... and everybody say: are you crazy ?!? (Full Version)

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Elwood1263 -> ... and everybody say: are you crazy ?!? (5/23/2001 6:42:00 AM)

I'm a new player of SPWaW (I begun with 4.5). Usually I don't like wargames, but I spend many (TOO many) nights playing with this wonderful game. I still find some difficults, but I'm reaching a level almost good (in other words, something more than worst :) ). But I think it could be better, maybe. Now it's a wonderful translation of a board wargame: you don't need math, table, ecc.; and the math you need to play with PC reachs the higher levels, impossible with a board game. But it is all: the mechanism (?) of game don't use the power of PCs. For istance it's difficult and laborious (?) understand what you really see with a unit - Guglielmo Cancelli could says "it's no user-friendly!" . Maybe this can be improved if you put a "routine" that allows the player a direct vision of the battlefield. (NOT always: if you like SPWaW maybe you don't need another arcade game, or another simulator of tank war. The best solution is to use the window, a little greater, now used for the weather. This window should change the wiew everytime you click on a unit, or you turn it. Do you really need to see the weather all the time?) Oh, I know: it needs 3D battlefields, and good pictures of tanks and infantry ecc.; but I think the game is ready for this kind of evolution, a little more interesting than the usual right-click. You could start with very simple images, leaving the fans make all the upgrades they wants. I don't think it could be useful. I think it could be nice, now, and maybe wonderful tomorrow. And, if you turn off the lights, you will be a little more in the action. P.S. I know I speak a bad english. Sorry. (But if everybody doesn't like what I say, I can answer: "it was a mistake... it was because of my bad english..." :D ) P.P.S. "Guglielmo Cancelli" is the italian translation of William (Bill) Gates. But maybe I should have found another character... :o



Flashfyre -> (5/23/2001 9:57:00 AM)

And what would this "first-person shooter" perspective add to the overall wargame? Since this is a tactical-strategic level game, there really is no need for a "view" of what the individual units see. All this would do is add more code, make the game bigger :eek: , and cuase alot of confusion. If I want to play an arcade-style shooter game, there are plenty out there. But I like this game the way it is....an "armchair general's" type of game. The challenge is to "out-command" our historic leaders, on all sides of the war, and achieve more victories. Put me down as a firm "no" for any attempt to "arcade-ize" this game.



Don -> (5/23/2001 1:57:00 PM)

Hi Elwood, glad you like the game!
quote:

But it is all: the mechanism (?) of game don't use the power of PCs.
That's probably because this is a fairly old game that started as a DOS game, and many people do not have 1ghz computers, therefore making a game for those would alienate alot of people. I'm also against the "arcade" suggestion, and especially the 3D suggestion. There are games that have these things - I don't think SPWAW needs them. Right now it is all Matrix can do to fix the numerous issues that have popped up as a result of the upgrades, and other features that would need a complete re-writing of code will be a long time coming. What you might do is check out the "Combat Leader" forum - that game is under development. See what's going on and say how you would like to see the game develop.



Warrior -> (5/23/2001 6:44:00 PM)

Welcome aboard!



lnp4668 -> (5/23/2001 7:10:00 PM)

Actually the idea of a window for 1st person view is not bad. Be easier to position your tank for hull down benefit as well as checking the cover for your infantry. However, I don't think the game engine could handle it :(



Morq -> (5/23/2001 9:41:00 PM)

If you want 3D - go and order Combat Mission from hhtp://www.battlefront.com or try the demo first... :cool:



TheZel66 -> (5/24/2001 1:20:00 AM)

3d would add the element of multi-level buildings. Also mainly to enrich the user experience. COmbat Mission is a good start at this. It can only get better!



Flashfyre -> (5/24/2001 1:32:00 AM)

Yes, a "window" would be nice, if you were taking the place of the squad leader of tank commander on the field. But you aren't. You are the battalion/regimental commander, in the rear, directing the overall battle. Therefore, your vision would be a bunch of "staff weenies" running around, bringing you reports from the front. Imagine the amount of processing power needed to collate the views from all 400+ units, in a 360 degree field-of view. Way, way too much glitz for too little reward. Other games handle this by limiting the number of units in the field; a platoon or so of tanks, a company of infantry, etc. How could you do this for entire battalions? No..no..no..again I say no. Forget about the windows and views and all that.



Slayer -> (5/24/2001 2:16:00 AM)

Even with 3D, I more than likely would end up setting the camera for a straight top-down view, to make it easier to navigate the hexes (and PLEASE don't take away my hexes!). Essentially, a straight top-down view would negate ANY benefits of 3D units, because you would just see the top of the tank anyways, and probably with less details than if they were icons. [ May 23, 2001: Message edited by: Slayer ]



chief -> (5/24/2001 2:58:00 AM)

Matrix: Slightly OT, but not too far. Is there anyway in the game engine to increase the size of the overview map (in the future)? :( :cool: [ May 23, 2001: Message edited by: chief ]



ruxius -> (5/24/2001 6:06:00 AM)

