RE: 8MP Axis T29 (Full Version)

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timmyab -> RE: 8MP Axis T29 (5/31/2018 2:39:29 PM)

Turn 31 Army group North

The Soviet offensive is now concentrated in the area to the West of Torzhok where they push us back across a fifty mile front. Reinforcements are sent including SS Totenkopf, a corps from 18th army and one fresh OKH division.

Front line cities like Torzhok (circled) in this example are very useful to the Axis during the first blizzard. It acts like an immovable object and at the same time provides winter protection for high morale divisions while still enabling them to contribute to the defense.
[image]local://upfiles/36871/32F9C9FC8F0A444E89F449329C93AB4F.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis T31 (5/31/2018 5:05:33 PM)

Many thanks to timmyab for finding me the link to this video on the use of AA guns in the ground support role.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48zE-hRAYEA

Until now I have been unconvinced. Not because I doubt it would be effective - I am sure it would be. But because I doubted it would be economical. They were used if needs meant it to had to be - rather like a spade is not a weapon but you would use it if you had to. Only the 88mm was designated as a weapon designed/intended for ground warfare

But in this video they make it clear not only were AA guns of other calibres used in a ground support role, but they were intended to be. They even made anti armour shells for them meaning it was a pre-meditated use.



thedude357 -> RE: 8MP Axis T31 (5/31/2018 8:01:39 PM)

Turn 31 Army Group South

The blizzard continues. Plenty of Soviet attacks, but I am not going to be pushed around all winter. The Germans conduct several successful counterattacks which had LVII Panzer Corps and LV Corps shatter the 59th Rifle Brigade and routed the 81st Rifle Division and forced a retreat of the 146th Rifle Division. Who says there isn't a German blizzard offensive capability? 103rd RHG also beats up on some Soviet units near Voronezh and lets the Soviets know that they are still capable of attacks.



[image]https://i.imgur.com/9Y7UCmA.jpg[/image]



leverkuhn -> RE: 8MP Axis T31 (5/31/2018 11:58:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

But in this video they make it clear not only were AA guns of other calibres used in a ground support role, but they were intended to be. They even made anti armour shells for them meaning it was a pre-meditated use.


I'm pretty sure I had seen that video. I guess now the question is settled. [sm=00000106.gif]



Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis T31 (6/1/2018 12:57:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedude357
Turn 31 Army Group South
103rd RHG also beats up on some Soviet units near Voronezh and lets the Soviets know that they are still capable of attacks.

Again huge numbers of Soviet AFVs being lost to German security regiments?



Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis T31 (6/1/2018 1:03:06 PM)

Turn 31 21-January-1942 Intelligence

Do you know the whereabouts of this man?

Last seen in the North on Turn 30 but been missing for more than a week now - his location is urgently required by Axis High commands. He is considered armed and dangerous, if spotted he should not be approached. Instead report to your nearest friendly Gestapo officer who will be very grateful. And if that is not enough we can also be very generous.

[image]local://upfiles/53894/8A5F83B71DBA4114BC2D63FD3842D673.jpg[/image]



SparkleyTits -> RE: 8MP Axis T31 (6/1/2018 1:27:55 PM)

Yes those sec are havoc for our AFV!! I suspect that Rokossovsky and his cavalry have been redeployed to deal with them all! [:D]



Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis T31 (6/1/2018 2:22:45 PM)

Turn 31 Allocations
For information only - team allocations for turn 31.



Telemecus -> 8MP Axis T32 (6/1/2018 2:24:47 PM)

Turn 32 28-January-1942 Centre

Our fort lines either side of Moscow still has not been reached. The fort built at Orel for the beginning of a defensive line there is looking very superfluos now! Between our fort lines and the Oka the yo-yo battle of 2 hexes continues. Niether side is strong enough to hold the hexes but are strong enough to take them from the other side while fortification levels remain low.

All the real action is now south of the Oka. Kreysing extracts nearly 2k of casualties from the Soviet side while still retreating in good order. And regiments continue to exact disproportionate casulaties from the enemy in defence. The long range ground bombing of Axis forces between the Oka and Tula continues and is now being met by concentrated batteries of flak waiting for them.

