's working from ROF:2 and ROF:15
Would be happy to understand why ...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xcabj2zdgcvshng/ROF.scen?dl=0

BTW, what a GREAT feature. I love it ;-) !!!



BDukes -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (2/19/2022 9:33:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx5058

I created a small scen to illustrate.
Blue side has one infantry I want to replenish (select provider manually) after it finishes to shoot at red infantry units. I have 3 trucks, each loaded with different ROF version of 7.62mm stuff. (identified by truck name)
They refuse to replenish from ROF:1 truck (manual replenishment) and it gives a message "failed. No suitable fuel or stores to transfer".
It's working from ROF:2 and ROF:15
Would be happy to understand why ...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xcabj2zdgcvshng/ROF.scen?dl=0

BTW, what a GREAT feature. I love it ;-) !!!

H

Not sure if there has been a change but historically to replenish land units you group them with an ammo holding unit.

Mike



nukkxx5058 -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (2/19/2022 9:48:11 PM)

I didn't know about grouping units to replenish them. Sounds cool.
I'm using the manual replenishment and it works well.

I'm just confused with the meaning of the numbers in the editor when loading stuff in a magazine (for example in an ammo truck). Especially after noticing that same stuff but with different ROF won't work (ie. unit won't repelnish with different ROF value.

What is "name_of_the_munition - (XX/YY) ROF:ZZ (same question as the original question of this thread in fact)
What do the XX/YY/ZZ numbers mean and how do I know which one I need to load in the truck ?



BDukes -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (2/19/2022 11:14:01 PM)

Think its like this.

XX: current number of weapons in the mag weapons record
YY: total number of weapons the mag weapons record can store
ZZ: Seconds to transfer from magazine to mount. I don't know if this translates to somebody elses mount. Dev will need to clarify. This is not a huge detail though if its seconds.[8D]

What's important is:
Making sure you have more than 0 in XX in the source.
Making sure you've got the source and destination weapons records match. So for example you pick the correct 30mm cannon round type.

If you know database stuff you can look in SQL lite editor to match if you're unsure. You can also use Lua to pull I'm sure. Most of the time the naming is distinct enough to know the difference.

If you're having a problem with something specific. Just post an example and I'll look and see. This will save time and back and forth[8D]

Mike




KnightHawk75 -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (2/19/2022 11:43:33 PM)

quote:

What is "name_of_the_munition - (XX/YY) ROF:ZZ (same question as the original question of this thread in fact)


XX == how many weapon units are included in this weapon record 2/4 means there is 4 capacity and 2 munitions included by default.
YY == capacity for the weapon record 2/4 there are 2 munitions, but you could change it up to 4 (or it will re-fill up to 4).
ZZ == rate of fire for the weapon record, this is the fastest rate at which this weapon record can fire.

You know what to add based entirely on what it is you want added to whatever it is you are adding it too.

Replenish to work needs the underlying weaponid's to match.

In the sample scene:
- Unit Inf has a 7.62 MG mount (#357) which has rof of 1, capacity 20, can hot-reload, and presently has 0 munitions of wpnid: #1415. No mag is present.   to see: print(ScenEdit_GetUnit({name='Inf', guid='4YWDWP-0HMFJMGE9U7V3'}).mounts);
- Unit Rof:1 has generic mag 1185 (10k cap) with a bunch of weapon records 7.62mm MG 300/300 BUT these contains wpnid: #626.   to see: print(ScenEdit_GetUnit({name='ROF:1', guid='4YWDWP-0HMFJMGE9V9NU'}).magazines)
- Unit Rof:2 has generic mag 1185 (10k cap) with a bunch of weapon records 7.62mm MG 145/150 containing wpnid: #1415.   to see: print(ScenEdit_GetUnit({name='ROF:1', guid='4YWDWP-0HMFJMGE9V9NU'}).magazines)

So in the scene it makes perfect sense that unit:rof1 can't replenish 'Inf' because it doesn't have the specific weapons to match unit Inf, not because the rof is different. Where as the weapon records put into the mag on unit Rof:2 can, because those records contain matching munitions of 1415.

