Getting murdered as Soviets in '41

Getting murdered as Soviets in '41 (Full Version)

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Searry -> Getting murdered as Soviets in '41 (6/21/2017 5:24:01 PM)
Even very deep defense in depth doesn't work and somehow the Finns are now able to attack in the far north through the no attack line. What can I do to keep the Panzers at bay? The lines were at least 5 deep at some point and somehow the Germans have the MP to do whatever they ever wanted. In another game I lost the whole northwest and now I have over 300 AP to spend on something but I don't even know if I want to save the manpower or attack during the winter. In other 2 games as Germany it's just too easy. The game is just concentrate Panzers and win. How do you manage to keep land as the Soviets in '41?

HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Getting murdered as Soviets in '41 (6/21/2017 5:46:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Searry Even very deep defense in depth doesn't work and somehow the Finns are now able to attack in the far north through the no attack line. What can I do to keep the Panzers at bay? The lines were at least 5 deep at some point and somehow the Germans have the MP to do whatever they ever wanted. In another game I lost the whole northwest and now I have over 300 AP to spend on something but I don't even know if I want to save the manpower or attack during the winter. In other 2 games as Germany it's just too easy. The game is just concentrate Panzers and win. How do you manage to keep land as the Soviets in '41? Who are your games against? Do you have some screen shots to share?

Searry -> RE: Getting murdered as Soviets in '41 (6/21/2017 5:52:38 PM)
Highlander and theleopard2222. Not sure if I want to share some screenshots as they can reveal my troops, but you can imagine what happens when I play this game for the first time as the Soviets, or the Germans. I'm just lost at what to do really and need some pointers on how to survive the onslaught. If defense or attack never works should I always just retreat? What are the strategies in this game?

Telemecus -> RE: Getting murdered as Soviets in '41 (6/21/2017 5:58:08 PM)
[image]http://i.imgur.com/O2SyQA8.jpg[/image] Bit difficult to answer without knowing the situation - perhaps you can PM us screenshots? I would not worry too much about land, industry is what you want to keep and you can evacuate industry.

HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Getting murdered as Soviets in '41 (6/21/2017 6:17:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Telemecus [image]http://i.imgur.com/O2SyQA8.jpg[/image] Bit difficult to answer without knowing the situation - perhaps you can PM us screenshots? I would not worry too much about land, industry is what you want to keep and you can evacuate industry. Hehehehe, +1 to the like column on this post Telemecus :)

CrazyBear -> RE: Getting murdered as Soviets in '41 (6/21/2017 6:35:24 PM)
I have only played against the AI, But find you really need to pull back the troops , save factories . Pick the defense spots carefully to slow them up all the time layers upon layers in front of Moscow, you will not stop them . Remember trade the Land for time, save what you can in man power . If you have to battle once then pull back have a line behind the retreating force, rested and dug in already , move the other troops past these, to a good spot to rest dig in (Refit) by time you get to Moscow, they should start hitting better trained/rested /dug in troops. Only defend the major rail junctions cites such set up against rivers. It is a complete defensive war till Blizzard, after that you pick weak spots to attack . slowly wearing them down once the factories are in full swing Germany will be lucky for a draw only . Hope this helps

thedude357 -> RE: Getting murdered as Soviets in '41 (6/21/2017 7:28:33 PM)
The soviets did get murdered in 1941. It was practically complete operational surprise followed by incompetent leadership and obsolete forces. It wasn't until about December when the Soviets were actually able to function. You have to ride the wave until winter. You will take massive losses if you stand and fight.

No idea -> RE: Getting murdered as Soviets in '41 (6/21/2017 8:55:30 PM)
Well, yes, you are suppoused to be slaugtered in 1941 (well, until mud comes). Attacks are useless, so dont attack unless you have a good reason (like breaking a pocket) and some hopes of winning (which is rare in 1941). For me the trick is watching the panzers very closely (you know where the hammer will fall where you see them) and run a bit once you guess they are going to let the hammer fall (the t icky part is knowing when they will spring). Try losing few as few units as possible while giving your industry time enough to flee. Basically trade space for time and not losing too many units. And that is all you should do until december.