Counterattacks in our go see cavalry corps and guards divisions routing. We even have a case of one of our Panzer divisions reserve activating from its winter quarters in support of our attacks.

A number of battles see the use of 103RHG units where we do not care too much about the CV of the units involved but welcome the several extra support units they bring to the table causing extra disruption to the enemy.

[image]local://upfiles/53894/1287D80C09CA4821ADADC6379086374B.jpg[/image]

Meanwhile the Soviets centre commander see his nemesis request a command transfer specifically so that he can see him in battle!

[image]https://i.imgur.com/aqhIuwT.jpg[/image]



EwaldvonKleist -> RE: 8MP Axis T32 (6/1/2018 2:33:34 PM)

quote:

eanwhile the Soviets centre commander see his nemesis request a command transfer specifically so that he can see him in battle!

Yes, it was a funny surprise to see him appear right in front of me. Unfortunately for my nemesis, Zhukov was in place. IIRC I did only find out E v K (as opposed to EvK) is there through this battle, so the commitment of Zhukov against him was a coincidence.



timmyab -> RE: 8MP Axis T29 (6/1/2018 2:44:11 PM)

Turn 32 Army group North

Message from field marshal Mannerheim this week asking me if AGN could assist in some crazy idea he has to try and form a bridgehead across the Janisjarvi river North of Lake Ladoga. I told him to stop wasting my time, everyone knows that the JanisJarvi line is impregnable. However the situation map suggests that the mad old fool intends to ignore my advice and have a go at it anyway. Four Finnish brigades plus a regiment of infantry have been moved into the area in the last few days.
[image]local://upfiles/36871/4ED6DE7DDD734E7CAD1AE8DED7720203.jpg[/image]

Very little else to report. AGN's front is quiet all the way from Moscow to Novgorod and Roko's cavalry are nowhere to be found. Could it be that the great Soviet Northern offensive is really over this time. I certainly hope so because I could do with a rest. However there is a mountain of paperwork to attend to and me and Eva will undoubtedly be at it all night.



Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis T32 (6/1/2018 2:47:47 PM)

[image]https://i.imgur.com/aJLMc5r.jpg[/image]

The airforce scours the railways in ...

[image]local://upfiles/53894/5EA6161A117345B39A7148DAC36D647D.jpg[/image]



Zorch -> RE: 8MP Axis T31 (6/1/2018 8:12:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedude357
Turn 31 Army Group South
103rd RHG also beats up on some Soviet units near Voronezh and lets the Soviets know that they are still capable of attacks.

Again huge numbers of Soviet AFVs being lost to German security regiments?

Those overage guys know how to deal with tanks from Cambrai. Just dig a trench 4 feet wide and the tank is stopped. Or it breaks down.



Zorch -> RE: 8MP Axis T29 (6/1/2018 8:13:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab

Turn 32 Army group North

However there is a mountain of paperwork to attend to and me and Eva will undoubtedly be at it all night.

Playing Tigers in the Snow?



Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis T32 (6/1/2018 9:20:22 PM)

Still searching

[image]local://upfiles/53894/B9B109282F9F403984AA9A53DDA2E389.jpg[/image]



SparkleyTits -> RE: 8MP Axis T32 (6/1/2018 9:32:07 PM)

I did not realise he was causing such a fuss [:D]



Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis T32 (6/2/2018 2:42:38 PM)

The search has become a manhunt ...

[image]local://upfiles/53894/594DC2BEC43A4DEF907F5FE30F356D2F.jpg[/image]

we suspect the war was too much for them and they just ran home to Momma



M60A3TTS -> RE: 8MP Axis T32 (6/3/2018 6:53:17 PM)

Here are two good videos that I would recommend which cover strategic bombing during World War 2

The first is the BBC Episode from the World at War series titled "Whirlwind" The first part gives real insight into how the RAF under Sir Arthur Harris carried on an air war over Germany and the many challenges it entailed. It then goes into the portion where the USAAF joined in until Operation Overlord forced a stoppage in much of their operations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P8Xu3nDAdw

Target For Today is a 1944 film that goes into great detail as to why and how the US 8th Air Force selected and struck at industrial ground targets. It goes into their estimates of what percentage of this or that element they were targeting would be affected provided they accomplished their mission. Unlike the first video, there is no perspective from the German side, so there is obviously a message this film was attempting to convey to its audience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVhHCMewvgI




Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis T32 (6/3/2018 7:06:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

It then goes into the portion where the USAAF joined in until Operation Overlord forced a stoppage in much of their operations.


