RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal

RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal (Full Version)

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Lowpe -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal (6/3/2017 8:14:50 PM)
Try not to let carriers wander into the outer edges of your good land based air search...at this point only the full kb can do that. If he had dl on your carriers, I am sure he wants to bait them into a strike like this.

Xargun -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal (6/3/2017 8:14:54 PM)
Here is the rest of the mini KB - if we can avoid the allies all will live to fight again. [image]local://upfiles/10982/5946EF5A32D1407DB0A0145C2F2CB96A.jpg[/image]

Xargun -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal (6/3/2017 8:16:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe Try not to let carriers wander into the outer edges of your good land based air search...at this point only the full kb can do that. If he had dl on your carriers, I am sure he wants to bait them into a strike like this. He had no dl on them. They were to the south and moved north this turn. Surprised they didn't react away from the enemy ships to increase the range. Or don't they ever react away?

Aurorus -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal (6/3/2017 8:22:47 PM)
Having those BBs in there saved you as they drew a lot of attention away from the CVs. With most of his torpedo bombers badly depleted, his next attack will likely come from higher altitude as it will be comprised of dive bomber exclusively. He has the "inside" on you, do you see that? He is closer to bases, LBA figher cover, and ports for his damaged ships, while you are caught out in the center of the Indian Ocean. I would abandon the CVEs and Hiyo to their fate, and get the rest of the CVLs back toward friendly waters at flank speed. Losing Taiyo and Hosho is not a major blow to Japanese naval air. Losing the Hiyo is unfortunate, but it could have been much, much worse. The IJN will live to fight another day and that is a good thing.

Lowpe -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal (6/3/2017 8:24:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Xargun quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe Try not to let carriers wander into the outer edges of your good land based air search...at this point only the full kb can do that. I hope CR or Chickenboy don't read that sentence.[:D] If he had dl on your carriers, I am sure he wants to bait them into a strike like this. He had no dl on them. They were to the south and moved north this turn. Surprised they didn't react away from the enemy ships to increase the range. Or don't they ever react away? Reaction depends upon leaders and luck and dl. Did you spot the ships at night? I mean if Allies knew the mini kb was operating in the area...he would look to kill it by providing a sacrificial TF to lure you in. But if he knew it was the KB most likely he would have holed up in port and waited for the coast to clear. But if the KB was spotted at Rabaul...well then he has a free hand.

Xargun -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal (6/3/2017 8:25:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aurorus Having those BBs in there saved you as they drew a lot of attention away from the CVs. With most of his torpedo bombers badly depleted, his next attack will likely come from higher altitude as it will be comprised of dive bomber exclusively. He has the "inside" on you, do you see that? He is closer to bases, LBA figher cover, and ports for his damaged ships, while you are caught out in the center of the Indian Ocean. I would abandon the CVEs and Hiyo to their fate, and get the rest of the CVLs back toward friendly waters at flank speed. Losing Taiyo and Hosho is not a major blow to Japanese naval air. Losing the Hiyo is unfortunate, but it could have been much, much worse. The IJN will live to fight another day and that is a good thing. I am one of those that try to save every ship - I bust my rear to move damaged ships to ports to save.. just one of those types. But on the other hand, I will try to save what I can, but will not risk 'good' ships after bad. Taiyo is dead so she will serve as bait. I will remove all pilots off here and change leaders and let the allies sink her - just hope she stays afloat through the night. Hosho and Hiyo will be on their own -- everything else will run for it.

Bif1961 -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal (6/3/2017 8:28:45 PM)
The question is how did he sneak those Americans carriers in and you had no idea? This is the ban of the Japanese using the mini-KB and getting it ambushed.

Xargun -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal (6/5/2017 5:43:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bif1961 The question is how did he sneak those Americans carriers in and you had no idea? This is the ban of the Japanese using the mini-KB and getting it ambushed. I saw what was reported as possibility of 3 CVs in the area. I figured they were just the Brit CVs and some FOW. I was wrong and it cost me.

Xargun -> CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/5/2017 5:48:59 PM)
Well it went from bad to worse. I split up the wounded CVs and moved them all... Mr Kane expectly guessed correctly and placed his Death Star right in the center and was able to launch attacks on all of my TFs [X(] He is definately a pro. The next day he sank all Carriers (although Hosho succumbed to her fires at dawn and didn't draw any attacks [:@]). Over the next couple days he punished and finished off everything else from the mini KB - only 2 DDs escaped. He roamed near the Thailand coastline and caught a few transports that did not disband at moulmein and sank those too. It appears he is finally leaving the area, but not 100% yet. In all I lost 4 Carriers (2 CVs and 2 CVEs), 2 BBs and 3 CAs along with a few DDs. A horrible exchange for a couple torpedo hits on the North Carolina. I had 100 Netties along the coast trying to get some night strikes in but they never attacked. Had detection a few nights, but nothing flew. Would have been nice to score some night strikes, but oh well.

