Sealion Defenses (Full Version)

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Trump2016 -> Sealion Defenses (4/6/2017 10:29:36 AM)

Any chance that the "pillbox" unit could be activated for use, and/or allow the the purchase of a coastal gun for the defense of Britain? I think it is far too easy to invade Britain in this game.



vonik -> RE: Sealion Defenses (4/6/2017 1:37:15 PM)

How is it easy when you control the Channel with the RN ?
And starting with end 40 you have enough UK units on the southern coast anyway so that there is no way the German can invade with a mere Amphibious 1 .
Don't forget that if the invasion doesn't capture a port in the first turn, it is doomed .



Trump2016 -> RE: Sealion Defenses (4/6/2017 2:08:52 PM)

a determined axis player can fight effectively for the channel, subs kill surface ships, axis air kills everything else (especially in 1941). axis air simply destroys the defending unit in a port, and amph lands unopposed.
Not to mention Italian ships that appear (or at least draw off a large portion of the fleet)

your axis opponents must really suck!



vonik -> RE: Sealion Defenses (4/6/2017 2:58:35 PM)

Well it was you complaining that you didn't know how to defend UK against Sealion.
An Allied player who lets the Channel control to Axis while his destroyers (air defence 1) outnumber the German subs sucks .

In 41 an even average Allied should have at least 3 Advanced 1 fighter units in UK not counting 4 carriers . All that plus Allied bombers is hammering German bombers .
And if the Allied achieves long range before the German, then it is he who goes on air offensive .
I doubt that the German air can kill much of anything and certainly not entrenched armies (air defence 1 or 2) in ports .

After all it's only about holding out untill US enters war and after that the only invasion which threatens is the Allied invasion of continental Europe .



Trump2016 -> RE: Sealion Defenses (4/6/2017 3:27:22 PM)

have you actually defended against a competent axis player, or just talking out your ass?



IrishGuards -> RE: Sealion Defenses (4/6/2017 4:16:06 PM)

hey deadshade'
nay wake the giant eh'

apparently its time for a few games eh'
[X(]
IG



IrishGuards -> RE: Sealion Defenses (4/6/2017 4:22:29 PM)

U nay gonna like this guy eh J ...
He's a gambit pull out of everywhere in the med.
Gib, malta, cyprus, syria, tunisia, algeria, he's very adept at manipulating Italy DoW.
The event trigger w Nor and Den in Apr sends Italy to War. !!
[&o]
IG



bullet911 -> RE: Sealion Defenses (4/7/2017 9:38:00 AM)

Am yet actualy try this, but in one of my games(as axis PBEM) the french unit sent help the fins winter war was still in britain after france had surrendered... if the allied player was able to get any french units across the channel to help defend a sealion before france surrenders would they stay in britain as free french or disappear?
Also what if they are still in transport ships going across the Mediterranean towards egypt or britain?



FriendlyKomissar -> RE: Sealion Defenses (4/7/2017 8:56:41 PM)

Its random if any French units remain in Britain after France falls. Sometimes they do, most of the times they don't.

Original SC1 I know French Air units stayed but land/naval units were random. In SC3 they all appear random, and there isn't much chance either (1/3 is my guess)


And to the original topic if the allied player drops the ball, there is every chance a determined axis player can do a successful sealion.

Transferring the entire Royal Navy into the channel will not help against the Luftwaffe, you will lose 2 - 3 ships per turn. Given the MMP you can pretty much indefinitely reinforce the RAF, but that leaves no MMP for the ground defence. Then if you are trying to defend Egypt it becomes much less likely. Also because Britain isn't very big, by the time you can order replacement armies more often than not the Axis are in Manchester. If Manchester falls, you are not able to deploy any more land units in Britain. I think this is flawed as the North/Scotland would probably continue the fight but who knows.

What I cannot understand is how the German Units can remain in supply when the ports are still in allied hands (through the use of ships).

Spoken from bitter experience.



battlevonwar -> RE: Sealion Defenses (4/7/2017 9:02:01 PM)






The British have two options. Devote their Navy to Defend England, or let England go relatively cheap. There are enough land units to do a good job of defending The British Isles enough to cost a bit.

The British can move to Egypt or Canada? There you are they aren't out of the war and the British Isles aren't the end of the game. Now if the British let things go too cheap I really think that's their own fault. I wouldn't do that! I would rather lose my entire fleet then give away the knife in the Reich's back.

Germany has a timeframe too, she has to make it affordable!