There was an economic study that used the D-Day interruption to strategic bombing as control to estimate the economic impact on the German economy. The estimate was it was reduced by 6%. Given the resources the western allies actually put into strategic bombing (even more substantial) this arguably made the relative economic costs and benefits of being bombed actually in Germany's favour.



Telemecus -> 8MP Axis Kabuki Dance (6/12/2018 1:37:06 PM)

For fans of the Kabuki Dance another diagram made in the team of how it could be used in the centre command. In this case it is following rail repair and uses an empty 16LW airbase as intermediary for all the moves.

[image]local://upfiles/53894/1E20EF3FB0FF4FFB833F04C19DD09BA0.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis Summer Operational Name (6/23/2018 6:05:40 PM)

UPDATE ON THE NAME OF OUR SUMMER OPERATIONAL PLAN


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

OPEN FOR NOMINATIONS

What will we call out summer campaign plan?

We started planning our summer campaign way back before the winter started - and now we are actually playing turn 38 we are only a little while away from Kick off and on version 15 of the plan. But we lack one crucial ingredient - the operational name. Last time we had nominations and a vote for the name of our campaign for Moscow, Operation Totenritt. This time we are opening nominations for all lurkers to contribute, nominations even from our Soviet opponents will be considered. However any suggestions which imply anything other than a complete victory will of course be eliminated!

So what are your suggestions????!!!!


Two nominations wre eliminated for failing to give the necessary confidence in our overwhelming vicotry

Operation flatonface (SparkleyTits)
Operation Wishful Thinking (M60A3TTS)

The following nominations remain: (some have been redacted)

The Stelteck Plan - after the originator of the concept
Operation does not imply anything other than a complete victory (N35T0R) - does what it says on the tin
Operation 'I hear Siberia is very nice this time of year' (Zorch)
Operation Golden Spike (Crackaces)
Operation Yellow Snow (AFV) - sounds like we are drug dealers
Operation Don't eat the yellow snow where the huskies go (Zorch) - sounds like we took those drugs
Operation ******** Prize (lowsugar)
Plan ******** (thedude357)
Hangman (thedude357)
Noose (thedude357)
Case Blue (historical)
Sehnsucht (leverkuhn)
Treppenwitz (leverkuhn)
Zugzwang (leverkuhn)



Zorch -> RE: 8MP Axis Summer Operational Name (6/23/2018 10:28:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

UPDATE ON THE NAME OF OUR SUMMER OPERATIONAL PLAN


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

OPEN FOR NOMINATIONS

What will we call out summer campaign plan?

We started planning our summer campaign way back before the winter started - and now we are actually playing turn 38 we are only a little while away from Kick off and on version 15 of the plan. But we lack one crucial ingredient - the operational name. Last time we had nominations and a vote for the name of our campaign for Moscow, Operation Totenritt. This time we are opening nominations for all lurkers to contribute, nominations even from our Soviet opponents will be considered. However any suggestions which imply anything other than a complete victory will of course be eliminated!

So what are your suggestions????!!!!


Two nominations wre eliminated for failing to give the necessary confidence in our overwhelming vicotry

Operation flatonface (SparkleyTits)
Operation Wishful Thinking (M60A3TTS)

The following nominations remain: (some have been redacted)

The Stelteck Plan - after the originator of the concept
Operation does not imply anything other than a complete victory (N35T0R) - does what it says on the tin
Operation 'I hear Siberia is very nice this time of year' (Zorch)
Operation Golden Spike (Crackaces)
Operation Yellow Snow (AFV) - sounds like we are drug dealers
Operation Don't eat the yellow snow where the huskies go (Zorch) - sounds like we took those drugs
Operation ******** Prize (lowsugar)
Plan ******** (thedude357)
Hangman (thedude357)
Noose (thedude357)
Case Blue (historical)
Sehnsucht (leverkuhn)
Treppenwitz (leverkuhn)
Zugzwang (leverkuhn)

If I may be permitted to make one suggestion, "Operation PanzerTotenKriegKopfBlitz", or PTKKB.
Only because Springtime for Hitler is taken.