glvaca -> RE: Getting murdered as Soviets in '41 (6/21/2017 9:15:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: No idea Well, yes, you are suppoused to be slaugtered in 1941 (well, until mud comes). Attacks are useless, so dont attack unless you have a good reason (like breaking a pocket) and some hopes of winning (which is rare in 1941). For me the trick is watching the panzers very closely (you know where the hammer will fall where you see them) and run a bit once you guess they are going to let the hammer fall (the t icky part is knowing when they will spring). Try losing few as few units as possible while giving your industry time enough to flee. Basically trade space for time and not losing too many units. And that is all you should do until december. The most important point is, know when to stand, know when to retreat. It's difficult [;)]

HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Getting murdered as Soviets in '41 (6/21/2017 10:40:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: No idea Well, yes, you are suppoused to be slaugtered in 1941 (well, until mud comes). Attacks are useless, so dont attack unless you have a good reason (like breaking a pocket) and some hopes of winning (which is rare in 1941). For me the trick is watching the panzers very closely (you know where the hammer will fall where you see them) and run a bit once you guess they are going to let the hammer fall (the t icky part is knowing when they will spring). Try losing few as few units as possible while giving your industry time enough to flee. Basically trade space for time and not losing too many units. And that is all you should do until december. I have a different philosophy than many others about attacking with the Soviets on this forum :) If done correctly you can win a great deal of your battles. But you really need to plan these in advance by knowing your German player abilities. To me you can't win unless you attack :) Again the concensus has been on this forum not to attack, but in my opinion, you have to attack. You just need to know when and where to :) By the way, there is no right or wrong way of doing things within the game and if you are unfamiliar with a great many of the mechanics within the game not attacking is sound advice.

Searry -> RE: Getting murdered as Soviets in '41 (6/22/2017 5:23:58 AM)
I've left a big strategic reserve in both games at Moscow just digging for the whole war. I think that might be one of my mistakes. Half a million men not fighting can do some difference.

Stelteck -> RE: Getting murdered as Soviets in '41 (6/22/2017 7:10:58 AM)
Except if you are far better skilled than you opponent, you know you will have a very difficult time as soviet in 1941. And probably in 1942 too. It is really an exploit (or lots of home rules / alternative / historical ways to play) to reach an historical situation where you keep Leningrad, moscow, and important towns in south in 1941. So acknowledge that you will loose everything at start. Then you have now the correct mindset to see what you actually can do, without pressure as it was lost anyway. Discover what germany really want to take, where you can only hope de delay the fall, and try to defend what germany do not want so much, here you may hold. Do not retreat / give too much ground too much without a fight. It would be quite boring for both players, and you will loose the big cities event faster. Do not hesitate to counter attack if you see interesting opportunities (+1 soviet attack bonus help of course). And do not forget to have fun and to try fun things You do not need all these divisions anyways. [:'(]

Searry -> RE: Getting murdered as Soviets in '41 (6/22/2017 1:24:15 PM)
I think I lost one of the games, Moscow and Stalino lost during first turn of winter. Looks like the Axis can launch a big offensive once the mud turns to ice and snow. Didn't expect that at all.

Telemecus -> RE: Getting murdered as Soviets in '41 (6/22/2017 2:07:02 PM)
There is an AAR on these forums showing the Axis getting to the Ural mountains - and then losing as the Soviets took Berlin on time. Admittedly on a much older version. But worth reading to get a sense of how much the Soviets can lose and still not be beaten.

morvael -> RE: Getting murdered as Soviets in '41 (6/22/2017 2:09:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Searry I think I lost one of the games, Moscow and Stalino lost during first turn of winter. Looks like the Axis can launch a big offensive once the mud turns to ice and snow. Didn't expect that at all. Yes, this last surge is possible before the blizzard hits. Just like in history. Soviet player must be prepared for this. Some Axis players will pause to build forts, but some may try an attack (especially if major target is in reach).

56ajax -> RE: Getting murdered as Soviets in '41 (6/23/2017 2:19:54 AM)
It all depends on the experience of your opponents. Have 3 games going. Game 1, historical, German disappeared after T25 Game 2, T14, doing just ok, made a major blunder in trying to defend leningrad environs, but may make it to the mud weather Game 3, T5, getting slaughtered But reduce your TOES across the board, assign best leaders to correct positions, disband forts, disband unwanted air commands, red airforce will kill more in ground assault than your armies will so manage carefully, try and take out his recon (sometimes an easy target), try and isolate spear heads, if you think that a unit can't get out of the way quick enough then reduce its TOE and leave it adjacent to as many enemy units as possible for increased attrition... There are a few other 1% you can do but really run for it....

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