quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I'd only considered the protection of airbases related to the presence of barrage balloons to limit those sub-6000ft strikes that Loka loves. Protection of supply is something I'd not thought of, but what you say makes sense. How much supply is lost when B-29s get 10 hits on Tokyo airbase supply dump? I'd hate to find out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert



Really? Isn't that a bit counter productive VP wise? That many kamis plus the strike planes would be a lot of points to the Allies. Is it worth it if you sink 3-4 CVs per strike?

I didn't like the Toka/Tsurugi for their lack of range and awfully low durability combined with lack of armor. Rather lose half as many fast 2E that get as many through for damage. Or just a bunch of Grace/Judys where I don't have to commit to another line of planes and I just use the training gross for what they are, training.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I'm thinking of stripping all of the standalone Manchurian engineer units in early '42, after they've finished expanding Fusan's port to maximum. There are enough organic engineers in the infantry divisions in Manchuria to form a respectable engineering corps if you shuffle them around, and China has enough organic engineer units to expand airbases for offensive purposes. Plus, you're not liable to need the forts and airbases in this region until 1945 anyways, which gives even limited resources the best part of three years to get some work done.

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ORIGINAL: Aurorus

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


I am just cutting out the Tojo completely. There's not much that really seems an improvement over the Oscar, and the Oscar is just a more flexible air-frame. The only theatre where the Tojo shined for me was in Burma; everywhere else it was a defensive fighter. Sure, there may be a period in 42/43 where the Lightnings rule supreme, but from what I've seen they shot down Tojo's much as they did Oscars.

Frankly (and Frank is important regardless), I would skip the Oscar and focus exclusively on Tonies and Tojos. Tonies and Tojos get kills. Oscar does not. Heavy Tojo and Tony production (within reason) can deplete allied fighter pools into 1943. This cannot be achieved with Oscar. Neglecting Tojo and Tony neglects the biggest advantage that Japan derives from PDU:on, in my opinion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


I am just cutting out the Tojo completely. There's not much that really seems an improvement over the Oscar, and the Oscar is just a more flexible air-frame. The only theatre where the Tojo shined for me was in Burma; everywhere else it was a defensive fighter. Sure, there may be a period in 42/43 where the Lightnings rule supreme, but from what I've seen they shot down Tojo's much as they did Oscars.

Frankly (and Frank is important regardless), I would skip the Oscar and focus exclusively on Tonies and Tojos. Tonies and Tojos get kills. Oscar does not. Heavy Tojo and Tony production (within reason) can deplete allied fighter pools into 1943. This cannot be achieved with Oscar. Neglecting Tojo and Tony neglects the biggest advantage that Japan derives from PDU:on, in my opinion.

Those are all defensive fighters. I choose not to relinquish the initiative until I have to ... not earlier than late '43 ... into '44 if I can.

Needing offensive fighters, that means Oscar/A6M until Frank/George, and even then until you get Frank r, you can't get to max Helen range without Oscar. George can pair with Jill and relieve A6M immediately. But Frances requires A6M for max range ... A7M is a defensive fighter capable of min range (8) attack support.

This is all PDU ON ... for PDU off, you just build what the groups need.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus


Not sure that I would call Oscar an "offensive" fighter: unless you mean offensive as in "bothersome." With drop tanks the Tojo does fine on range. If you really must escort your Helens at maximum range, I suppose leaving a couple squadrons of Oscars hanging such do the trick. But Tony and Tojo are your air superiority fighters. To maintain the offense, you must maintain air superiority. You will not with Oscar. If you want to build a pile of Oscars, why bother with PDU:On, and let the allies change around their air force, while yours remains the same as it would be without changing any of the figher upgrade paths?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

What about Luzon ? Any construction plans there ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Fortification Priority

On Dec 7th, there's little scope for the Allies to mount offensive actions on the ground, so there's little need for Japan to develop forts quickly.

To that end, I intend to capitalise on this to develop forts in the Home Islands as quickly as possible. My reasoning behind this is that by 1945, I want to ensure that fort construction in the Home Islands is complete, so as to remove one drain on the limited supply production in the late war.