PaxMondo -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/5/2017 11:55:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Xargun I had 100 Netties along the coast trying to get some night strikes in but they never attacked. Had detection a few nights, but nothing flew. Would have been nice to score some night strikes, but oh well. I have rarely (actually never that I can recall) been able to get Netties to launch daylight against allied carriers unless they are both hurt bad AND the Netties have a ton of escort. I know players can do it, but I am not one of them. OTOH, night naval attacks against allied CV's? Oh yeah, those I can execute quite nicely .... and pilots with EXP +75 will get hits with reasonable percentages ...

PaxMondo -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/5/2017 11:56:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Xargun Well it went from bad to worse. I split up the wounded CVs and moved them all... Sorry, I had already written them all off ... not sure your HR's, but get all those groups back and size them as large are your HR's will allow.

Aurorus -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/6/2017 12:10:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo quote: ORIGINAL: Xargun I had 100 Netties along the coast trying to get some night strikes in but they never attacked. Had detection a few nights, but nothing flew. Would have been nice to score some night strikes, but oh well. I have rarely (actually never that I can recall) been able to get Netties to launch daylight against allied carriers unless they are both hurt bad AND the Netties have a ton of escort. I know players can do it, but I am not one of them. OTOH, night naval attacks against allied CV's? Oh yeah, those I can execute quite nicely .... and pilots with EXP +75 will get hits with reasonable percentages ... Really? Well... yes... you do need a good-sized escort squadron (a 45-plane squadron devoted entirely to escort- more for larger CV groups) and an aggressive commander for the air HQ. I also believe (and I think Lowpe has had this experience too) that naval skill (for the commander) and naval search also are conducive to having Netties strike any type of naval target. I do not know if this is true, but it seems that way to me. Altitude settings are helpful too. One tactic that I like is to have the Netties set to naval strike very low (around 2K altitude) if I know that there are allied CVs in the area and I have CVs with DBs coming in at 12K or so. The netties can often slip in under the worst of the CAP, especially if the CV strike arrives first.

Lowpe -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/6/2017 12:14:56 AM)
The starting aggression for the Nell squadrons is usually very, very low....which isn't a bad thing considering how good the pilots are.

Aurorus -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/6/2017 12:19:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe The starting aggression for the Nell squadrons is usually very, very low....which isn't a bad thing considering how good the pilots are. The starting commander of the 24th at Singapore has a 38 air skill and a very high aggression. He will launch Netties against anything (usually uncoordinated and without escorts). I forget his name (as he is often retired on Dec. 7th in my games, never to see action), but if you really want Netties to get in there... use that commander for an air HQ (and watch your experience 70 torpedo pilots be massacred).

Xargun -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/6/2017 12:33:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo quote: ORIGINAL: Xargun I had 100 Netties along the coast trying to get some night strikes in but they never attacked. Had detection a few nights, but nothing flew. Would have been nice to score some night strikes, but oh well. I have rarely (actually never that I can recall) been able to get Netties to launch daylight against allied carriers unless they are both hurt bad AND the Netties have a ton of escort. I know players can do it, but I am not one of them. OTOH, night naval attacks against allied CV's? Oh yeah, those I can execute quite nicely .... and pilots with EXP +75 will get hits with reasonable percentages ... I am guessing the key to night strikes is dl, dl and more dl ?

Xargun -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/6/2017 12:35:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo quote: ORIGINAL: Xargun Well it went from bad to worse. I split up the wounded CVs and moved them all... Sorry, I had already written them all off ... not sure your HR's, but get all those groups back and size them as large are your HR's will allow. No problem - I thought I could save Junyo but he expertly positioned his CVs and caught them all. I have bought back all air groups - even the float planes from the cruiser / BBs. The CV planes will be resize up and either placed on the soon to arrive CVE / CVL or used as land based. The float planes will make their way back to japan to be resized on my CS and used for training for now.