How do you know the weapon id's in each weapon record when going to select them from the dialog? You don't atm, you either know from experience, look it up in the raw database ahead of time, or trial and error with some lua print()s to make sure the wpn_dbid fields match up.
It would be nice if " - Wpnid: #xxxxx" was included in the dialog in addition to " - ROF: XXX" for weapon record selection.
It's generally only confusing when there are multiple wpn records and mounts named nearly the same making it hard to tell them apart since the comment field isn't displayed just the name, 7.62mm is a good example of that.

Hope that helps clear this up.



nukkxx5058 -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (2/20/2022 9:33:37 AM)

Thank you ! Yes, it definitely helps !

And yes, it's a pity that Wpnid isn't included in the dialog when adding weapons. But the problem shouldn't occur too often because I never had it before. At least let's hope it is the case.
But your message was very useful ! Thanks again for investigating this.

But there are still more unknows, like e.g. how do you know how many of these 7.62 you can load in the truck's magazine (the maximum amount) ? It says magazine capacity is 10.000 for generic magazine but what does it mean exactly ? What is the unit of measure? Because when I'm trying to add these 300/300 packs of 7.62, I can add much more than 33 of them (33*300 = 9.900 < 10.000). Like 50+ of them will fit in the truck. Seems bottomless ...

And also I'm trying to have a logistic chain with trucks replenishing from a ammo bunker when empty but it doesn't seem to work. When using manual replenish command, the truck is normally heading toward the bunker but ammunition won't transfer to the truck.
And when I try to replenish the infantry unit directly from the bunker (manual replenishment, clicking on the bunker) it initially goes toward the bunker and after a while it changes and moves toward the truck instead.

Any idea ?

Sorry to be a pain ... [:D]



BDukes -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (2/20/2022 12:17:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx5058

Thank you ! Yes, it definitely helps !

And yes, it's a pity that Wpnid isn't included in the dialog when adding weapons. But the problem shouldn't occur too often because I never had it before. At least let's hope it is the case.
But your message was very useful ! Thanks again for investigating this.

But there are still more unknows, like e.g. how do you know how many of these 7.62 you can load in the truck's magazine (the maximum amount) ? It says magazine capacity is 10.000 for generic magazine but what does it mean exactly ? What is the unit of measure? Because when I'm trying to add these 300/300 packs of 7.62, I can add much more than 33 of them (33*300 = 9.900 < 10.000). Like 50+ of them will fit in the truck. Seems bottomless ...

And also I'm trying to have a logistic chain with trucks replenishing from a ammo bunker when empty but it doesn't seem to work. When using manual replenish command, the truck is normally heading toward the bunker but ammunition won't transfer to the truck.
And when I try to replenish the infantry unit directly from the bunker (manual replenishment, clicking on the bunker) it initially goes toward the bunker and after a while it changes and moves toward the truck instead.

Any idea ?

Sorry to be a pain ... [:D]



Ok typically its a a weapons count but for automatic weapons are a little different. Each unit is a burst. So its not 300 bullets but 300 bursts Which if you look at the numbers makes a little more sense.

Mike





KnightHawk75 -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (2/20/2022 3:16:50 PM)

quote:

It says magazine capacity is 10.000 for generic magazine but what does it mean exactly ?


What ever is in col XX in the weapon records in total contained in a magazine.
The same applies to mount capacity, though one-time overages are permitted during addition, but once below that amount it will be enforced, I only mention the later for completeness.

quote:

Seems bottomless ...

artificially limiting the number of mags on unit would just remove flexibility, and as for having to add X number of the same to get a number you want.
That's when those 10000/10000 0/10000 and [button:'give me a 10k version of the selected item] records comes in real handy, though used with care as it can affect unrep distribution expectations. Munition counts are relative to the system as BDukes highlighted.

quote:

And also I'm trying to have a logistic chain with trucks replenishing from a ammo bunker when empty but it doesn't seem to work. When using manual replenish command, the truck is normally heading toward the bunker but ammunition won't transfer to the truck.
And when I try to replenish the infantry unit directly from the bunker (manual replenishment, clicking on the bunker) it initially goes toward the bunker and after a while it changes and moves toward the truck instead.