To that end, I will likely siphon off large numbers of engineer units from China and Manchuria to do a tour of construction duty in Japan before heading off to frontline bases. In general, I'd like to adopt a policy of digging from the inside of the Empire, moving outwards.

Frankly (and Frank is important regardless), I would skip Oscar after the Ic and produce Tojo and Tony as my late 42 and 43 fighters. Heavy Tojo and Tony production (within reason) will result in substantially more allied plane kills, much more than Oscar, and can deplete the U.S. fighter pools well into 1943. This is why, in my opinion, PDU:On greatly benefits Japan. To not take advantage of this is to not take advantage of PDU:on.

I would be careful with an extensive fort-building program on the home islands in the early war. You will be short of supply, and this will drain supply very, very quickly.... large amounts, depending upon how many engineers you redeploy there. If you are like me, there is just not enough supply on Honshu to build many forts for at least 6 months.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


I am just cutting out the Tojo completely. There's not much that really seems an improvement over the Oscar, and the Oscar is just a more flexible air-frame. The only theatre where the Tojo shined for me was in Burma; everywhere else it was a defensive fighter. Sure, there may be a period in 42/43 where the Lightnings rule supreme, but from what I've seen they shot down Tojo's much as they did Oscars.

Frankly (and Frank is important regardless), I would skip the Oscar and focus exclusively on Tonies and Tojos. Tonies and Tojos get kills. Oscar does not. Heavy Tojo and Tony production (within reason) can deplete allied fighter pools into 1943. This cannot be achieved with Oscar. Neglecting Tojo and Tony neglects the biggest advantage that Japan derives from PDU:on, in my opinion.

The P38 may rule supreme, but unlike Japan, the allies have a fixed production of this aircraft, and you will never face more than this fixed production allows. The rest of the allied fighters are kills for Tojo and Tony if these are your front-line fighters, rather than Oscar.

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ORIGINAL: Aurorus

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


I am just cutting out the Tojo completely. There's not much that really seems an improvement over the Oscar, and the Oscar is just a more flexible air-frame. The only theatre where the Tojo shined for me was in Burma; everywhere else it was a defensive fighter. Sure, there may be a period in 42/43 where the Lightnings rule supreme, but from what I've seen they shot down Tojo's much as they did Oscars.

Frankly (and Frank is important regardless), I would skip the Oscar and focus exclusively on Tonies and Tojos. Tonies and Tojos get kills. Oscar does not. Heavy Tojo and Tony production (within reason) can deplete allied fighter pools into 1943. This cannot be achieved with Oscar. Neglecting Tojo and Tony neglects the biggest advantage that Japan derives from PDU:on, in my opinion.

Those are all defensive fighters. I choose not to relinquish the initiative until I have to ... not earlier than late '43 ... into '44 if I can.

Needing offensive fighters, that means Oscar/A6M until Frank/George, and even then until you get Frank r, you can't get to max Helen range without Oscar. George can pair with Jill and relieve A6M immediately. But Frances requires A6M for max range ... A7M is a defensive fighter capable of min range (8) attack support.

This is all PDU ON ... for PDU off, you just build what the groups need.

Not sure that I would call Oscar an "offensive" fighter: unless you mean offensive as in "bothersome." With drop tanks the Tojo does fine on range. If you really must escort your Helens at maximum range, I suppose leaving a couple squadrons of Oscars hanging such do the trick. But Tony and Tojo are your air superiority fighters. To maintain the offense, you must maintain air superiority. You will not with Oscar. If you want to build a pile of Oscars, why bother with PDU:On, and let the allies change around their air force, while yours remains the same as it would be without changing any of the figher upgrade paths?

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Luzon can be bypassed by the Allies. I did that, only taking it as a backwater operation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

+1

I don't think you will take a drubbing in '43 no matter what you build ... because the allies are still very limited in fighter numbers except for F6F.

It is getting ready for '44 that has to happen as allied fighter numbers and quality start to really increase. Frank is critical to keeping pace. Getting it late '43 negates the allies P47 upgait nicely. [;)]

Where you are weak is the KB until you get A7M ... A6M is just not a match, in addition to everything else, the low DUR just doesn't hold up. F4U/F6F's are just too tough.