Lowpe -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/6/2017 12:51:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Xargun I am guessing the key to night strikes is dl, dl and more dl ? Experienced pilots and DL. If you want to be really cheesy, put together a large Emily squadron with 80+ exp and 70+ naval torpedo skills. They drop two torpedoes per attack and can take the AA from Allied fleets.

Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/6/2017 1:13:04 PM)
I think a big mistake was not to run away flank speed (if I am reading post 422's picture correctly); regardless of damage, you cannot go cruise speed when your opponent is very aggressive and capable, he was going to exploit it. Your only chance was to be as far away as possible. Your damage was not that terrible, I have run flank speed with much worst, naturally you would increase damage, but that is less damage that what a bomb or torpedo can do

Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/6/2017 1:20:03 PM)
Another one is naval search.. I mean Pt Blair is a perfect place to put 100+ Betties doing nothing but naval search; their long range would had given you an idea of how big was his TF. It is actually very common to see a very strong/ USN augmented Eastern fleet. Same happened in my 2 games (as Allies and as Japan) That being said, your losses, as tragic as they are, are not crippling. Those carriers are among the most useless on Japan's inventory

Xargun -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/6/2017 5:02:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury I think a big mistake was not to run away flank speed (if I am reading post 422's picture correctly); regardless of damage, you cannot go cruise speed when your opponent is very aggressive and capable, he was going to exploit it. Your only chance was to be as far away as possible. Your damage was not that terrible, I have run flank speed with much worst, naturally you would increase damage, but that is less damage that what a bomb or torpedo can do I did run at flank speed - but for most of them it was only 1 or 2 additional hex - not enough to make any difference. I curved the Junyo SE a bit instead of straight south - which would have saved the Junyo and her entire TF -- at least for one turn.

Xargun -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/6/2017 5:03:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury Another one is naval search.. I mean Pt Blair is a perfect place to put 100+ Betties doing nothing but naval search; their long range would had given you an idea of how big was his TF. It is actually very common to see a very strong/ USN augmented Eastern fleet. Same happened in my 2 games (as Allies and as Japan) That being said, your losses, as tragic as they are, are not crippling. Those carriers are among the most useless on Japan's inventory I do not have Port Blair built up enough for netties - but have moved some Mavis there. I agree - the 4 Carriers lost were the slowest ones - that is why I operated them together. The CV lost was bad, but the loss of the BBs and CAs really hurt.

Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/6/2017 5:57:48 PM)
It is dangerous to move the carriers on waters that had not been searched, this specially true in the Indian ocean, which is easily accessed by the Allies from Ceylon Something that might had work is to send multiple TFs, to multiple destinations that are not within range (what I call a cockroach run) this way you can guarantee that some TFs will survive, at least for a turn And it is 2 hexes per phase... ~4 in total, which is not little

witpqs -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/6/2017 6:02:28 PM)
There was little you could do to increase the chances of saving them, really only provide your opponent with the chance to make a mistake. Which he did not, of course.

PaxMondo -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/7/2017 12:49:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs There was little you could do to increase the chances of saving them, really only provide your opponent with the chance to make a mistake. Which he did not, of course. +1 Totally. You did the best you could, you needed a mistake by Kane which was not likely to happen. Put it behind you. you paid a price to know where the allied CV's are and a potential axis of attack. Be sure you use it. It is possible that Mr. Kane did this just to get your babyKB ... a lot of IJ players use it in the IO in the early game, so it could have been a trap that he gambled on. OR He moved them there to support a major axis of attack. The former means he got lucky on a long shot. Nothing really more to do. The latter though requires followup by you ...

Xargun -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/9/2017 5:44:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo OR He moved them there to support a major axis of attack. The former means he got lucky on a long shot. Nothing really more to do. The latter though requires followup by you ... The Brits and Ozzie units are making a huge push for Burma - the deathstar may have been simply escort for moving troops or for some other purpose I have not deciphered yet. I did see at least 1 CV arrive at Columbo and missed my chance to sink her as all 6 torpedoes missed CV Hornet [:@] That would have made me so happy but I haven't landed a sub torpedo in like 3 months of gametime. I think my torpedoes are all broken now... Myitkyina and Katha have fallen to the allied offense (which I did not see any movement tags on some of the units so I was taken by surprise - is there some way to 'hide' them?). I will try to post some pics this evening of the current situation. The good thing is allied air strikes are more prevalent and I have pulled off a couple good sweeps / cap traps.

PaxMondo -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/10/2017 4:38:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Xargun The Brits and Ozzie units are making a huge push for Burma - t Where are the US units? He has a bunch now bought out ...