Searry -> RE: 8MP Axis Summer Operational Name (6/25/2018 12:49:38 AM)

[&o] Excellent! Just read through it all.



leverkuhn -> RE: 8MP Axis Summer Operational Name (6/27/2018 1:36:55 AM)

Just to settle the question of the flak weapons being used in ground attacks, I'm currently reading a book about the Flak by one of the most important spanish war historians (Carlos Caballero). During the France campaign, the flak destroyed 500 planes, but also 150 tanks and numerous fortified positions.

Apparently, the efficacy of ground fire was discovered during the spanish civil war, where some flak batteries operated. They applied these lessons to the Polish campaign, where the aviation was disabled by the Luftwaffe in the first hours. By the time Barbarossa started, everyone in the Wehrmacht knew about the amazing results of flak guns against tanks and forts.

I guess the game manual should inform of this. But the most important thing is to underline that there is not any kind of bug regarding flak guns being deadly in ground attacks.



Telemecus -> RE: Flak as ground weapons (6/27/2018 1:02:43 PM)

I have had to do a complete 180 degree turn on my views on this as I can now see the use of Flak as ground weapons was not inefficient or just ad hoc but was intended and munitions were made and supplied for it as such.

But my dismay goes beyond the game. Having watched countless hours of documentary and read so many books on world war history why did I never pick this up. Why did they continue to refer to these weapons as anti-aircraft if truly they were general purpose multi cannon. If they thought it was just unnecessary to re-designate these weapons, why did they re-designate the 88mm? Why do military historians not use the proper designations for these weapons?



leverkuhn -> RE: Flak as ground weapons (6/27/2018 7:15:06 PM)

There are probably several reasons for that. One is undoubtly that book writers are too focused on the most mainstream units –panzer, Infantry, Luftwaffe–, the ones boiling in readers' imagination, to even bother researching about the flak. But another, maybe the most important one, is that flak battalions are entirely missing from most ground commanders' memoirs, and that's because they belonged to a rival section of the army –Luftwaffe. One notable exception to this is Albert Kesselring, who Commanded the Mediterranean forces and clearly states that "every Heer commander wanted to be protected by flak units".



thedude357 -> RE: Flak as ground weapons (6/28/2018 5:47:46 PM)

Turn 32 Army Group South

Attacks all over the Southern front from the Soviets. The Romanians are performing better than expected and cause heavy casualties for the Soviets. Do to our stellar recon, we have spotted some large Soviet assembly areas way back to the rear. The winter is only going to get colder, still about 2 months left.

[image]https://i.imgur.com/JL6gps6.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> 8MP Axis T32 (6/28/2018 7:59:45 PM)

Turn 32 Allocations
For information only - team allocations for turn 32.



Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis T33 (6/29/2018 11:45:23 AM)

Turn 33 04-February-1942 Centre

The Yo-Yo battles continue north of the Oka - but the main focus south of the Oka now extends well to the south of Tula. Our opponents comment on their surprise at seeing one of our regiments actually rout for the first time - but we had expected and planned for that one.

The Soviet tactic of "soaking" attacks of repeated hopeless combats to use up our ammo before the "real" attack is also triggering many of our reserves to activate.

Our counter attacks continue to chip away at their cavalry. In terms of making territorial advances the Soviet offensive has ground to a halt - the Soviet side only gained and held a single solitary hex in the centre this turn. The number of Axis attacks is only a couple short of Soviet ones.

[image]local://upfiles/53894/C28F98E770964611B13BC3B0EAF78654.jpg[/image]



Zorch -> RE: 8MP Axis T33 (6/29/2018 7:59:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Turn 33 04-February-1942 Centre

Our counter attacks continue to chip away at their cavalry. In terms of making territorial advances the Soviet offensive has ground to a halt - the Soviet side only gained and held a single solitary hex in the centre this turn. The number of Axis attacks is only a couple short of Soviet ones.


This bodes poorly for the Soviets.



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