It takes a lot to get A7M in early '44, including luck. But you can and if you do, you can really surprise the allies. The Deathstar isn't a Deathstar in early '44 IF you have A7M's deployed in the KB .... particularly if you can CAP the KB with Frank/George. A full alpha strike can get through .... but you gotta trust your LBA CAP ... because I did say FULL ALPHA ... [;)]

As you can see from the "IJ NightMare" chart, after early '44, the KB can't touch the Deathstar. And truthfully, without the A7M, you can't touch it much after 9/43. But, with the A7M, and IF you have LBA cover ... well, you got a chance. After mid-44, I don't even see a chance. I have to keep the KB outta sight, it can only hit AFTER major LBA strikes (+4000 aircraft size) have hit it ...

[image]local://upfiles/29386/03354A2E526449E18E6C86BA19CC7A4C.jpg[/image]

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


I've came to realise that hunting CV's is pointless, at least fleet CVs. Planes can get through CAP, but it's slim odds that they get past flak. Once past that, it's slimmer odds still to hit a high MVR CV. Even then, it's even odds as to notable damage - the only recent example I had of a successful hit on a CV was on a Brit carrier, and all that did was make a nice mark on the paint.

Going after the CVE's and amphibs is a much more effective solution in my view, given the fact that they're pretty much dead meat once your past CAP. CVE's tend to burn nicely after the second kami hits, and loaded amphibs are simply the icing on the cake, and good VP's too!

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

So, what I'm really saying is that in early '44 with the A7M and the right location, I can still take on the allies. Naval strike, I don't know what I'm gonna hit, I don't get that choice. But whether it is the CV's or the CVE's or the amphibs, I should be able to get through AND I have a reasonable chance to survive to fight another day. This is an alpha strike as I won't have kami's yet (most likely based upon date and geography in my example here). Plus in PI, very hard to get enough kami into range fast enough to attack in numbers. Too many places to land, too hard to see allies coming, too many kami have too short of range. But, I can have a lot of Frank/George that can LRCAP my KB ....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
To get the Sam in early 44 is almost an 18 month acceleration. [:(]

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
To get the Sam in early 44 is almost an 18 month acceleration. [:(]

I know, tough to do and takes a bit of luck ... as I said ...

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ORIGINAL: Xargun

I see you are concerned with the allies having the repair yards at Manila, what about Hong Kong?

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ORIGINAL: Lowpe

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ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
To get the Sam in early 44 is almost an 18 month acceleration. [:(]

I know, tough to do and takes a bit of luck ... as I said ...

I have not followed any Japanese player that allocated that amount of resources to get the Sam that early. In fact the opposite is true, most JFB currently seem content to have the A6M8.

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ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

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ORIGINAL: Lowpe

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ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
To get the Sam in early 44 is almost an 18 month acceleration. [:(]

I know, tough to do and takes a bit of luck ... as I said ...

I have not followed any Japanese player that allocated that amount of resources to get the Sam that early. In fact the opposite is true, most JFB currently seem content to have the A6M8.

I know.

My playing and testing has convinced me that the stats on the two planes accurately reflect the outcomes. 42mph and 2x20mm more shows up big. A6M8 can barely holds its own against F6F, beyond that (F4U, F7F, F8F) its just VP's for harvest. A7M isn't stellar, but it can hold it own against that group.

Yep, I play only the AI or Head2Head. But before you write me off, remember that I'm talking about logistical strategy and in PBEM its the same as AI. Why? The allied logistics is fixed and known. They will get such and such unit on this date, so many aircraft then. period. Thus, the IJ economic and logistical strategies developed against the AI have considerable merit irrespective of the game type, because effectively you are playing the allied AI in terms of the economies, the allied player has NO control. My opinion. Everyone can go where they want.

I believe most players settle for the A6M8 because they simply are not willing to invest, and I understand that. IT takes a BIG investment AND a little luck to pull that aircraft in 15 - 18 months. I've played enough games from various starting points, and a lot of endgame scenarios that I'm now pointing at '45. I'm not worried about 42/43. It hardly matters what you build until late '43 BECAUSE you can build more than the allies by a wide margin. If you have 2:1 odds in a dogfight, plane performance is overshadowed by the numbers unless the disparity is huge (F6F vs Claude huge). Until late '43 the IJ can always have 2:1 if the player chooses. The allied fighter pool is fixed AND known to most players. It is simple math to build more, and overall even the Oscar in '43 is better than the AVERAGE allied fighter. The allies don't only build TBolts, right? Mohawks, Martletts, Fireflys, Beaufighters, Buffalos, etc. Even the first spits are just on par.

