Special Forces question..... (Full Version)

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sven -> Special Forces question..... (5/19/2001 10:47:00 AM)

I have been wondering what benefit if any one gets from buying dedicated 'Airborne' units. I have experimented with airdropping various types of infantry(e.g. rifle squad, mg squad, FJ squad, and commandos). The only difference I have been able to discern is that in MOST cases the dedicated jumpers don't suffer as much suppression. Were the Airborne units put in mostly for 'historical accuracy'? thanks, sven ;)



Warrior -> (5/19/2001 10:54:00 AM)

I don't know about the historical accuracy, but I always get them when I can (and almost never for jumps) 'cause they're bad-ass fighters! [ May 18, 2001: Message edited by: REMF ]



troopie -> (5/19/2001 12:16:00 PM)

That lesser suppression and the fact that paras are rated elite, seems to be the differences in the game. In reality paras were the only troops, other than some special forces, trained to jump out of airplanes. If you dropped untrained men out of airplanes, most would probably die on impact. Most of the rest would be injured. troopie



nimu -> (5/19/2001 3:37:00 PM)

Well,i think that in order to be historically accurated the airbone troops do not need anything else that a better training and a lack of suppression when jumping.In fact in the ww2 the paratroops weren't utilized many times as a special force unity;most of the time they were put in the first lines as normal infantry.General Student for example always complain about the polverization that suffered his airb.division in 44 after being divided in many little groups and used as first line infantry all over the eastern and the western front.The only real airbone operation in ww2 were the Alberto's bridge and the fortress(in Belgium,do not remember the name!)in 1940 and the Crete operation,.......and of course the Market Garden one.........no,i was missing the allied's troops deploying in Normandy!!! Regards



Mikimoto -> (5/19/2001 6:13:00 PM)

Hello. To Urquhart: It was Eben Mael fortress, in Holland. To Sven: In my humble opinion there is a compromise about parachute capabilities. If you restrict it to only parachute class troops, you must create new classes: MG teams, Inf-AT, Snipers, Light-mortar squads, etc.. with airborne capabilities. But there is a great problem in expanding the number of slots in the OOb files (you know the germans and others are full). Given this problem, the game lets everybody to jump from an airplane. If you restrict to parachute only, the paras will jump without support, bazookas, Machineguns, and all of them were formed wiht paras, too.



Narrowmaster -> (5/19/2001 7:19:00 PM)

quote:

"That lesser suppression and the fact that paras are rated elite, seems to be the differences in the game. In reality paras were the only troops, other than some special forces, trained to jump out of airplanes. If you dropped untrained men out of airplanes, most would probably die on impact. Most of the rest would be injured. troopie"
Not to split hairs with you, but I have to disagree that being untrained in parachute operations would result in most being killed on impact or injured. I know from personal experience that jumping is stressful, physically demanding and requires a great deal of mental conditioning to do well, but truth be told, its not magic. Everything a jumper absoutlutly MUST know can be taught in an hour, if all you want him to do is fall from a perfectly good aircraft. There are some basic things like the rules of the air: Lower jumper has the right of way, always turn right to avoid collision, keep your feet and knees together, ect. The training paratroopers go through makes them better at it, and prevents injury/dangerous situations/stalled jumpers (folks who get to the door and decide at the last minute "Nope, not me buddy.", but it can be done by anyone in reasonable shape with a healthy pair of, ahem,....well you get the idea. Nowadays, the difference between leg infantry and paratroopers is a little more pronounced-alot more money goes into providing training opprotunities for the guys at Bragg and the latest and greatest in force multipling equipment. Back then, it was more of a way to get to work.



troopie -> (5/19/2001 11:31:00 PM)

I am also parachute trained, and it took me more than an hour to learn everything. Yes, everything can be taught in an hour, but it's not learned until it's second nature. Perhaps most would not be killed, but there would still be aa large percentage of injuries and damaged equipment on landing. A hurry-up parachute course, like the one given to the RAR, takes a couple weeks at least, and you still have problems. troopie



K G von Martinez -> (5/22/2001 4:59:00 PM)

Well, I don't believe you are ready to jump after only one hour. But on the other hand several weeks seems to much. IRL two companies of Gebirgsjägerregiment 137 jumped in May 1940 as reinforcements near Narvik after 7 days of training (source: Alex Buchner, Gebirgsjäger an allen Fronten).



Paul Vebber -> (5/23/2001 1:15:00 AM)

test



Larry Holt -> (5/23/2001 1:50:00 AM)

Then again there were the Soviets who jumped without parachutes. They just crawled out onto the wings of those big cargo aircraft (name unknown to me) and slid off into deep snow banks. IIRC they suffered 50% casualities (at least minor sprains) but still managed to become an annoyance behind German lines.



Mikimoto -> (5/23/2001 2:53:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Urquhart: The only real airbone operation in ww2 were the Alberto's bridge and the fortress(in Belgium,do not remember the name!)in 1940 and the Crete operation,.......and of course the Market Garden one.........no,i was missing the allied's troops deploying in Normandy!!! Regards
You don't remember the soviet operations at Kanev. Bloody one. ;)



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