I'd have to look at the specifics to really comment, off top my head I'd say for the latter maybe the infantry is re-pathing to a closer unit that has at least some matching munitions maybe.




nukkxx5058 -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (2/21/2022 5:19:59 AM)

What do you mean by "though used with care as it can affect unrep distribution expectations" ?



KnightHawk75 -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (2/21/2022 7:24:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx5058
What do you mean by "though used with care as it can affect unrep distribution expectations" ?


Unit-1
mount1 cap 10 {something 10/10}
mount2 cap 4 {something 4/4}

Unit-2
--you've used a 10k because you wanted an entry with the rof you wanted that didn't exist in the way you wanted.
mount1 cap 10k {something 200/10000}

Unit-3
--you've used a 10k because you wanted 10k, and used 64capped mount cause it had other properties you wanted, lets say hot-reload. The why's don't really matter.
mount1 cap 64 {something 10000/10000}

Unit-4(Resupply)
mag1 cap 10k {something 10000/10000}

Scenario plays, and unit-1 is down to 2/10 and 2/4, unit-2 is down to 0/10000, unit-3 is down to 0/10000.
You send units 1,2,3 to resupply from unit-4 thinking unit 1 will get filled and unit 2 will get refilled to 200, and unit 3 will get the rest and fill to 10k or close. These would be a bad assumptions. IF unit-1 arrives last there will be nothing left to refill it, if it arrives first, no issue. Unit-2 will not take 200, it will attempt to take 10,000 as it's the cap for both the wpn record and the mount cap. Unit-3 will attempt to refill to 10000 but stop at 64 (it was a one-time 10k entry allowed to break the cap only during editing, not during refill).

That's the sort of rabbit hole I was trying not to expand on and yet not completely ignore. ;)



nukkxx5058 -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (2/22/2022 11:55:59 AM)

I see...

I noticed something else:

If you have one arty unit for example equipped with 600 x 155mm/52 HE (e.g. #2401 Arty Bty 155mm/52 Caesar self-propelled Howitzer) and you want to refill it because it went down to, let's say, 0 x 155mm/52 HE. If in the ammo truck you have one single entry of 10.000 x 155mm/52 HE and if it takes let's say 20 seconds to refill 1/600 "elements" (not sure I have the right vocabulary here) it will take 600*20 seconds to refill the unit in full which is over 3 hours ! (it's a lot I think). BUT, and here is my point, if instead of putting 1 line of 10.000 x 155mm/52 HE in the ammo truck you put 10 entries of 1.000 x 155mm/52 HE then the replenishment rate will be 10 times faster as the replenishment will be of 10 * 1 element every 20 seconds instead of 1 element every 20 seconds, hence 10 times faster to reload.

Not sure it makes sense or if it was intended as such, at least for ammunition present in large number like these 155mm/52 HE ... [&:]



KnightHawk75 -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (2/22/2022 4:59:31 PM)

Yup I've purposely chosen at times specific mag,mounts and wpnrecords (both in the mount and mags) specifically for faster than default reloading times, and in other cases to mimic longer reloading times. Intentional or not I like the flexibility it offers once you understand the model. Since we can't edit the database at least we can mix and match different things that do exist to get the desired effect one might want (be it realistic or not).



nukkxx5058 -> RE: Meaning of "ROF:" when Adding Weapons to Air Bases' Magazines (2/22/2022 5:13:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightHawk75

Yup I've purposely chosen at times specific mag,mounts and wpnrecords (both in the mount and mags) specifically for faster than default reloading times, and in other cases to mimic longer reloading times. Intentional or not I like the flexibility it offers once you understand the model. Since we can't edit the database at least we can mix and match different things that do exist to get the desired effect one might want (be it realistic or not).

I fully agree with that !



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