To me, the trick is how thin can you run until about mid 44 as IJ so that you have been able to pile up this massive war chest of reserves from 6/44 to 6/46? 30 months of saving to finance 24 months of going full bore.

For the IJA, Frank is pretty obvious and simple. For the IJN, to me, it is also clear just not nearly as simple: A7M. That's me though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus


For PDU:On, George and/or Jack seem a better investment than going so heavy into Sam. The scenario that you lay out... of investing large amounts of supply into Sam research and then trying to get Sam in early 44... and then trying to attack allied CVEs could work... if Japan still has all of its aircraft carriers. That is unlikely, however.

With regard to 43 and using whatever aircraft is available, what you want, in addition to keeping allied fighter pools dismal, is to maintain high pilot quality well into 1944, while preventing the allies from building a cadre of elite pilots. That is where Tojo and Tony shine above Oscar. It is bad enough trying to battle P-47s, et al, if your pilots are consistently worse than allied pilots. If you pilots are better, however, well... then the odds are evened up.

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ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
[image]local://upfiles/29386/03354A2E526449E18E6C86BA19CC7A4C.jpg[/image]

quote:

Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 44 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 90
B5N2 Kate x 116
D3A1 Val x 134

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed by flak
B5N2 Kate: 1 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 11 damaged
D3A1 Val: 4 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 15, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 15, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 10, heavy fires
DD Hull, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AM Bobolink, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
BB California, Bomb hits 13, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 8
DD Bagley, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 14, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 3
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 2
AVP Avocet, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Phelps, Bomb hits 1
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1
SS Dolphin, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
AR Vestal, Bomb hits 1
DM Breese, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Raleigh, Torpedo hits 1
DD Blue, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1
SS Cachalot, Bomb hits 1
CM Oglala, Bomb hits 1

Repair Shipyard hits 14
Port hits 27
Port fuel hits 2

quote:

Day Time Surface Combat, near Balabac at 70,83, Range 19,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
F1M2 Pete: 6 destroyed

Japanese Ships
DMS W-4, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
PB Eiko Maru, Shell hits 9, and is sunk
AV Sagara Maru, Shell hits 18, and is sunk
xAK Gosei Maru, Shell hits 8, and is sunk
xAK Meiten Maru, Shell hits 15, and is sunk
xAK Nojima Maru, Shell hits 10, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CA Houston, Shell hits 2

Japanese ground losses:
3328 casualties reported
Squads: 73 destroyed, 96 disabled
Non Combat: 77 destroyed, 74 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 36 (20 destroyed, 16 disabled)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Take and hold Horn Island...the reefs there multiply mine effectiveness, and you can build the bases behind it to really support Horn...making an invasion there require CVs.

The island to the south west can be used to bomb Cloncurry.

Good plans...I would grab Adak in the winter early...I suspect Lok will look four times at an early Kurile campaign if you don't. But perhaps you want that?

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ORIGINAL: Lowpe


Good plans...I would grab Adak in the winter early...I suspect Lok will look four times at an early Kurile campaign if you don't. But perhaps you want that?

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ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

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ORIGINAL: Lowpe


Good plans...I would grab Adak in the winter early...I suspect Lok will look four times at an early Kurile campaign if you don't. But perhaps you want that?

Adak is a good news/bad news thing. Yes, it's very valuable for several reasons. But it's expensive to hold. It has to be well-supplied if it has the division-plus it must have to stand after circa June 1942. The Aleutians are the single best place for the USN to operate in 1942 in an integrated way. The geography is a tunnel, there is incredibly strong backing to the rear. Adak is great to have if you have infinite Japanese resources. But you don't, and for that reason, were I Japan, I'd throw any Adak investments at Noumea, Fiji, and Pago Pago. Noumea and Fiji are the single WORST USN operating environment in 1942. And the VP take there dwarfs Adak.

quote:

Ships moving in a cold zone are twice as likely to be damaged.