Squad Disablements (Full Version)

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palioboy2 -> Squad Disablements (5/29/2017 4:28:40 PM)

I'm sure this has been asked but I haven't been able to find a satisfactory answer in the manual or through searching here.

How long does it normally take squads and other devices to become undisabled?

What effects this time? I assume sufficient support and supply are important. Does it make a difference what mode they are in? Being in a base vs not? Does the size of the base matter?

I assume you want a leader with a high admin rating.

I am fighting off a Japanese invasion of Oz and I launched a few counter attacks that worked out very well as far and disrupting my opponents initiative... until I launched one too many and mangled a few of my divisions. Any advice on getting these units back into fighting shape would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers




MakeeLearn -> RE: Squad Disablements (5/29/2017 6:15:21 PM)

"When a unit’s fatigue level gets high, elements of the unit will slowly become disabled. When a unit has more disabled elements than non-disabled, it will begin to have elements destroyed instead of just disabled due to high fatigue. "


Leaders help... Inspiration/Administration

[image]local://upfiles/55056/F5603F9B3D69443A8308BF909DCACD4C.jpg[/image]




Aurorus -> RE: Squad Disablements (5/29/2017 6:24:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: palioboy2

I'm sure this has been asked but I haven't been able to find a satisfactory answer in the manual or through searching here.

How long does it normally take squads and other devices to become undisabled?

What effects this time? I assume sufficient support and supply are important. Does it make a difference what mode they are in? Being in a base vs not? Does the size of the base matter?

I assume you want a leader with a high admin rating.

I am fighting off a Japanese invasion of Oz and I launched a few counter attacks that worked out very well as far and disrupting my opponents initiative... until I launched one too many and mangled a few of my divisions. Any advice on getting these units back into fighting shape would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers


See my AAR for some helpful tips on how to get disabled squads up and going again. You can get it up to about 8% of total combat strength per day, using the methods that I outline. Administration skill of unit leader is important. Also administration skill and inspiration skill (esepcially in the malaria zone to keep fatigue and disruption low) of any HQ in range. In a base with good supply: the larger the base, the better. If the unit has destroyed squads as well as disabled, an interconnected set of bases with 20K supply each will increase replacement rates as well. In my AAR, I show how I got a combat engineer unit, with 46 of 48 squads disabled, back to full strength in 12 days using these techniques.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=4266859

I forgot to mention support. Lots of support squads, either from an HQ or a base force.




palioboy2 -> RE: Squad Disablements (5/29/2017 7:14:06 PM)

Okay it sounds like I am doing about all I can do then. I'll have to go through my HQ units and double check their Admin levels.

Thanks for the help!




Lowpe -> RE: Squad Disablements (5/31/2017 3:26:00 AM)

Does aggression really play no part in land combat units? Not my experience! And that makes me question the veracity of the chart...for what it leaves out.[:'(]

I also think Naval might play a part in air squadrons performing naval strikes.

I probably could think of more omissions, but I fear I might be incorrect and don't want to create urban myths of the game.[;)]




Aurorus -> RE: Squad Disablements (5/31/2017 4:19:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Does aggression really play no part in land combat units? Not my experience! And that makes me question the veracity of the chart...for what it leaves out.[:'(]

I also think Naval might play a part in air squadrons performing naval strikes.

I probably could think of more omissions, but I fear I might be incorrect and don't want to create urban myths of the game.[;)]



I do not think that the chart is definitive. For example, aggression for Air HQ leaders and CVTF commanders most certainly increases the chance of launching a strike at long range, into known CAP, and at less significant targets. Air skill for air HQs certainly increases the probably of good strike coordination and sweeps coming in ahead of bomber raids. Naval skill does far more for TF commanders than increase the chance of crossing the T. It increases the chance of escorts "covering" transports, for example in surface combat. Aggression certainly increases the probably of torpedos being launched and will also increase the likelihood of ships closing on the enemy in surface combat.

I know that there have been tests run regarding administration skill and recovery of disabled squads that suggest that administration has no effect on the recovery of disabled squads. This runs counter to the game literature and to my experience. For empirical evidence of my experience about administration skill, I point to the example of the engineer unit that I show in my AAR. I show screenshots of this unit to demonstrate that I recovered it to full strength from 96% disabled in 12 days. This was not an isolated case. I recovered all of the units on Luzon in my game to full strength in 2 weeks.




Chris21wen -> RE: Squad Disablements (5/31/2017 6:57:47 AM)

For me rest is best in a well stocked base.  For contested hexes put units in reserve and keep the supply moving.  As others have said leader with good Admin also helps.




GetAssista -> RE: Squad Disablements (5/31/2017 11:42:12 AM)

I have tested rest and recuparation here http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4211316
This is the recap of my results
quote:

Batch of tests #4: rest and recuperation
Dozens of 100% disabled divisions in base and non-bases hexes in rest mode, combined with lots of support units (HQs with lots of support squads) in combat mode.
Main finding #1 (surprising) is that Admin skill of Div commander plays absolutely no role in how quickly squads would repair. Other skills also do not correlate with repair speed.
Main finding #2 (a bit surprising) is that IDs seem to repair slightly faster in a developed base hex compared to non-base, but not that much faster. In 60 turns standard TOE IDs repaired about 23-30% in base and 16-25% in non-base hexes.
Main finding #3 (not surprising) is that ABC-divided IDs repair significantly (~2 times) faster compared to whole IDs.