Mike McCreery -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/10/2017 1:48:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Xargun quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo OR He moved them there to support a major axis of attack. The former means he got lucky on a long shot. Nothing really more to do. The latter though requires followup by you ... The Brits and Ozzie units are making a huge push for Burma - the deathstar may have been simply escort for moving troops or for some other purpose I have not deciphered yet. I did see at least 1 CV arrive at Columbo and missed my chance to sink her as all 6 torpedoes missed CV Hornet [:@] That would have made me so happy but I haven't landed a sub torpedo in like 3 months of gametime. I think my torpedoes are all broken now... Myitkyina and Katha have fallen to the allied offense (which I did not see any movement tags on some of the units so I was taken by surprise - is there some way to 'hide' them?). I will try to post some pics this evening of the current situation. The good thing is allied air strikes are more prevalent and I have pulled off a couple good sweeps / cap traps. MrKane moves his units in an unusual way that does seem to hide directional movement indicators sometimes. I have not figured out how he does that.

GetAssista -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/10/2017 4:26:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wargmr quote: ORIGINAL: Xargun Myitkyina and Katha have fallen to the allied offense (which I did not see any movement tags on some of the units so I was taken by surprise - is there some way to 'hide' them?). I will try to post some pics this evening of the current situation. The good thing is allied air strikes are more prevalent and I have pulled off a couple good sweeps / cap traps. MrKane moves his units in an unusual way that does seem to hide directional movement indicators sometimes. I have not figured out how he does that. Very interesting. I did some quick testing. It seems that you can partially conceal movement blip under the top icon if you do not move the LCU with lowest ID number. It can become harder to see with diagonal movement, especially on the original map containing colorful hex graphics with lots of darker dots. But I was not able to altogether make the blip disappear. Tested with different movement modes and did not see any conclusive difference in how movement indicators appear for the other side, both in head-2-head or save-load-as-other-side.

Aurorus -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/10/2017 7:12:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GetAssista quote: ORIGINAL: Wargmr quote: ORIGINAL: Xargun Myitkyina and Katha have fallen to the allied offense (which I did not see any movement tags on some of the units so I was taken by surprise - is there some way to 'hide' them?). I will try to post some pics this evening of the current situation. The good thing is allied air strikes are more prevalent and I have pulled off a couple good sweeps / cap traps. MrKane moves his units in an unusual way that does seem to hide directional movement indicators sometimes. I have not figured out how he does that. Very interesting. I did some quick testing. It seems that you can partially conceal movement blip under the top icon if you do not move the LCU with lowest ID number. It can become harder to see with diagonal movement, especially on the original map containing colorful hex graphics with lots of darker dots. But I was not able to altogether make the blip disappear. Tested with different movement modes and did not see any conclusive difference in how movement indicators appear for the other side, both in head-2-head or save-load-as-other-side. One good tactic is to keep movement blips going in contested theaters, even when you have no intention of moving the units. For example, leave the unit in combat mode and start a move. If you are not in a malaria zone, it will not harm the unit. Just be sure to cancel the move before the unit arrives at the target hex. If you change these orders every few turns, especially on hexes with high DL, you can confuse your opponent. Keep in mind though that issuing these orders will increase supply use slightly, so try to do it with small units only.

Xargun -> RE: CV Battle in the Bay of Bengal - Aftermath (6/11/2017 2:19:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GetAssista quote: ORIGINAL: Wargmr quote: ORIGINAL: Xargun Myitkyina and Katha have fallen to the allied offense (which I did not see any movement tags on some of the units so I was taken by surprise - is there some way to 'hide' them?). I will try to post some pics this evening of the current situation. The good thing is allied air strikes are more prevalent and I have pulled off a couple good sweeps / cap traps. MrKane moves his units in an unusual way that does seem to hide directional movement indicators sometimes. I have not figured out how he does that. Very interesting. I did some quick testing. It seems that you can partially conceal movement blip under the top icon if you do not move the LCU with lowest ID number. It can become harder to see with diagonal movement, especially on the original map containing colorful hex graphics with lots of darker dots. But I was not able to altogether make the blip disappear. Tested with different movement modes and did not see any conclusive difference in how movement indicators appear for the other side, both in head-2-head or save-load-as-other-side. That is a master-level skill I will not try to master anytime soon. Although I need to find a way to 'see' the movement. He caught me nearly blindsided in Northern Burma and I'm scrambling to save 2 divisions cut off by this.

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