Where is the Red Army? (Full Version)

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Vadrus -> Where is the Red Army? (6/14/2017 5:10:14 AM)

Hey guys, I'm rolling into 1941 and facing an inevitable attack from the Axis so I keep wondering where is the Red Army?

I know there are more forces spawn when attacked but prior to reserves being called up the Soviets fielded almost as many troops prior to Barbarossa as the Axis forces. 3m to 3.2m I believe.

I do not see enough units to cover the frontier in any kind of approximation of a line at all which is very ahistorical. Where are the troops?

I am no asking about reserves called up after the attack but the standing Red Army in june 41. And yes Ive been building Corps as fast as I can.

I barely have enough to form a line around Leningrad and Moscow, the rest of Russia is bare.

Oh and there is no Red airforce to speak of yet by 41 it was probably the largest in the world, if largely obsolete.

How do you get a historically sized army and airforce in the game?



vonik -> RE: Where is the Red Army? (6/14/2017 9:16:34 AM)

In this game you never build lines .
The supply rules are so constraining and you have so few HQs that moving far from towns is useless . The German won't go far from their supply lines either because at 0 supply they can only move 1 hex and their moral is fast destroyed .
So the battles take only place around towns and along railways/roads .
With 1.05 you have largely enough to defend the towns - you should have seen 1.03 where at the start of Barbarossa you had not even enough units to defend vital towns and Pz just simply rolled in .

SC needs a very careful thinking about where and when you will put your units .
I agree that the gameplay is very different from other wargames where the manoeuver, movement and building of pockets is the core of the strategy but with experience you will get the hang of it .



sapper32 -> RE: Where is the Red Army? (6/14/2017 9:29:54 AM)

After my experience in my first PBEM as Allies only defend what you have too the Panzers will run around you and smash your units to bits everytime, The Axis airpower will be incredible and will dominate the battlefield



Vadrus -> RE: Where is the Red Army? (6/14/2017 4:05:47 PM)

Thanks for the responses.

I understand that the game is more abstract that say War in the East but not having a line or front line on the eastern front is rather immersion breaking for me. If the gameplay does not simulate lines, breakthroughs and pocket creation on the eastern front then it does not simulate the reality of the eastern front and warfare of the period and is therefore a failure as a wargame.

But even ignoring issues of verisimilitude on game play there is a very real lack of a Red Airfoce for example. It should be at least as large as the Luftwaffe at the start of the war, if of poorer quality. Arguably it should be far larger but how one simulates realistic OOB with such an abstraction as corps or armies is admittedly fuzzy.





Hubert Cater -> RE: Where is the Red Army? (6/14/2017 4:50:42 PM)

Hi Vadrus,

A good chunk of the Soviet historical units will only be placed in game and along the front lines once the Soviets enter the war, and typically this happens when the Axis declare war on the USSR.

The main reason for this is that with hindsight being 20/20, if players had these units available at the start they would simply remove them from the historical front line positions and out of range of the initial Axis attacks and it would significantly throw off game balance.

This way the surprise of war is rec-created for the Soviets as they appear in game in the historical areas and tend to be destroyed in the first turn by an effective Axis attack as happened historically as well. If not then any surviving units can be withdrawn and rebuilt and reused later on during the course of the invasion.

However, if the Axis do not attack and the Soviets enter the war on their own, then these units also appear and since they are not destroyed as is typically done from an Axis invasion, they are then in place to be used by the Soviets as they see fit.

Essentially the best of both worlds, i.e. you will receive your historical units, they are likely to be destroyed as they were historically, and if not you have the benefit of the survivors as would have happened historically as well, without any gaminess on the part of the Allied side to the disadvantage of the Axis.

Hope this helps,
Hubert



Leadwieght -> RE: Where is the Red Army? (6/18/2017 1:51:13 AM)

Hi Vardus,

Regarding the lack of front lines on the Ostfront, that's generally the case only in 1941. During Barbarossa, the Wehrmacht is usually able to punch through most Soviet units and grab cities and towns without having to encircle them. And the Red Army (in game terms, if not IRL) in 1941 has so few units that the only viable strategy is to set up speedbumps and roadblocks in as many cities and towns as possible.

But this changes if the Soviets survive into 1942. As the number of units increases, the Soviets will start to be able to create lines, and the Germans perforce have to match them. It's really in 1942 and 1943 that you can see a real Kesselschlacht.

LW



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