I understand so many here who strongly defend the actual graphic view of SPWAW..I understand them because I knew SPWAW since its first ancestor that is SP1..WE have plenty of reasons to say SPWAW it's a great game and I will never thank enough MAtrix for their conservative cut that makes SPWAW a direct offspring of SP1...what SP3 had never been..(IMHO) But on the other hand I can not forget that only facing with bravery the challenge of evolution we all now can enjoy the SPWAW you actually see... Though this may be an idea that will never see its birth..we still have to look at 360 degrees to all the possible innovations... maybe a solution without a revolution can be found.. Clearly this will eventually apply to that new project that MAtrix announced for the 3500 Megacampaign CD sold . That day we can count on a SPWAW totally rewritten and second but not less important..we are talking about an option-like feature(SPWAW delighted us with all its optional buttons) (something that really makes the difference!) And now look at the solutions... We have the right click on units that allow us to see it's data...right click in front of her shows its LOS... That means a simple algorythm that calculates which hexes are to be enlighted or not...but what if we can add a new procedure which opens a window with a statical 3d view of what is spotted in that direction from the unit ? the old 2d algorythm should work in a 3d view with few concept's changes... Nothing that substitutes the 2D view ..but a little step towards SPWAW in 3d.. Anyway I recognize this can add nothing to SPWAW's strategy if it's built only for fun. An isometric 3d view..or an approximation through windows should offer to a player a better support in the art of taking cover through the different nature of terrains... how many of you was never surprised by some enemy units becoming visible in some unexpected positions ? Actually only the entry "ENEMY SEEN : xxx " can help us to get an idea of LOS for units when enlighting of hexes is not so clear..(too coloured hex are not so visible when enlighted..) One of my favourite SPWAW's feature deals with its scale ...a single tank combined with terrain nature give me a new tactical sensation..makes me study either hopeful either painful terrain , trees , slopes and hills , buildings and holes.. A 3d view helping this may be very useful.. Again I say a very simple approach to 3d.. SPWAW totally converted to 3d is a step that may lower this game rather than other



Wild Bill -> (5/24/2001 2:12:00 PM)

Welcome Elwood! Like Ruxius, I have been through ever version of SP there is. In fact I have been on the beta testing team of every version of SP over the last 6 years. This is an older game revamped to meet Windows standards. But as an older game it has limits. The game you want could be produced in the future and probably will be. As others have commented here, the closest thing to what you are seeking in Combat Mission. Personally, I prefer to leave the game as is, and take my role as a company or battalion commander. This one is about as good as SP will ever get. Slayer, it probably could, but it would require a LOT...(so I am told), a lot of work that at this point is just not possible. So say the programmers. Wild Bill



ruxius -> (5/25/2001 4:45:00 AM)

Hey WB !! what an lightening career and experience !!! You may have seen thousands of possible different developments of SP .. We now can see the great SPWAW..but who knows how it could have been ;) Anyway it's true...I can understand programmers..you speak words of hope about future...and now we can believe you !



Elwood1263 -> (5/25/2001 9:02:00 AM)

WOW! I'm still alive! (I can say it here, not so often in the game!) and even Wild Bill "speak words of hope about future"! I would like to to thank everybody for your patience and for your interest, first of all Ruxius (who fully understood what I mean, maybe because he's used to try to understand our pale attempts of english writings) and FlashFyre, who speaks about SPWaW with great passion (but I see some clouds... :) ) Let's try to explain myself better. I DON'T think the game should change. It's a strategic game (for "battalion commanders"), and I like it for this. Arcades and simulators are a little boring for me. But I meet, as "recruit", some difficults in using the right-click. Oh, nothing serious (I'm still playing): it's only a little slow to use, and the red line you get holding the "T" key sometimes iced my martial spirit. You don't need animation (because we don't play in real time, but we use turns): I think something like a photoshot, a static image that changes everytime you move in another static image. If you try to think so you can see 3D is not useful (except for angled targets): maybe is better (and faster to develop) a "fake 3D", like the stage of a theatre or the animation of the firsts jap cartoons. You have all you need in the combat routine: distance, altitude, angle of the target; and YOU KNOW the kind of ground (it's on the map). You need maybe a different routine of zoom and a little work of transforming a lighted horizontal hex in a vertical picture. The real work is collecting the pictures of the hundreds kinds of unit and grounds, and put some filter for the weather. The window is small enough, so you don't need too many details; but however is a giant work. I think Matrixgame should begin it, and leave the fans reaching the perfection (as happens for the icons. I don't forget SPWaW is a free-charge game) I want to repeat me. If you are a SPWaW player, maybe you don't need these estetic changes. I found some difficults, but I loved the game and I did not care. Maybe some other new player doesn't have the will to study the manual, and simply plays another game. If the staff thinks some restyling could be useful to enlarge the ring of player, I tried to give a little help. Thank you again. I almost forget it: now some unit with no HQ contact can see enemy units, and you see them on the map (no other place to put them). No satellites in WWII ! :D



Wild Bill -> (5/25/2001 10:01:00 AM)

Your English is quite clear, my friend. I do understand what you are seeking. I would like to see something like that without taking from the game as is. That would be fine. As to it being done that way, it all depends on the continued interest. The easiest solution is a newer game incorporating all of these features of SPWAW and much more in a new designed for Windows format. That could happen too. We are always open to suggestions. We want what the gamers want, all over the world, because we are gamers too :D Wild Bill



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