Why don't you guys hotseat UK defense, instead of guessing at it in multiplayer or against an AI that I'm afraid is woefully inadequate at answering a very simple question. What does it take to protect England and what does it take to eat England? Some skill levels will vary at the task. 1 to 2 hours of Hotseat should answer 80% of your questions!





battlevonwar -> RE: Sealion Defenses (4/7/2017 9:07:23 PM)

FriendlyKomissar, ole SC player aye? Remember people retreating with the entire French Army to the UK? Was very gamy, they patched that up as they went along. I think the rules they put in place are about balance but heck I wouldn't know I would have to play for years to understand the infinite wisdom of The Devs and BetaTesters who probably put in a lot of time. Despite ahistorical points. I heard the British Home Army was HUGEEEEE(and almost quoting one a regular not the weak token force we are lead to believe)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FriendlyKomissar

Its random if any French units remain in Britain after France falls. Sometimes they do, most of the times they don't.

Original SC1 I know French Air units stayed but land/naval units were random. In SC3 they all appear random, and there isn't much chance either (1/3 is my guess)


And to the original topic if the allied player drops the ball, there is every chance a determined axis player can do a successful sealion.

Transferring the entire Royal Navy into the channel will not help against the Luftwaffe, you will lose 2 - 3 ships per turn. Given the MMP you can pretty much indefinitely reinforce the RAF, but that leaves no MMP for the ground defence. Then if you are trying to defend Egypt it becomes much less likely. Also because Britain isn't very big, by the time you can order replacement armies more often than not the Axis are in Manchester. If Manchester falls, you are not able to deploy any more land units in Britain. I think this is flawed as the North/Scotland would probably continue the fight but who knows.

What I cannot understand is how the German Units can remain in supply when the ports are still in allied hands (through the use of ships).

Spoken from bitter experience.




FriendlyKomissar -> RE: Sealion Defenses (4/7/2017 10:06:50 PM)

Old SC player yes. I still have it , if anyone feels nostalgic? ;)

it used to infuriate me to no end, when I noticed only 4 hexes of the Maginot Line were being defended, and the other player off'd all the units to jolly old england :)

But that being said, the British player does have a choice whether to defend it or not. I just misjudged my opponent who made a late dive for Sealion and seems to be winning.



Trump2016 -> RE: Sealion Defenses (4/8/2017 5:58:29 PM)

While i stand by my original comment, that Sealion should be much harder to do, i also believe that carrier aircraft should not be able to intercept land based air. i don't recall too many carrier fighters intercepting German air during the battle of Britain.

That option should really only be available to Japan/American carriers in the Pacific.



crispy131313 -> RE: Sealion Defenses (4/8/2017 6:43:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EaglesNest

While i stand by my original comment, that Sealion should be much harder to do, i also believe that carrier aircraft should not be able to intercept land based air. i don't recall too many carrier fighters intercepting German air during the battle of Britain.

That option should really only be available to Japan/American carriers in the Pacific.

I would argue that it just wasn't necessary, as land based aircraft could be used in most situations except for Atlantic convoy lanes.

And thought it was unnecessary it should not be impossible in the game.



LiquidSky -> RE: Sealion Defenses (4/9/2017 5:39:04 AM)


There is nothing wrong with carrier based aircraft intercepting land based air....it happened all the time.

The problem is the British carrier based planes suck...so they didn't do it during the Battle of Britain...

The Fairey Fulmar is not exactly an air superiority plane.....and the biplanes they used as bombers not particularly suited to bombing ground troops.

In the med they certainly tangled with land based planes....and when they upgraded to a better single seat fighter they could match them.



Trump2016 -> RE: Sealion Defenses (4/9/2017 3:52:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky


There is nothing wrong with carrier based aircraft intercepting land based air....it happened all the time.

The problem is the British carrier based planes suck...so they didn't do it during the Battle of Britain...

The Fairey Fulmar is not exactly an air superiority plane.....and the biplanes they used as bombers not particularly suited to bombing ground troops.

In the med they certainly tangled with land based planes....and when they upgraded to a better single seat fighter they could match them.


All the time, really!, please note that I am not including the Pacific campaign. only thing i can think off is during the invasion of Italy in a support role, but then Allied land based air from Sicily would have gained the air superiority needed for Carriers to operate safely.
A British aircraft carrier maybe had 60 aircraft (of which half being fighters) against, what a land based air unit of 200+ fighters.



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