Aurorus -> RE: Squad Disablements (5/31/2017 9:57:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

I have tested rest and recuparation here http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4211316
This is the recap of my results
quote:

Batch of tests #4: rest and recuperation
Dozens of 100% disabled divisions in base and non-bases hexes in rest mode, combined with lots of support units (HQs with lots of support squads) in combat mode.
Main finding #1 (surprising) is that Admin skill of Div commander plays absolutely no role in how quickly squads would repair. Other skills also do not correlate with repair speed.
Main finding #2 (a bit surprising) is that IDs seem to repair slightly faster in a developed base hex compared to non-base, but not that much faster. In 60 turns standard TOE IDs repaired about 23-30% in base and 16-25% in non-base hexes.
Main finding #3 (not surprising) is that ABC-divided IDs repair significantly (~2 times) faster compared to whole IDs.




I examined your test results to try to understand why I have been able to consistently achieve better results than your tests recorded. I wish I knew more about how exactly you conducted those tests. I am often able to achieve 8% per day of unit strength recovered from disabled, given optimum conditions. Since I am usually trying to have replacements added to the unit as well as recovering disabled sqauds, my optimum conditions include several factors that supposedly do not have any bearing on recovering disabled squads. It is difficult to say, therefore, which factors are the most significant in my set of "optimum" conditions. These optimum conditions include: a base with 20K supply, better a group of bases, connected by good supply paths, all with 20K supply (this improves replacement cycle checks but is not stated to have any effect on recovering disabled squads), a high administration unit leader, a high inspiration and administration HQ in command range, a large base (the larger the better, of this, I am certain), unit is in "rest" mode, and ample support (the more the better).

Therefore, I cannot say for certain that administration affects the recovery rate, as I have never isolated this variable. I can say for certain, that under the above set of conditions, the recovery of disabled squads rate is much, much higher than if none of these conditions are present.




BBfanboy -> RE: Squad Disablements (6/1/2017 3:17:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

I have tested rest and recuparation here http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4211316
This is the recap of my results
quote:

Batch of tests #4: rest and recuperation
Dozens of 100% disabled divisions in base and non-bases hexes in rest mode, combined with lots of support units (HQs with lots of support squads) in combat mode.
Main finding #1 (surprising) is that Admin skill of Div commander plays absolutely no role in how quickly squads would repair. Other skills also do not correlate with repair speed.
Main finding #2 (a bit surprising) is that IDs seem to repair slightly faster in a developed base hex compared to non-base, but not that much faster. In 60 turns standard TOE IDs repaired about 23-30% in base and 16-25% in non-base hexes.
Main finding #3 (not surprising) is that ABC-divided IDs repair significantly (~2 times) faster compared to whole IDs.




I examined your test results to try to understand why I have been able to consistently achieve better results than your tests recorded. I wish I knew more about how exactly you conducted those tests. I am often able to achieve 8% per day of unit strength recovered from disabled, given optimum conditions. Since I am usually trying to have replacements added to the unit as well as recovering disabled sqauds, my optimum conditions include several factors that supposedly do not have any bearing on recovering disabled squads. It is difficult to say, therefore, which factors are the most significant in my set of "optimum" conditions. These optimum conditions include: a base with 20K supply, better a group of bases, connected by good supply paths, all with 20K supply (this improves replacement cycle checks but is not stated to have any effect on recovering disabled squads), a high administration unit leader, a high inspiration and administration HQ in command range, a large base (the larger the better, of this, I am certain), unit is in "rest" mode, and ample support (the more the better).

Therefore, I cannot say for certain that administration affects the recovery rate, as I have never isolated this variable. I can say for certain, that under the above set of conditions, the recovery of disabled squads rate is much, much higher than if none of these conditions are present.


I think the unit experience level may play into the recovery rates. It does seem to have an impact on the degree of malarial effects.




GetAssista -> RE: Squad Disablements (6/1/2017 6:09:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus
I examined your test results to try to understand why I have been able to consistently achieve better results than your tests recorded.

I was aiming not for max speed of recovery in my tests, but for differentiating factors. So far those turned out to be base vs non-base and divided vs non-divided LCUs. Commander stats did not manifest themselves as a factor, and I believe I had enough observations to make this conclusion. In fact far more observations (unedr same conditions, from same starting point etc) that a typical player has in a typical game.
Your 8% max comes from initial stages where mechanical devices repair. Squads are much more slow to come online, so % speed suffers. Also you might have disablements+replacements, mine were pure disablements. It is a simple test to be done, I would welcome anyone repeating it in their own setting. Am really uncomfortable that commanders do not seem to contribute.




Aurorus -> RE: Squad Disablements (6/1/2017 7:33:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus
I examined your test results to try to understand why I have been able to consistently achieve better results than your tests recorded.

I was aiming not for max speed of recovery in my tests, but for differentiating factors. So far those turned out to be base vs non-base and divided vs non-divided LCUs. Commander stats did not manifest themselves as a factor, and I believe I had enough observations to make this conclusion. In fact far more observations (unedr same conditions, from same starting point etc) that a typical player has in a typical game.
Your 8% max comes from initial stages where mechanical devices repair. Squads are much more slow to come online, so % speed suffers. Also you might have disablements+replacements, mine were pure disablements. It is a simple test to be done, I would welcome anyone repeating it in their own setting. Am really uncomfortable that commanders do not seem to contribute.



In several units, it was disablements exclusively. This is where I achieve 8% recovery rate. Replacements take a bit longer, and seem to slow down as a unit approaches 100% of its TOE. Most of the units in question were infantry regiments and divisions, so there were very few vehicles. I set up this R&R zones and change out unit commander regularly against the AI to high administration commanders, so it is one of my standard practices.

I am thinking, at this point, that the most decisive factor may be multiple bases with good supply paths and over 20K supply. This supposedly only helps with replacements and not with disabled squads, but recovery of disabled squads certainly seem better everywhere that I produce these conditions. If you are bored, you could test this.. lol.




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